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Ask Her Majesty's Government – Parliament XXIII


    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Petros respected my opinion and despite trying to convince me otherwise accepted my position, to me that is the making of a good leader rather than someone who doesn't respect people's opinions and demands they vote against their beliefs.
    You are now turning on your leader, but if Petros was a good leader he would respect your opinions, then inform Life_peer the bill should be a Conservative bill because Liberal MPs disagree with the bill: Petros has failed to convey your beliefs to the Conservatives.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    My honour goes beyond supporting this bill, you made this a choice between standing for what I believe in or supporting this bill, I chose to stand for my beliefs and that to me is more important than any position you could offer.
    Perhaps your honour could steer you towards writing a few bills yourself rather than rejecting other people's effort when our output is being criticised as low in quantity. What is the point of having parties when everyone wants to act as an independent? I say if you're not prepared to take one for the team and support ****ing government policy approved by the leader of your party, you should leave and become independent.
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    Right, hard as it may be to believe, I actually have a life. I honestly have no idea of everything that's been said and that's happened since this morning and I'm honestly not in a position to deal with it right now.

    I will deal with everything that has been said tomorrow afternoon when I'm home and able to get onto my PC.


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    (Original post by Airmed)
    Oh, jog on, Hazzer. He has a life away from this place, unlike some.
    You mean in the other place? :awesome:

    (Original post by Airmed)
    Oh, jog on, Hazzer. He has a life away from this place, unlike some.
    Calm down, it is not Hazzer's fault your government is in disarray over rebel Liberal MPs not supporting government policy, the Liberal leader not doing the courteous thing by telling Life_peer, and Life_peer feeling the need to sack two Liberal MPs.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Calm down, it is not Hazzer's fault your government is in disarray over rebel Liberal MPs not supporting government policy, the Liberal leader not doing the courteous thing by telling Life_peer, and Life_peer feeling the need to sack two Liberal MPs.
    How is the travelling going?

    (Original post by Life_peer)
    You mean in the other place? :awesome:
    :rofl:
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    Is PetrosAC going to stand up for the beliefs of his MPs or is he such an incompetent leader that he would get down on his knees for LP? Why didn't he veto the bill and make it a Conservative bill given that he and many Liberal MPs don't support it? Is he just going to give up on liberal principles for the sake of being in government?
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    Right, I'm going to calm down as well. More than angry, I'm very disappointed by how selfish some party members can be. For me, the party has always been the priority. If something was chosen as party policy, I supported it or at least had the decency to abstain when it was completely against my beliefs, such as citizenship for people who simply aid our armed forces… Even when it didn't matter and I could have voted against it without influencing the result.

    Well, perhaps those ‘independent formations’ wouldn't be so bad after all if it meant people who refuse to be team players didn't contaminate parties which are all about collective effort…
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Right, hard as it may be to believe, I actually have a life. I honestly have no idea of everything that's been said and that's happened since this morning and I'm honestly not in a position to deal with it right now.

    I will deal with everything that has been said tomorrow afternoon when I'm home and able to get onto my PC.


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    Standard liberal response "oh, IRL," so is this your resignation as Liberal leader?

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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Right, I'm going to calm down as well. More than angry, I'm very disappointed by how selfish some party members can be. For me, the party has always been the priority. If something was chosen as party policy, I supported it or at least had the decency to abstain when it was completely against my beliefs, such as citizenship for people who simply aid our armed forces… Even when it didn't matter and I could have voted against it without influencing the result.

    Well, perhaps those ‘independent formations’ wouldn't be so bad after all if it meant people who refuse to be team players didn't contaminate parties which are all about collective effort…
    For all of the anger, I think you would still agree to another term with the Liberals, but wait for the vote on the budget, I believe more Liberals will vote against the budget to block it.
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    I'm surprised so many Liberal MPs abstained - they should have voted nay, it was a terribly illiberal bill!
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    I'm surprised so many Liberal MPs abstained - they should have voted nay, it was a terribly illiberal bill!
    Well, most liberals know how to be a government minister

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    (Original post by Unown Uzer)
    Is PetrosAC going to stand up for the beliefs of his MPs or is he such an incompetent leader that he would get down on his knees for LP? Why didn't he veto the bill and make it a Conservative bill given that he and many Liberal MPs don't support it? Is he just going to give up on liberal principles for the sake of being in government?
    Remember he's not really the one to be blamed here. Yes, he technically made a mistake, but it's not like his colleagues helped him not to make one. From what I know, few of them expressed their position before the bill was submitted and it's completely acceptable to believe that silence means assent. I use the same principle to promise Conservative support and we haven't had a single problem yet.

    The real problem are people who stay /relatively/ quiet and then cause trouble at the last minute.

    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    For all of the anger, I think you would still agree to another term with the Liberals, but wait for the vote on the budget, I believe more Liberals will vote against the budget to block it.
    We'll see. It's only our second disagreement and I don't blame the whole Liberal party just as I don't blame the whole UKIP. In fact, even my position towards yourself is practically neutral nowadays, though I think you're volatile and relatively dangerous to work with, to be honest.
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    Right, I'm not going to get drawn out into a long and lengthy debate.

    Basically, PetrosAC has been keeping me informed through off-site communication over what has been going on over the last couple of weeks due to a family wedding/settling into a new job/illness. He failed to point me to this Bill, which I wouldn't have voted aye to under any circumstances, losing my seat or w/e. Petros knows he done goofed and I still consider him a TSR friend, no hard feelings to anyone in the Liberals. Even mobbsy91 is just doing his job.

    However, I'm not going to be whipped on a bloody bill I don't believe in so suck it, fascists.

    Fight the power joecphillips!

    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Remember he's not really the one to be blamed here. Yes, he technically made a mistake, but it's not like his colleagues helped him not to make one. From what I know, few of them expressed their position before the bill was submitted and it's completely acceptable to believe that silence means assent. I use the same principle to promise Conservative support and we haven't had a single problem yet.

    The real problem are people who stay /relatively/ quiet and then cause trouble at the last minute.

    We'll see. It's only our second disagreement and I don't blame the whole Liberal party just as I don't blame the whole UKIP. In fact, even my position towards yourself is practically neutral nowadays, though I think you're volatile and relatively dangerous to work with, to be honest.
    The Liberal Party leadership undermined the government by not doing their job, if the Liberal leadership team did their job properly the rebel Liberal MPs would have been replaced in time to allow the bill to pass. This scandal is not about me, nor UKIP, but one thing I can be certain of is UKIP MPs would not have caused a defeat for the government, that applies if there is, or is not, an unpredictable, volatile leader at the helm; which I interpret as a compliment.

    JoeL1994 Refusing to be whipped on a bill you do not agree with could be argued as taking a principled, honourable, and strong position, however, that excuse cannot be used for you because you allowed yourself to be whipped on the Alternative Tax Act.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    The Liberal Party leadership undermined the government by not doing their job, if the Liberal leadership team did their job properly the rebel Liberal MPs would have been replaced in time to allow the bill to pass. This scandal is not about me, nor UKIP, but one thing I can be certain of is UKIP MPs would not have caused an embarrassing defeat for the government, that applies if there is, or is not, an unpredictable, volatile leader at the helm; which I interpret as a compliment.
    To be fair, I do believe you wouldn't do this. If I remember correctly, even neb fell in line when it mattered. Perhaps we should put the past behind us.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    JoeL1994 Refusing to be whipped on a bill you do not agree with could be argued as taking a principled, honourable, and strong position, however, that excuse cannot be used for you because you allowed yourself to be whipped on the Alternative Tax Act.
    I'm sorry, were you in the sub at the time, do you know what happened? I'd already changed my mind before the supposed whip took place after the bill had been justified to me.

    The whip PM'd us, aye, but there was no whipping involved.

    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    I'm sorry, were you in the sub at the time, do you know what happened? I'd already changed my mind before the supposed whip took place after the bill had been justified to me.

    The whip PM'd us, aye, but there was no whipping involved.
    You were against the original bill but then changed your mind to support the original bill, you then changed your mind to be against the bill in the forum but changed your mind again to support the failed amendment, after the amendment you changed you mind once again to be agaisnt it because you did not vote against repeal: that makes lots of sense.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    JoeL1994 and joecphillips are hereby dismissed with disgrace as Foreign Secretary and SoS for Health respectively for violating cabinet collective responsibility, blatantly ignoring repeated requests to support or at least abstain on government policy approved by the leader of their party or even engage in a conversation with the Chief Whip and the PM, ignoring debates, and their very low overall activity.

    In all my time here, I haven't seen a more outrageous betrayal of one's own party, its leader, and government. The political careers of their RL counterparts would be finished, but unfortunately these two have practically nothing to lose except for their honour, which is apparently worth nothing. Shame on them.

    They were notified beforehand and offered to resign in line with the constitutional convention, however they ignored that as well.

    The positions will stay vacant and the departments led by the closest SoS until further notice.

    cc PetrosAC Airmed mobbsy91 Saracen's Fez
    I'm so sorry you can't get your way all the time.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Standard liberal response "oh, IRL," so is this your resignation as Liberal leader?

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    For frack sake, don't publicly insult the leader of our coalition partners.

    And yes.. i felt the need to say that publicly. .
 
 
 
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Updated: October 27, 2016
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