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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Yeah cause a terrorist beheading a priest in a church in what is obviously a religiously-motivated attack is comparable with a shooting of an imam by a random Hispanic where we don't even know what the motive is yet and neither do you lol. Don't be stupid.
    They were both supported by an ideology, one hates Christians and another hates Muslims. It is clear and you will find out soon enough the motive and it will be exactly what I said it is. Just wait...
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    (Original post by Gman786)
    9/11 killed 1000s of people but the war on terror has killed a million people in iraq, pakistan, yemen, afghanistan.
    Oh dear, not this again.
    The vast majority of Muslims killed in the region have been killed by other Muslims in sectarian or political violence. It has been like this for centuries, and will probably continue in a similar vein. Yet we rarely hear of Muslims condemming Islam, they just bang on about "the west".
    The numbers of civilian dead from coalition airstrikes is small (excluding the Russians, who are indiscriminately bombing as a de facto ally of Assad in the civil war).
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Because none of those groups have been situated in a country that has been invaded and destroyed by failed western foreign policy and corrupt, evil regimes which barrel-bomb its own people.

    I feel like I am spoonfeeding the obvious here
    Neither have many of the people who go to them countries to join them groups? Also not every terrorist group formed because it was invaded or caused by western foreign policy. Also what about the non muslim people who are effected by the above.. why arent they out forming terrorist groups with Ideological goals that extend well beyond "Stop bombing this country western people" ?

    It all seems very obvious to you because you are not listening or grasping any of the numerous excellent arguments put to you.. you are just rejecting them and plowing through with what you believe.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Neither have many of the people who go to them countries to join them groups? Also not every terrorist group formed because it was invaded or caused by western foreign policy. Also what about the non muslim people who are effected by the above.. why arent they out forming terrorist groups with Ideological goals that extend well beyond "Stop bombing this country western people" ?

    It all seems very obvious to you because you are not listening or grasping any of the numerous excellent arguments put to you.. you are just rejecting them and plowing through with what you believe.
    You asked about why a radical group exists for Muslims, not why they are gaining sympathy of foreigners who then join them. So your response makes no sense.

    If you want to know why they are gaining sympathy, its because of isolated, malleable Muslims who are drawn in by their use of social media and propaganda. This malleability derives from them having hateful feelings, hateful feelings which are sourced from them being discriminated against because of their religion, among many other causes.

    Cry about how I'm not reading your response all you like, but you have just proven that you're doing the same lol
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    what you are describing is not 'islamaphobia' but plain and simple xenophobia and low level racism that has existed for generations. people should no directly question anothers personal belief in public - but then there are people that simply dont like others that different to themselves - that isnt specific to islamic ppl but anyone.
    however many people have already taken issue with islamic dogma that is not relative to 'personal beliefs' but in some way political - ie islamic slants on current political issues - land grabbing excercises around the wolrd and the assoicated terroris; ie in palestine and various land disputes with non muslims over most of africa, asia etc.
    Lectures about 'morality' in terms of how women shoudl dress, what should be eaten and drunk in public, how sexuality should be made public( or not made public) etc. the fundamental problem with islamic doctrines is that it was made to be olitical, not personal - hence why t causes clashes of society , not just in uk, but rest of eruope, america, africa, asia etc etc.
    very few muslims actively take a stance against political islam, they in general tactily support it - to go against such a movement in the islamic community would risk some sort of violent retribution.
    and again where you rightly critisize muslims being questioned about their personal belief - try standing up in a mosque and stopping the imam questioning the beleif of all the non-muslims mentioned in the quran - and see how the rest of the congregation react to you; would it be with moderate reason do you think?
    Your last point could easily be switched to someone standing up in a Church and questioning a priest on a Sunday morning? Don't you think?
    Also I would like to make clear the difference between culture and religion. I believe it is mostly culture of the Middle East and certain African regions which makes the people there especially critical i.e. sexist.

    All I am asking is that people stop attacking Muslims born and raised in the UK or USA because their culture is Western, not Middle Eastern. I am from Iran and I am the first to criticize Islam because I have seen the effects first hand. But I know that there is indeed a difference between a Muslim brought up in the USA and UK vs. Pakistan or Iraq. Muslims in the West are being humiliated and alienated and all I am asking is for people to stop the constant bashing and accusing all Muslims of being hateful. There are also many Christian countries and communities in Africa where women are seen to be less than men. It is primarily cultural not religious -in my opinion.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    You asked about why a radical group exists for Muslims, not why they are gaining sympathy of foreigners who then join them. So your response makes no sense.

    If you want to know why they are gaining sympathy, its because of isolated, malleable Muslims who are drawn in by their use of social media and propaganda. This malleability derives from them having hateful feelings, hateful feelings which are sourced from them being discriminated against because of their religion, among many other causes.

    Cry about how I'm not reading your response all you like, but you have just proven that you're doing the same lol
    Jesus.. these groups cannot sustain themselves without people joining them and funding them.

    Oh god i knew this was a mistake engaging you again, its truly mind blowing
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    (Original post by Chakede)
    both are nasty crimes as bad as each other - one i suppose one was directly influenced by the other though , theres no point skirting round that issue- increased prevalence of islamist groups and their propagandas will mean further backlashes on muslim community. all the more reason for islamic community to get a hold of their problems are fix things. i suppose police are hard pressed to keep up with all the attacks from the non muslim side - but these issues need to be tackled from both ends.
    I am merely pointing out the disparity in coverage between the two crimes. If you only read the comments and articles in the Daily Mail and the Sun you will see what I am talking about. I find it disgusting.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Jesus.. these groups cannot sustain themselves without people joining them and funding them.

    Oh god i knew this was a mistake engaging you again, its truly mind blowing
    :troll:

    welcome to my block list
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    (Original post by QE2)
    The imam was shot on the street. The priest was beheaded in his church. And the news coverage has been comprehensive for both.
    The Imam was dressed in traditional Islamic attire and was shot very close to a mosque. And I disagree on your last point, sorry. Both are disgusting, don't get me wrong, but people are quick to jump at the man who killed the priest and assume he was religiously motivated before anything has even been released about his motives, but when the man shot the Imam in NY, people got all ' no let's wait until the facts come out before assuming the Imam was attacked for being muslim'. They only want the facts when it fits in with their own beliefs.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    :troll:

    welcome to my block list
    Honestly, thats a relief. There is no hope for further fruitful discussion
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    (Original post by lahorizon)

    All I am asking is that people stop attacking Muslims born and raised in the UK or USA because their culture is Western, not Middle Eastern. I am from Iran and I am the first to criticize Islam because I have seen the effects first hand. But I know that there is indeed a difference between a Muslim brought up in the USA and UK vs. Pakistan or Iraq. Muslims in the West are being humiliated and alienated and all I am asking is for people to stop the constant bashing and accusing all Muslims of being hateful. There are also many Christian countries and communities in Africa where women are seen to be less than men. It is primarily cultural not religious -in my opinion.
    It's interesting you mention being from Iran - The mass exodus from Iran when the Shah was deposed is one of my go-to examples when debating this.

    We didn't have the same issues with integration, sexual assault, violence and extremism when hundreds of thousands of Persians fled their country - Iran was majority Muslim; This suggests it isn't Muslims who are the issue.

    As for racism, obviously with that poor kid in Milwaukee being shot in the neck because he was white and the literal hours of 'Get him! He's white!' and other stuff we can see on YouTube from the riots in Milwaukee, it isn't just an Imam being murdered or terrorism in our back yard: We are at a point where we are more balkanized than we have ever been.

    And the root cause needs to be identified.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)

    If you want to know why they are gaining sympathy, its because of isolated, malleable Muslims who are drawn in by their use of social media and propaganda.
    Why aren't isolated malleable Christians machine gunning cartoonists or driving trucks into pedestrians, screaming "Jesus is Lord?"

    Also, you cry tears for all the Muslims persecuted in western societies, the poor Muslim women who get their veils torn off, ya de ya.

    No-one defends that, but it is worthwhile putting it into perspective. Having your veil torn off is unpleasant but it isn't the same as being crucified or sold into sex slavery as is happening to Christians in the Muslim middle east.

    Or are you as ignorant of that as you seem to be about most other things?
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Why aren't isolated malleable Christians machine gunning cartoonists or driving trucks into pedestrians, screaming "Jesus is Lord?"

    Also, you cry tears for all the Muslims persecuted in western societies, the poor Muslim women who get their veils torn off, ya de ya.

    No-one defends that, but it is worthwhile putting it into perspective. Having your veil torn off is unpleasant but it isn't the same as being crucified or sold into sex slavery as is happening to Christians in the Muslim middle east.

    Or are you as ignorant of that as you seem to be about most other things?
    Because, as I explained, Christians do not have a militant group that advertises its extremism or legitimises radical views.

    Say cry again if it makes your argument feel more valid to you, though.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Its dumb to compare a 1500 year old scripture to a relatively recent novel.
    Mein Kampf is not a novel.

    One is a vague, ambiguous scripture which has evidently divided the Muslim community. The other is a modern autobiography which details problems that existed at the time, so it was relevant and relatable to the high nationalist, isolationist sentiment that was ripe in Europe in the 1930s.
    Not familiar with the concept of the analogy then?

    And I am completely and utterly for a ban on assault weapons and most other guns in the US, sorry to disappoint your tangential hypothesis.
    Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

    Islam doesn't kill people, people kill people.

    Work it out for yourself.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Because, as I explained, Christians do not have a militant group that advertises its extremism or legitimises radical views.

    Say cry again if it makes your argument feel more valid to you, though.
    No, it is because there are no legitimate theological reasons for such actions in Christianity.

    I know you are an expert on sharia and all, but even you can't deny the passages in the Koran which are used by Islamic State exist. They are Jihadis. Jihad is accepted Islamic doctrine. Used from the earliest times.

    Islam is a supremacist ideology spread by the sword. Islamic State go back to the pure origins of the religion.

    Being such an expert on Sharia, you already know that, obviously..

    And since there is no church hierarchy in Islam, no Pope or Archbishop of Canterbury to keep order, they can, and are used by Islamists to justify their actions.

    Who is to say that they are wrong in their interpretation and you are right?
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Because Christianity does not currently have a radical militant group which professes to create a worldwide caliphate. ISIL's success legitimises these hateful feelings, its why christian violence also increased during the KKK's days, these groups legitimise the negative thoughts of the average person. The same applies with donald trump, an authoritative figure who is suddenly saying 'its ok to hate other races/groups', its the same with ISIS, but far fewer are susceptible to it.

    Surely that's obvious?

    And yes it does, Muslims become radicalised sometimes because they isolate themselves from western culture. I've studied every single case of extremism leading to attacks since the Sydney siege, both of the Kouachi brothers were radicalised by being segregated in jail and being exposed to other radical individuals, other cases including Rezgui and the Nice attacker, and both Tunisian museum attackers (excluding the one who wasn't caught) show relatives/friends describing them as becoming isolated. One cause of this isolation is being hated on because of their faith.
    Oh so this is what's going on? You have been to the heart of Muslim communities. You have studied this.

    Now it all makes sense why you are so adamant and blind about your viewpoints and opinions.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Absolutely

    And think about it - if everyone converted to Islam, there'd be no need for terrorism.

    So Islam is the cure for terrorism!

    Checkmate islamophobes
    Muslims have been killing each other constantly since the death of Mo....even if one sect managed to wipe out the other they would probably still break off into other groups and start killing each other again.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    :troll:

    welcome to my block list
    ladidadida

    you block everyone who doesn't have the same opinion as you?

    By now I feel like your block list is the best detector of logic and reason within TSR users.
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    (Original post by ThatOldGuy)
    It's interesting you mention being from Iran - The mass exodus from Iran when the Shah was deposed is one of my go-to examples when debating this.

    We didn't have the same issues with integration, sexual assault, violence and extremism when hundreds of thousands of Persians fled their country - Iran was majority Muslim; This suggests it isn't Muslims who are the issue.

    As for racism, obviously with that poor kid in Milwaukee being shot in the neck because he was white and the literal hours of 'Get him! He's white!' and other stuff we can see on YouTube from the riots in Milwaukee, it isn't just an Imam being murdered or terrorism in our back yard: We are at a point where we are more balkanized than we have ever been.

    And the root cause needs to be identified.
    Well tbf and I may not be helping my own argument here, but the majority of people who left Iran after the Shah left, were Jewish or a minority. The muslims remained. But when muslim Iranians have gone abroad, they as far as I know, have hardly caused any trouble compared with South Asian Muslims, so I believe my point remains valid such that it is mostly culture and not religion. In South Asia they practice honour killings and in East Africa they practice FGM. People act like these are Muslim exclusive crimes but it really is regional.

    I agree with your last point, I am just sick of Rupert Murdoch and the hate he spreads everyday. I don't watch the news anymore because it really is disheartening.
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    Well tbf and I may not be helping my own argument here, but the majority of people who left Iran after the Shah left, were Jewish or a minority. The muslims remained. But when muslim Iranians have gone abroad, they as far as I know, have hardly caused any trouble compared with South Asian Muslims, so I believe my point remains valid such that it is mostly culture and not religion. In South Asia they practice honour killings and in East Africa they practice FGM. People act like these are Muslim exclusive crimes but it really is regional.
    I think that, in the Middle East & some parts of Asia especially, culture & religion are so intertwined that there's not going to be much disagreement between the two any more.

    It's the same with how, up until recently anyway, Europe's culture has been intertwined with Christianity. It's only perhaps the last 50 years that have seen a break away from that.

    Some times it does go deeper that religion - distrust between Saudi Arabia & Iran for instance is exacerbated by the opinion among some Persians that they're superior to Arabs.
 
 
 
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