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More than half of British Muslims say homosexuality should be outlawed watch

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    (Original post by BenC1997)
    The survey wasn't carried out by the Daily Fail though. Believe me, I'd take it with more than a pinch of salt if it had been.

    Ofcourse the survey isn't above criticism, but the way it has been conducted would suggest it's reliable and accurate.

    Well, hopefully the younger generation do not carry the same views as their parents, though I fear that' s a faint hope frankly.
    Firstly, do you seriously, honestly think the results of the survey are massively out?

    Secondly - regarding the bolded - the opposite to what you seem to be implying is the case. The younger generation are more staunch than the older. Probably because their elders - who mostly came to this country from places like Pakistan/Bangladesh etc - realise what it's like living in a backwards place, while the youngsters don't seem to know when they're born and are trying to turn this place into the backwards idiotfest their parents left behind to live somewhere good.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Firstly, do you seriously, honestly think the results of the survey are massively out?

    Secondly - regarding the bolded - the opposite to what you seem to be implying is the case. The younger generation are more staunch than the older. Probably because their elders - who mostly came to this country from places like Pakistan/Bangladesh etc - realise what it's like living in a backwards place, while the youngsters don't seem to know when they're born and are trying to turn this place into the backwards idiotfest their parents left behind to live somewhere good.
    Actually, I think I'm agreeingwith you on both counts and don't believe I've indicated otherwise.

    I defended the survey originally and did the same in the part you quoted, so no, I don't think it's massively out at all. I said I'd be more sceptical if the Daily mail did the survey, but they didn't, so I'm not. I said it was reliable and accurate in fact.

    Also, I did say it's a 'faint hope' which would indicate I'm not exactly optimistic. I'm under no illusions that young Muslims are on some liberal crusade, I'm not that naive.

    Apologies if I implied anything else, though frankly I don't think I did.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    I'm not arguing against homosexuality.

    But what I am saying is, if someone believes another is committing to an immoral act in their own view (e.g. religiously) but doesn't discriminate them and respects their persona up to an extent that they befriend one another, then I don't see why it should be considered homophobia. For example, there are Muslims that will befriend Christians despite Christians committing an Islamic sin (e.g. believing in a son of God). And of course vice versa: the Muslims may be committing sins under laws of Christianity. But just because there are differences among each of these communities, there's no discrimination really involved.
    But fundermentalis such belief is a prejudice one and from prejudice discrimination comes.

    An example. Let's say you are a black person and you move into a new neighbourhood that is overwhelmingly white. At your local town meeting a member of this neighbourhood declares quite bluntly a belief in a collection of racist positions. Now wouldn't something like that make you feel unsafe, make you worry that said prejudices would follow into actual discrimination (small or large), now imagine that but with a majority of the neighbourhood supporting this racist and his opinions.
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    (Original post by digistar_100)
    It might be accepted in atheism which has no ultimate law maker and you act on whatever desire you wish to fulfil but it will never be accepted in Islam. And pushing young Muslims to deviate and purposefuly blur the ones about what is acceptable and not won't get you far either.

    As for the article it shouldn't be surprise to anyone nor a threat. We aren't suddenly going to take control of the country overnight, these are passive opinions.
    It probably will happen eventually to be honest, like with the softening of Christianity. If Islam wants long-term and practical, functional survival in the West, especially as we're getting much more progressive and accepting by the decade, then it will be forced to adapt or die out. There are no two ways about it.
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    (Original post by garfeeled)
    But fundermentalis such belief is a prejudice one and from prejudice discrimination comes.

    An example. Let's say you are a black person and you move into a new neighbourhood that is overwhelmingly white. At your local town meeting a member of this neighbourhood declares quite bluntly a belief in a collection of racist positions. Now wouldn't something like that make you feel unsafe, make you worry that said prejudices would follow into actual discrimination (small or large), now imagine that but with a majority of the neighbourhood supporting this racist and his opinions.
    Hmmm... I don't think it is prejudice. I don't really have to have a judgmental view of an individual or cause any sort of mental or physical harm because they are homosexual, despite believing the homosexual act is a sin. Of course, like in that example you use, these beliefs can give rise to such views but it's unnecessary. Overall, my opinion is, if one is friendly to a homosexual without causing them any mental (e.g. prejudiced, judgmental views) or physical harm, it's not considered homophobia. Each to their own I guess.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Hmmm... I don't think it is prejudice. I don't really have to have a judgmental view of an individual or cause any sort of mental or physical harm because they are homosexual, despite believing the homosexual act is a sin. Of course, like in that example you use, these beliefs can give rise to such views but it's unnecessary. Overall, my opinion is, if one is friendly to a homosexual without causing them any mental (e.g. prejudiced, judgmental views) or physical harm, it's not considered homophobia. Each to their own I guess.
    What about indirect acts: supporting a homophobic preacher, handing out homophobic leaflets, publicly preaching that homosexuals are wrong and so on? Do you consider those homophobic or is it just homophobic, in your view, to directly target an individual homosexual. I'm just curious.
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    http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...-terrifies-me/
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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    What about indirect acts: supporting a homophobic preacher, handing out homophobic leaflets, publicly preaching that homosexuals are wrong and so on? Do you consider those homophobic or is it just homophobic, in your view, to directly target an individual homosexual. I'm just curious.
    Ummm... well if the person is blatantly homophobic then I wouldn't support them. Same with leaflets. Publicly, meaning in specified Islamic talks and hired events, I think preaching the sin of the act of homosexuality, and advising to people what to do in these difficult situations within religion is fine.
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    I'm actually kinda worried now if I said the wrong thing. I mean no offense to anyone.
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    "Islam has a proud history of tolerance " - Barack Hussein Obama
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Hmmm... I don't think it is prejudice. I don't really have to have a judgmental view of an individual or cause any sort of mental or physical harm because they are homosexual, despite believing the homosexual act is a sin. Of course, like in that example you use, these beliefs can give rise to such views but it's unnecessary. Overall, my opinion is, if one is friendly to a homosexual without causing them any mental (e.g. prejudiced, judgmental views) or physical harm, it's not considered homophobia. Each to their own I guess.
    But as you have said beliefs can give rise to views which in turn give rise to actions. I think we can both agree that the only reason a person commits a homophobic action is if they have negative views and beliefs in regards to homosexuality.

    That's the point yes there may be some who hold such beliefs and they may not let that warp their actions but ultimately that worry is justified.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    the "reislamisation" of youth in Western Europe is, in my view, a real phenomenon. It corresponds to a search for identity among the second/third generation immigrants.

    As such trends usually go, this is probably bound to reverse at some moment , but when exactly , it's difficult to tell. So much depends from developments in the economy, the political system, world politics etc
    I think it in part comes from the degeneration of British culture, which has been done in a way to try to help immigrants feel more welcome, which has meant there has been no strong British culture to latch on to. This has caused problems both for young Muslim people and young English people.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    It probably will happen eventually to be honest, like with the softening of Christianity. If Islam wants long-term and practical, functional survival in the West, especially as we're getting much more progressive and accepting by the decade, then it will be forced to adapt or die out. There are no two ways about it.

    How is it going to die out ? We can be pretty sure that a reformation is not about to happen, so i am curious how you came to the notion that Islam would die out.
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    (Original post by The Angry Stoic)
    I think it in part comes from the degeneration of British culture, which has been done in a way to try to help immigrants feel more welcome, which has meant there has been no strong British culture to latch on to. This has caused problems both for young Muslim people and young English people.
    This was never a problem for any of the immigrants that came before, or that come currently. I live beside and have shared accommodation with many different demographics, most fit in perfectly regardless of culture. My flatmate loves chicken feet............some sort of Chinese delicacy I guess :dontknow:

    My other flatmate is Spanish, barely speaks a word of English. Kinda sexy, but she fits in well and is really fun.

    I've had other flatmates from all over.

    Only two groups ever show any sort of endemic problems 'adapting', Africans and Arabs. Lets be honest, it simply is the case. the stats reflect this and everyone I have ever met has been a walking talking testament to the fact.
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    (Original post by HanSoloLuck)
    This was never a problem for any of the immigrants that came before, or that come currently. I live beside and have shared accommodation with many different demographics, most fit in perfectly regardless of culture. My flatmate loves chicken feet............some sort of Chinese delicacy I guess :dontknow:

    My other flatmate is Spanish, barely speaks a word of English. Kinda sexy, but she fits in well and is really fun.

    I've had other flatmates from all over.

    Only two groups ever show any sort of endemic problems 'adapting', Africans and Arabs. Lets be honest, it simply is the case. the stats reflect this and everyone I have ever met has been a walking talking testament to the fact.
    I don't think any excuses were made for, or any attmemps to denigrate, British culture for previous waves of immigrants.
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    (Original post by HanSoloLuck)
    This was never a problem for any of the immigrants that came before, or that come currently. I live beside and have shared accommodation with many different demographics, most fit in perfectly regardless of culture. My flatmate loves chicken feet............some sort of Chinese delicacy I guess :dontknow:

    My other flatmate is Spanish, barely speaks a word of English. Kinda sexy, but she fits in well and is really fun.

    I've had other flatmates from all over.

    Only two groups ever show any sort of endemic problems 'adapting', Africans and Arabs. Lets be honest, it simply is the case. the stats reflect this and everyone I have ever met has been a walking talking testament to the fact.
    Yup, this. Most immigrants either keep to themselves or integrate. It's only people from Islamic countries who feel it is fair to show zero respect for our values.
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    (Original post by The Angry Stoic)
    I think it in part comes from the degeneration of British culture, which has been done in a way to try to help immigrants feel more welcome, which has meant there has been no strong British culture to latch on to. This has caused problems both for young Muslim people and young English people.
    in the last 30 years or so, the "West" has engaged in self-analysis and self-criticism. Our imperial past, our racism, our political and economic hegemony have been deeply and critically analysed by our own scholars and media

    this has been taken up enthusiastically, and interpreted as a sign of weakness, by those who oppose our values - including, as we mentioned, many second- third-generation immigrants

    And yet, this is a sign of force, not of weakness : and it has allowed us to build better societies and to redefine our role in the world

    However, it is obvious that our self-criticism should not blind us about the failures of other models of society, and about their own shady history .... and I would say that, in comparison, we are faring not badly at all

    best
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    No, I myself don't think gay marriage should be a thing.

    I don't hate conservativism. You're probably some 15 year old who watched Daily Politics once and thought, "I know what I can do to sound so cool and intelligent - be interested in politics as a kid, yaaaaaaay"

    Lmfao. Go away pal.
    There you go again with ad hominem. You sound like a brat.
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    (Original post by digistar_100)
    It might be accepted in atheism which has no ultimate law maker and you act on whatever desire you wish to fulfil
    Because atheists have no morals? :rolleyes:

    but it will never be accepted in Islam.
    And such views are the reason anti-Muslim bigotry is increasing. You are essentially saying "I'm not tolerant, I will never respect British values, I am close minded and will never change my views or opinions etc.." You are pretty much helping to legitimise far right groups and their ideology. Muslims who express views such as you have here, are morally culpable for all Muslims who get attacked and suffer anti-Muslim bigotry in the UK.
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    There you go again with ad hominem. You sound like a brat.
    And you sound pompous, point?
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Because atheists have no morals? :rolleyes:



    And such views are the reason anti-Muslim bigotry is increasing. You are essentially saying "I'm not tolerant, I will never respect British values, I am close minded and will never change my views or opinions etc.." You are pretty much helping to legitimise far right groups and their ideology. Muslims who express views such as you have here, are morally culpable for all Muslims who get attacked and suffer anti-Muslim bigotry in the UK.
    You are talking as if its a personal opinion. Homosexuality is explicitly forbidden and will never be accepted in Islaam, that is a fact and any so called liberal or "moderate" muslims who take any stance other than that should reevaluate their faith.
 
 
 
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