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Leaving Islam/ telling my family I'm athiest? watch

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    (Original post by QE2)
    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Even if there was a true religion which existed (from the perspective of the current irreligious), there would always be something to call 'convenient' or complain about, and even if God decended from the sky, skeptics like you and Qe2 would probably say "this isn't God, it's just a created superior life form that we must research"...
    If what you are saying is that I will always favour the most reasonable explanation for something, then you are correct.

    If you are claiming that Islam is the most reasonable explanation for the way the universe is, then I (and 75% of the world's population) disagree. Not to mention nearly 100% of the world's foremost physicists, biologists and chemists.

    How do you explain the fact that almost every leading scientist in the world rejects Islam? What is it that you know that they don't, and why are you not able to convince them?
    Not just leading scientists but also every leading philosopher, since the user invoked the discipline in the first page:

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Philosophically ponder and you will realise that science will never realistically explain where the Universe came from, even from (unsatisfactory) theories, and God is probable to exist; arrogant New Atheists feel that people use God as a miracle answer to the question of the universe, however it is the most logical answer, and based upon this, as much as it displeases many, religion actually makes sense and provides moral, social, psychological and spiritual order in people and society much to its benefit.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    My comment doesn't depend on Muhammad being insincere. In my view it would still apply even if he truly believed what he said. He would still proclaim those who disagreed with him as losers and would obviously see the massive advantages to his cause by doing so, even if he still believed that his revelations were genuine.

    Speaking of massive assumptions, you have made the biggest of them all by assuming he was sincere based on his own writings, i.e. Quran. Again, it doesn't take a genius to work out that intelligent individuals knew just how powerful the notion that God is on their side could be to forward their cause. And thus lying by claiming to be sincere would be in their best interests. As you take his words as Gospel, you are taking him at face value without being able to objectively prove, one way or the other, that he was sincere.
    If he was sincere, then he would not be proclaiming things of his own will or desires, therefore the only advantages he would see would be after proclaiming what he was inspired to say; if he said anything of his own free will/him deciding what to say, then he would not be sincere in giving revelation - so to clarify my point, imagine if I advised you to be nice to your neighbours. This advice is thought out before hand, and I can be giving it sincerely to you; this is not akin to sincere revelation/inspiration. If I was to then out of a feeling of compulsion and immediate (not preconceived) inspiration to tell you to be nice your neighbours, then that is sincere inspiration, not sincere advice, so sincere advise is thought out before hand with the benefits already in mind, whereas with sincere inspiration the benefit of saying be nice to your neighbours is realised after saying the statement.
    Based on this reasoning, it would be illogical to say that he said all of these things for his own person convenience (if we assume he was sincere).

    We use the hadith and seerah to prove he was sincere; skeptical nubs will obviously say "but they could have lied about him because it would benefit their own position"; this then means that every Muslim from the first to the last is having their sincerity questioned, so it's no longer a matter of one man being sincere, it's now a conspiracy that was hatched by the first generation of Muslims with Muhammad to control Arabia, so the claims get wilder and lack more substantial evidence to support these conspiracy theories.
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    (Original post by eoe)
    Non Muslims can also go to Jahnna. Secondly, you can never judge. Allah might forgive her on judgement day.
    Considering the amount of hate and ignorance that exists in the muslim community, no wonder so many people are leaving Islam

    btw I am muslim
    My god you should be given a prize for being able to make so many errors just in these few lines. I can write a book pointing out your mistakes and sorry to say but your utter Ignorance of islam.

    It is haram(forbidden) for non muslims to go to jannah as allah says:

    "...Indeed he who associates partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Jannah (Paradise) for him, and the Fire (of Hell) will be his abode ."[Al-Maaida 5:72]


    “Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’aan and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikoon will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures”[al-Bayyinah 98:6] No this verses is not out of context I have memorised the entire surah and if you want I you can check the rest of the surah it very much in context.There are many more verses but I chose this one to make it short.And about forgiving in the day of judgement. My god I dont even know where to start in almost every chapter allah talks about how the disbelivers will pay in the day of judgement.


    Allaah sent Messengers to every nation, that they might worship Him and shun false deities. The last nation is this ummah, and the last Messenger is Muhammad (peace be upon him). Allaah sent him for the whole of mankind, the entire world, and thus abrogated the previous laws and made this religion the best and most perfect and complete. Hence it is obligatory for everyone to enter this religion, for Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
    "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

    These verses summarise the islamic viewpoint on the fate of disbelivers in hereafter.

    These verses are the last few verses from the end of surah kahf.

    Say, [O Muhammad], "Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?

    [They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work.

    Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance."

    I tried to make it as short as possible.but as I said an entire book can be written just summarising your mistakes.

    If non muslims will to heaven then why be a muslim?

    Why pray five times a day?. When you go in by drinking beer and fornicating.

    Your statements make no sense logically nor do have any islamic basis.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Your basic premise is that Muhammad (saw) lacked sincerity in his mission; he was offered position of power, wealth, etc, yet he refused it, and he was beaten, abused, tormented, attempts made on his life, and this was even before he even left Mecca for Madinah, still only having a small following of oppressed believers who kept to themselves. So in your belief, he was a person who lacked sincerity and just wanted to become a leader and get what he wants, so to get what he wanted he preached about God, charity, righteousness? That's obsurred, and you have little evidence to support that massive assumption.
    So people who develop a new ideology, attempt to spread it and suffer when it comes into conflict with the establishment, must be working on divine instruction.

    Are you claiming that no one is prepared to suffer in order to achieve their ultimate goal? Really? Are you completely unaware of history and the world around you?

    The point isn't that he lacked sincerity. It is that his ideology was not from divine revelation. Who knows, he may even have genuinely believed that he was acting as god's mouthpiece - others certainly have, the brain is a strange animal.

    However, simply saying "there will be people who oppose me, but they will be wrong" does not prove that those people opposing him are wrong, only that he knew that some people would not believe him. He's hardly going to say that they are right, is he?
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    (Original post by Romulus Augustus)
    My god you should be given a prize for being able to make so many errors just in these few lines. I can write a book pointing out your mistakes and sorry to say but your utter Ignorance of islam.

    It is haram(forbidden) for non muslims to go to jannah as allah says:

    "...Indeed he who associates partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Jannah (Paradise) for him, and the Fire (of Hell) will be his abode ."[Al-Maaida 5:72]


    “Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’aan and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikoon will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures”[al-Bayyinah 98:6] No this verses is not out of context I have memorised the entire surah and if you want I you can check the rest of the surah it very much in context.There are many more verses but I chose this one to make it short.And about forgiving in the day of judgement. My god I dont even know where to start in almost every chapter allah talks about how the disbelivers will pay in the day of judgement.


    Allaah sent Messengers to every nation, that they might worship Him and shun false deities. The last nation is this ummah, and the last Messenger is Muhammad (peace be upon him). Allaah sent him for the whole of mankind, the entire world, and thus abrogated the previous laws and made this religion the best and most perfect and complete. Hence it is obligatory for everyone to enter this religion, for Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
    "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

    These verses summarise the islamic viewpoint on the fate of disbelivers in hereafter.

    These verses are the last few verses from the end of surah kahf.

    Say, [O Muhammad], "Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?

    [They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work.

    Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance."

    I tried to make it as short as possible.but as I said an entire book can be written just summarising your mistakes.

    If non muslims will to heaven then why be a muslim?

    Why pray five times a day?. When you go in by drinking beer and fornicating.

    Your statements make no sense logically nor do have any islamic basis.
    I think he is Ahmadi...
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    It's not possible to argue with muslims, don't bother, they have no logic so logical arguments don't work.
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    Im muslim but i guess congrats for your decision.

    I can't understand why some muslims have problems with this. I mean its not the end of the world. And there are literally too many muslims right now. Just look at the Jews. 14 million and yet arguably the most politically influential and economically powerful people in the world. Heck, they even have a fascist(not a bad thing really) state with a rightwing political establishment.

    It's the quality of a believer, NOT the quantity that's important. So what if a few thousand(or even hundred thousand) do leave? What's the big deal? Muslims have more important problems to deal with than busying themselves with petty internet debates.
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    And no im not an "antisemite". In fact, i really kind of admire how jews manage to keep hold of their 'jewish' identity against all odds. They are indeed God's chosen people.
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    You talked about the need to obliterate cultural practices from Islam and take Muslims back to a pure Islam. You're basically advocating Islamic fundamentalism (whereby only the pure fundamentals of Islam guide and direct Muslims' (and by implication society's behaviour)

    This is what Saudi Arabia does with it's destruction of historical place and graves of Mohammad's family and companions (to stop the "cultural" practice of people visiting them, valuing them, making prayers whilst at them)

    It is also what ISIS do when they cleanse all "impurities" from Iraq and Syria, such as the "cultural practice" of Muslims taking Christians as friends, such as the preservation of pre-Abrahamic cultural relics and antiquities, such as a general "culture" of tolerance of alcohol consumption, etc etc.


    And out of interest, what are ISIS doing which are not in accordance with Islam?



    Why not? Are you not open minded?

    when I meant cultural I meant stuff like FGM because muslims do this mostly in Africa because its part of their African culture and this is totally against islam.
    islam does not prohibit muslims from making Christians friends as long as u know youre place and beliefs
    ISIS kill innocent people and do disgusting things like teaching children intolerance and how to use guns and this IS NOT ISLAM . this is not in accordance to islam and also world domination which they seem obsessed about is not part of islam either
    I wont leave islam not because I'm not open minded (which is a silly argument by the way) I wont leave it because I am proud to be a Muslim, i believe strongly in my faith and beliefs and I also feel that it is the whole truth and I find no fault or flaw in it regardless of what people say
    would you call me narrow minded because I believe in a religion that has the perfect morals for me?? that teaches me about humanity? that teaches me to be human??
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    (Original post by Salx.x)
    I come from a fairly liberal Muslim family in London. I don't wear Hijab and I don't pray. My family aren't bad people, but they really do have high expectations for me. My mum says everyday that she knows I'll be great and that she prays everyday that I'll be successful. My siblings are more the issue though, they also have high expectations and have recently become more practising. I know I should wait till I'm old enough to move out (I'm still in school), but it's been a few weeks since I've come to realise of my atheism and I'm already going crazy. I have studied Islam in depth and there's many things I believe are wrong and disagree with. I'm going to ask you not to post any Qur'an verses, even though I know someone will. What can I do to prepare myself to tell them I'm atheist? And how should I tell them? I can already see what my life is going to be if I don't leave Islam soon. I'll only carry on living my miserable life, doing things I don't believe and passing those beliefs to my children who'll have to live the miserable life I did. I respect Islam and Muslims, but I really do have strong views about things on the dark side of religion that everyone seems to overlook. I got into a really heated argument once with a friend who said that being gay is a choice because it says that nobody is born gay in the Quran. I have my own morals and I don't need religion to keep me in place.
    Has anyone else ever left Islam, and if so how did your family react?
    Maybe you don't actually need to tell them at all. You're from a liberal family so there isn't an expectation that you spend every waking hour praying or at the mosque and wearing Hijab. So, why not simply "keep the peace" and just go along with it in a minimalist way? Probably not worth upsetting your mum and dad.
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    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    when I meant cultural I meant stuff like FGM because muslims do this mostly in Africa because its part of their African culture and this is totally against islam.
    FGM is totally against Islam? Sure about that?
    http://islamqa.info/en/60314
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    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    when I meant cultural I meant stuff like FGM because muslims do this mostly in Africa because its part of their African culture and this is totally against islam.
    What you mean FGM being cultural. It's Islamic

    Muslim (349) narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a man sits between the four parts (arms and legs of his wife) and the two circumcised parts meet, then ghusl is obligatory.”

    Abu Dawood (5271) narrated from Umm ‘Atiyyah al-Ansaariyyah that a woman used to do circumcisions in Madeenah and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” But the scholars differed concerning this hadeeth.


    So far from being against Islam, it is endorsed by Islam.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    islam does not prohibit muslims from making Christians friends as long as u know youre place and beliefs
    Of course it does

    Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    ISIS kill innocent people
    The word "innocent" means something very different in Islam

    Not-innocent (guilt) people are people who are not Muslim and refuse to convert or pay jizya when demanded by Islamic authorities. There people must be killed

    Quran 9:29 - Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    In fact Islam would consider all of the following not-innocent (guilty) and needing to be killed; apostates/those who leave Islam, homosexuals, pagans, those who set up partners with Allah, those who distort Islam. That's why ISIS are on a killing spree, because Islam has sanctioned it, and in fact orders it.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    and do disgusting things like teaching children intolerance
    Well just teaching your children Islam and exposing them to the Qur'an is doing something "disgusting" then in your opinion, since Islam and the Qur'an is full of intolerance.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    and how to use guns and this IS NOT ISLAM
    The Qur'an is filled with reference to fighting and violence, and the duty of all Muslims to engage. So ISIS are just preparing the children for life as a Muslim adult. All very Islamic.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    this is not in accordance to islam and also world domination which they seem obsessed about is not part of islam either
    It's exactly what the Qur'an is telling them to do

    Qur'an (8:39) - “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    I wont leave islam not because I'm not open minded (which is a silly argument by the way)
    But would you consider leaving? I mean do you consider that there is a possibility that Islam might be incorrect?

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    I wont leave it because I am proud to be a Muslim,
    When did pride stop being a sin in Islam?

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    i believe strongly in my faith and beliefs and I also feel that it is the whole truth and I find no fault or flaw in it regardless of what people say
    We'll see about that. From your posts you know extremely little about Islam.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    would you call me narrow minded because I believe in a religion that has the perfect morals for me?? that teaches me about humanity? that teaches me to be human??
    No, but since Islam is none of these, it's not relevant to your argument
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    (Original post by farhiyaserar)
    there is no hate...
    Of course there is hate. Someone must have a huge amount of hate to believe than another human being deserves to be tortured with fire and boiling oil for eternity.

    (Original post by farhiyaserar)
    the main thing about Islam is believing in Allah, there no good that can out weigh the fact that you dont believe in Allah, except if Allah chooses so.
    This is a rule that your Allah has decided. He doesn't have to set this rule, he chooses to have the rule and punish those that break it. Even though deep down you realise that breaking this rule is harmless to anybody and harmless to your Allah. And breaking this rule leads to the most unimaginable torture for eternity according to your Allah.

    (Original post by farhiyaserar)
    that man will go to heaven because he has a clean a slate. all his past sins are forgiven so they are not taken into consideration...
    And you think that is justice? After all he is al-'Adl, the most 'just' (not withstanding the fact that someone cannot be both most just and most merciful at the same time, since they are contradictory attributes)

    (Original post by farhiyaserar)
    thats why Allah is ar-rahim: he forgives all sins except shirk-which is not believing in allah. its really simple
    Even you can see that there is no mercy in eternally torturing someone (in effect showing them no mercy, thus annulling the claim of being "most merciful").

    I was reading a report the other day about a Syrian who survived the torture chambers of the Syrian Mukhabarat. He talked a lot about what the officers would do to captives, how much he would cry and beg and how much he could hear others crying and begging. He said the more merciful officers would torture their captors until their were crying and begging, but they would eventually have mercy on them and end their lives. He said the officer that tortured him showed no mercy, subjecting him to the most horrible torture for months on end, refusing to end his life when he begged for it. He only got free when rebels freed the area. Why this is important is that is shows that the fact that your Allah tortures people forever means he clearly has no mercy whatsoever; he is like the Syrian Mukhabarat Officer he carries on torturing even when the captive is begging to be killed.
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    (Original post by Cobalt_)
    Oh god. You may be doing the wrong course.

    And you stated, "There is no gay gene" or something to that extent, so yes you did.
    If you say so.
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    I don't hate Muslims. Many people very close to me are Muslim.

    What I am doing is pointing out to you that Islam is a false superstition that is obviously invented by men. It's for your benefit that you realise this, since when you step out of Islam you will receive a rush of freedom from escaping from being a slave to irrationality and made up bigotry (i.e Islam)
    No thanks, I dont need such kind of indpendence...
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    No thanks, I dont need such kind of indpendence...
    My man, if you really are a muslim, you should know by now that muslims aren't supposed to participate in nonsensical quarrels/arguments/"debates".

    Either way, as i stated before, there's nothing to be sad about a half/"liberal" muslim leaving islam. That's just a statistical inevitability. Wassalam.
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    What you mean FGM being cultural. It's Islamic

    Muslim (349) narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a man sits between the four parts (arms and legs of his wife) and the two circumcised parts meet, then ghusl is obligatory.”

    Abu Dawood (5271) narrated from Umm ‘Atiyyah al-Ansaariyyah that a woman used to do circumcisions in Madeenah and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” But the scholars differed concerning this hadeeth.

    So far from being against Islam, it is endorsed by Islam.



    Of course it does

    Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."



    The word "innocent" means something very different in Islam

    Not-innocent (guilt) people are people who are not Muslim and refuse to convert or pay jizya when demanded by Islamic authorities. There people must be killed

    Quran 9:29 - Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    In fact Islam would consider all of the following not-innocent (guilty) and needing to be killed; apostates/those who leave Islam, homosexuals, pagans, those who set up partners with Allah, those who distort Islam. That's why ISIS are on a killing spree, because Islam has sanctioned it, and in fact orders it.



    Well just teaching your children Islam and exposing them to the Qur'an is doing something "disgusting" then in your opinion, since Islam and the Qur'an is full of intolerance.



    The Qur'an is filled with reference to fighting and violence, and the duty of all Muslims to engage. So ISIS are just preparing the children for life as a Muslim adult. All very Islamic.



    It's exactly what the Qur'an is telling them to do

    Qur'an (8:39) - “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”



    But would you consider leaving? I mean do you consider that there is a possibility that Islam might be incorrect?



    When did pride stop being a sin in Islam?



    We'll see about that. From your posts you know extremely little about Islam.



    No, but since Islam is none of these, it's not relevant to your argument








    you seem to have loads of time on your hands which I don't and:
    "the best answer to a ignorant person is silence"
    so although I have answers to everything you've said I aint gonna bother cause you don't seem to be listening but anyway I love my religion and for your information I'm the muslim here (unless u are although u don't sound it) and since I'm practising I do know about my religion
    also you cant just quote from he quraan for your own purposes and when it suits u and ignore the time place and context
    in addition you believe what you think is right and I believe in what I think is right: no point arguing about something were never gonna reach an agreement about anyway
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    (Original post by Salx.x)
    x
    i know exactly how you feel...i feel the same way as you, although not an atheist per-say, but in regards to islam and there being a god and angels and stuff like that; i kinda smell bull****...i started having these thoughts around the time i went to uni and my sister who just started college is already down the same road i am whereas our brother (middle child) is the complete opposite of us two...i still haven't told them anything and im 24 now and neither has my sister and tbh i dont even know if i will ever let them know, its such a taboo subject in islam of someone actually leaving the religion and you have chances that all your family will cut their ties with you because of that...i can't give you advice on what to do or what not to do as i don't really know much about you or your family but do have a look at these links below, might help you out a bit...all the best

    Link 1
    Link 2
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    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    you seem to have loads of time on your hands which I don't and:
    You don't have time to research and defend your religion? Good to hear it isn't important for you.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    "the best answer to a ignorant person is silence"
    Show me where I have shown ignorance. If you can't, then you are basically resorting to lying and slander, which takes you further from Islam than you already are.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    so although I have answers to everything you've said
    No you don't.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    I aint gonna bother cause you don't seem to be listening but anyway I love my religion and for your information I'm the muslim here (unless u are although u don't sound it) and since I'm practising I do know about my religion
    Your posts have shown you don't know much about the basics of your religion. It is you who is refusing to listen, not other people.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    also you cant just quote from he quraan for your own purposes and when it suits u and ignore the time place and context
    If you say the teachings of the Qur'an are only for a historical context, you are saying they are not relevant to today. This statement takes you even further from Islam.

    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    in addition you believe what you think is right and I believe in what I think is right: no point arguing about something were never gonna reach an agreement about anyway
    Show me where I am wrong and that Islam is the truth and I will take my Shahada. I'm open minded and I'm willing to change my views when presented with evidence. Are you willing to change your views and leave Islam if presented with appropriate evidence? If not, then it means your mind is closed.
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    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    you seem to have loads of time on your hands which I don't and:
    "the best answer to a ignorant person is silence"
    so although I have answers to everything you've said I aint gonna bother cause you don't seem to be listening but anyway I love my religion and for your information I'm the muslim here (unless u are although u don't sound it) and since I'm practising I do know about my religion
    also you cant just quote from he quraan for your own purposes and when it suits u and ignore the time place and context
    in addition you believe what you think is right and I believe in what I think is right: no point arguing about something were never gonna reach an agreement about anyway
    What did he say that was 'ignorant'? He quoted extensively from Islamic scripture to prove that your claim 'FGM has nothing to do with Islam' is completely wrong. It's entirely obvious that you have no response, that you've realised you were wrong but can't admit it, that your oh-so-perfect wonderful religion that you love so much does indeed permit the mutilation of children's genitals, so you're just flouncing off the thread in indignant rage. If you think you have answers to his points, why not provide them?

    Can you explain why a perfect divinely revealed book which is meant to provide perfect, objective, divine guidance for all people at all times in all places needs 'time place and context' in order to be quoted and used correctly? Isn't the quran meant for everyone? Why then are you so furious at someone 'using it for his own purposes'?

    When you say ''I believe what I think is right'. are you now admitting that Islam does indeed permit (and even encourage) FGM, and do you think that this is right?
 
 
 
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