Should women earn as much as men? Watch

m4n0ran
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#381
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#381
If the woman is not performing her job well then yes. As with the man.

They should be paid equally providing they do jobs to the same standard.
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ffrann
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(Original post by curiouslyorange1989)
true but at the same time they spend more time off after the preganacy and there is the lowered level of productivity attached to thinking about the child, taking them to the doctors etc.

as much as in a perfect world it would be good for men and women to care for the kid equally i think in practice i can pretty much accept women are better at it than blokes (which is also reflected in divorce courts).
I think you make a good point, in that there could be a genetic basis for women to be better at/more inclined to care for children than men. However, I think most of the reason is society based. Also, the genetic basis would only be a general trend, so women who would only take a few weeks off for maternity leave shouldn't be penalised because some take more off. I would support writing maternity and paternity leave arrangements into individual contracts to avoid this problem.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
I have a penis silly, but do carry on...

Btw, you are such an amazing flirt :rolleyes:

Aha. Or afraid of your own mediocrity, so strive to avoid any kind of competition? Btw, industries come and go, just as a warning. You are much better doing something you actually like.
Its called maxamising your investment. The engineering industry does not come and go, there will always be a demand for engineers throughout the world.

Doing something you like is for the pansys and women. Men do whats going to make them money, anyway i have an interest in maths.

I don't know what you're trying to say about flirting..
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Marsha2112
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For the same job, obviously yes. What reason is there not to?
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Reblet)
Please please please learn how to use apostrophes.

And I am glad your motive is money but I hope it will make you happy as well. Job satisfaction is important too and it would be awful to be a depressed millionaire!

I am not an English student, these things do not bother me. If you can understand me i am happy.

My motive is to live good, money is just the means to do this. I have done some of the hardest/worst jobs you can think of, working in a well paid proffesional job with respect would be heaven for me.

Why did you try and say i am gay? i am noy gay, you are stupid!
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
Its called mixamising your investment. The engineering industry does not come and go, there will always be a demand for engineers throughout the world.
Or avoiding competition more like. If you actually intend to be an engineer, I hope you know that you end up quite low on the pay scale relative to other science subjects (like maths). For that reason, most of those who do engineering degrees, actually end up going into management.
Doing something you like is for the pansys and women. Men do whats going to make them money, anyway i have an interest in maths.
I do lots of maths at degree level, in fact next year 2/3 of my modules are in the maths dept. Would I be studying it if I did not enjoy the subject? No.
I don't know what you're trying to say about flirting..
Twas a joke, that went over your head.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Or avoiding competition more like. If you actually intend to be an engineer, I hope you know that you end up quite low on the pay scale relative to other science subjects (like maths). For that reason, most of those who do engineering degrees, actually end up going into management.

I do lots of maths at degree level, in fact next year 2/3 of my modules are in the maths dept. Would I be studying it if I did not enjoy the subject? No.

Twas a joke, that went over your head.
Out of curiosity what are you studying?

To be honest i think the opposite is the truth, engineers earn more than regular maths students. They have the maths and a job where they can apply it. Some maths students go into banking (where its big money), but engineering students go into banking aswell. However a lot become teachers and things like this.
I think if you like maths, engineering or accountancy is the way to go to make money.

Do you honestly believe i am scared of competition? If you were scared of competition you would go to a university low down on the scale. I chose a high end university because competition motivates me.

Chartered Engineers make on average £50,000 - £60,000. That is a good wage, in management perhaps £100,000. So many do go to management, but that is engineering management work not regular management.

It was a stupid joke.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
Out of curiosity what are you studying?
Natural Sciences, which is basically Durham's combined honours sciences programme. Mostly I do Maths under it now, and my 4th year is all Maths.
To be honest i think the opposite is the truth, engineers earn more than regular maths students. They have the maths and a job where they can apply it. Some maths students go into banking (where its big money), but engineering students go into banking aswell. However a lot become teachers and things like this.
I think if you like maths, engineering or accountancy is the way to go to make money.
Maths students have an advantage over engineers when going into banking, simply because they have had an opportunity to study more relevant stuff.
Do you honestly believe i am scared of competition? If you were scared of competition you would go to a university low down on the scale. I chose a high end university because competition motivates me.
If you have good grades getting into a high end uni for engineering is piss. As for your fellow students, its blatant that you are not competing with them as such for the most part. The idea is you learn from them.

Getting an engineering job is easy really, largely because its unpopular. In effect you are avoiding competition, as long as you do ok in your degree then you are practically guaranteed a job.
Chartered Engineers make on average £50,000 - £60,000. That is a good wage, in management perhaps £100,000. So many do go to management, but that is engineering management work not regular management.
Do you know how much an Actuarial trainee makes? A lot more than a chartered engineer. You are nowhere near guaranteed to get paid £100k, unless you choose to enter a particularly risky branch of engineering work.
It was a stupid joke.
Or over your head.
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tumtetum
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I can't walk right now (got a health problem), so i have to make entertainment for myself.

I am not sure if i would be bothered if women earned more than men, as long as i got what i wanted, should i care about other men who make less. Not sure.
Is that a problem related to your oh-so-dangerous job on the railways? Maybe they should fire you and hire a woman who would be more careful
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tumtetum
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And I know that's brilliantly immature before you start abusing me bornstubbon, I just think you're one of the most irritating people I have ever come across.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Natural Sciences, which is basically Durham's combined honours sciences programme. Mostly I do Maths under it now, and my 4th year is all Maths.

Maths students have an advantage over engineers when going into banking, simply because they have had an opportunity to study more relevant stuff.

If you have good grades getting into a high end uni for engineering is piss. As for your fellow students, its blatant that you are not competing with them as such for the most part. The idea is you learn from them.

Getting an engineering job is easy really, largely because its unpopular. In effect you are avoiding competition, as long as you do ok in your degree then you are practically guaranteed a job.

Do you know how much an Actuarial trainee makes? A lot more than a chartered engineer. You are nowhere near guaranteed to get paid £100k, unless you choose to enter a particularly risky branch of engineering work.

Or over your head.
OK natural science. Interesting.

Maths might have an advantage but the majority of Aeronautical engineering students go into banking and finance. So they have the opportunity of high paid jobs in banking or engineering.

If you get good grade's you can go to good uni's in many subjects. Yes you have to work with fellow students, but a bit of healthy competition motivates you to try harder.

You are right, in engineering you are gauranteed a decent job if you do well. Hence why i chose to study engineering. I am not studying to be put into a competitive job market where i will have a hard time getting a job. You can call that avoiding competition, i consider it beating the competition because they are not making smart descisions that will make them good money in the long run.


I am not that concerned with how much otyher people make, i am interested in getting a good job for myself and living good. You could say do you know what a football player makes, it doesn't matter because i am not becoming one. If i could make 100K a year i'd be very happy and that is my goal.

I have an interest in nuclear engineering, i see this as the future of energy. I also quite like the idea of aeronautical engineering. So i have descisions ahead of what path to take.

Still a stupid joke.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by tumtetum)
Is that a problem related to your oh-so-dangerous job on the railways? Maybe they should fire you and hire a woman who would be more careful

No actually. I don't think women want the labour intensive jobs on the railway. Unless you want one i could put your name forward???

Immature? you are only a young girls anyway.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
OK natural science. Interesting.

Maths might have an advantage but the majority of Aeronautical engineering students go into banking and finance. So they have the opportunity of high paid jobs in banking or engineering.
Maths has more of a range of jobs than engineering, and its very easy to get a teaching job if things go pear shaped.
If you get good grade's you can go to good uni's in many subjects. Yes you have to work with fellow students, but a bit of healthy competition motivates you to try harder.
Hate to break it to you, but people really don't bother competing. Its not like school.
You are right, in engineering you are gauranteed a decent job if you do well. Hence why i chose to study engineering. I am not studying to be put into a competitive job market where i will have a hard time getting a job. You can call that avoiding competition, i consider it beating the competition because they are not making smart descisions that will make them good money in the long run.
Your guaranteed a job if you do poorly with a Maths degree though, with a Third I can go and teach in a school.
I am not that concerned with how much otyher people make, i am interested in getting a good job for myself and living good. You could say do you know what a football player makes, it doesn't matter because i am not becoming one. If i could make 100K a year i'd be very happy and that is my goal.
100K a year you can make with any degree just by rising to the top pretty much. Most people don't like the hours that go with it however.
I have an interest in nuclear engineering, i see this as the future of energy. I also quite like the idea of aeronautical engineering. So i have descisions ahead of what path to take.
Nuclear engineering might not be the future of energy, it sounds like a gamble to me. If renewables take off, you will have to retire in your early fifties at best.
Still a stupid joke.
No.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Maths has more of a range of jobs than engineering, and its very easy to get a teaching job if things go pear shaped.

Hate to break it to you, but people really don't bother competing. Its not like school.

Your guaranteed a job if you do poorly with a Maths degree though, with a Third I can go and teach in a school.

100K a year you can make with any degree just by rising to the top pretty much. Most people don't like the hours that go with it however.

Nuclear engineering might not be the future of energy, it sounds like a gamble to me. If renewables take off, you will have to retire in your early fifties at best.

No.
Maths certainly does not have a wider range of jobs than engineering. I think you are in some crazy attempt to make maths seem more lucrative than engineering. There are so many careers in engineering (obviously all within engineering) that you can get. Maths there is not much, i think a lot of maths graduates go onto become teachers.

I have not done A levels i did a university engineering course. I do compete, as i said it motivates me. I think you are just changing what you say to try and be the opposite of me, first you say i am scared of competition and now you say people aren't competing?

You can become a maths or physics teacher with an engineering degree.

Ok, well i don't know many people who make 100K a year. So its clearly not as simple as you suggest.

The good thing about doing mechanical engineering is that you could become a nuclear engineer and then maybe you could build weapons, or do engineering on the railway, so you are not stuck. If nuclear engineering was becoming extinct you could get a job doing something else.

Don't worry about me.


Yes, jokes which make you seem like a homosexual go over my head. Well done.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
Maths certainly does not have a wider range of jobs than engineering. I think you are in some crazy attempt to make maths seem more lucrative than engineering. There are so many careers in engineering (obviously all within engineering) that you can get. Maths there is not much, i think a lot of maths graduates go onto become teachers.
Maths degrees on average earn the most from their degrees when compared to any other subject, even engineering.
http://www.soton.ac.uk/maths/admissi...ers/index.html
"Mathematics or computing degrees make the biggest difference to earnings over a graduate's lifetime (Sloane and O'Leary, 2005). The extra lifetime earnings of a mathematica graduate compared with an A-level leaver average over £225,000. For an arts graduate this premium is only £22,000."
I have not done A levels i did a university engineering course. I do compete, as i said it motivates me. I think you are just changing what you say to try and be the opposite of me, first you say i am scared of competition and now you say people aren't competing?
Or you lack reading comprehension. I am saying that you are taking the path of least competition.
You can become a maths or physics teacher with an engineering degree.
You can with an A-level in the subject. Having a degree in the subject is an advantage, as you do a lot more maths in a maths degree as opposed an engineering one.
Ok, well i don't know many people who make 100K a year. So its clearly not as simple as you suggest.
It requires working longer hours, which most people are not willing to do.
The good thing about doing mechanical engineering is that you could become a nuclear engineer and then maybe you could build weapons, or do engineering on the railway, so you are not stuck. If nuclear engineering was becoming extinct you could get a job doing something else.

Don't worry about me.
A job, but I doubt as high a pay grade as you seem to be wanting.
Yes, jokes which make you seem like a homosexual go over my head. Well done.
Again, you are showing a lack of reading comprehension ability. *gives mock salute*
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Maths degrees on average earn the most from their degrees when compared to any other subject, even engineering.
http://www.soton.ac.uk/maths/admissi...ers/index.html
"Mathematics or computing degrees make the biggest difference to earnings over a graduate's lifetime (Sloane and O'Leary, 2005). The extra lifetime earnings of a mathematica graduate compared with an A-level leaver average over £225,000. For an arts graduate this premium is only £22,000."

Or you lack reading comprehension. I am saying that you are taking the path of least competition.

You can with an A-level in the subject. Having a degree in the subject is an advantage, as you do a lot more maths in a maths degree as opposed an engineering one.

It requires working longer hours, which most people are not willing to do.

A job, but I doubt as high a pay grade as you seem to be wanting.

Again, you are showing a lack of reading comprehension ability. *gives mock salute*

I have seen graduate starting salary lists and engineering was the second highest proffesion. I am curious which mathematicians make such good money?
It is interesting how you defend maths so much when you are not even studying maths.
Regardless engineering is a much more interesting subject than maths.

Ok, i am taking the path of least competition in a situation where people don't compete? What is your point? Are you trying to discredit me? Am i cowardly for not competing more? Perhaps i should quit my course and just go into the work place and compete more with no education. Would you be happy then?
I don't think you can teach with an A level in that subject.

They say Aeronautical engineering has more complex maths than a maths degree, so not really. Thats why aeronautical engineering grads often go into finance.

Ok, well i know its not that easy to make 100 grand a year no matter what you say.
Mechanical engineering is a very versatile degree (or masters). You can work in many areas.

Your joke made you look gay. Don't get upset at me because you appear homosexual.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I have seen graduate starting salary lists and engineering was the second highest proffesion. I am curious which mathematicians make such good money?
It is interesting how you defend maths so much when you are not even studying maths.
Regardless engineering is a much more interesting subject than maths.
Starting salaries are high for engineers yes, but over a career you earn a lot less than a mathematician. As for maths, I more or less study a maths degree, so it would make sense for me to defend it, would it not?
Ok, i am taking the path of least competition in a situation where people don't compete? What is your point? Are you trying to discredit me? Am i cowardly for not competing more? Perhaps i should quit my course and just go into the work place and compete more with no education. Would you be happy then?
I don't think you can teach with an A level in that subject.
No, my point is that you are afraid of competition, which does relate to the thread...

You can teach a subject with just an A-level in it, but you would not be considered a subject specialist.
They say Aeronautical engineering has more complex maths than a maths degree, so not really. Thats why aeronautical engineering grads often go into finance.
Complex or difficult. Really complex in your case.means that you get to play with computers all day to get them to solve differential equations. Conceptually its quite easy material.
Ok, well i know its not that easy to make 100 grand a year no matter what you say.
Mechanical engineering is a very versatile degree (or masters). You can work in many areas.
By the sounds of it you know **** all. Mech engineering is not as good as a maths degree, employers see the latter as harder.
Your joke made you look gay. Don't get upset at me because you appear homosexual.
Your response makes you look semi-literate...
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Starting salaries are high for engineers yes, but over a career you earn a lot less than a mathematician. As for maths, I more or less study a maths degree, so it would make sense for me to defend it, would it not?

No, my point is that you are afraid of competition, which does relate to the thread...

You can teach a subject with just an A-level in it, but you would not be considered a subject specialist.

Complex or difficult. Really complex in your case.means that you get to play with computers all day to get them to solve differential equations. Conceptually its quite easy material.

By the sounds of it you know **** all. Mech engineering is not as good as a maths degree, employers see the latter as harder.

Your response makes you look semi-literate...
I am not sure why someone studying a maths degree would get offended by what i said. I believe you're studying natural science which is not a maths degree. Engineering is almost a maths degree i do not claim i am studying a maths degree.

How am i afraid of competition? Are you embracing competition?

I am not sure how an aeronautical degree comapares to a maths degree but i have heard aeronautical engineering is harder than a maths degree. A maths proffesor told me a maths degree is a good start for the maths involved in aeronautical engineering. Take that for what it is.

I have not heard of A level students becoming teachers.

I am not sure what employers consider harder but mechanical engineering does involve a lot of maths and does offer a vast amount of different career opportunities in the engineering world. I am curious what you have against engineering. I am suprised you think so highly of maths, i have never heard anyone speak so much in favour of maths degrees.

Its not my fault you make yourself appear homosexual. Are you homosexual?
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curiouslyorange1989
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(Original post by ffrann)
I think you make a good point, in that there could be a genetic basis for women to be better at/more inclined to care for children than men. However, I think most of the reason is society based. Also, the genetic basis would only be a general trend, so women who would only take a few weeks off for maternity leave shouldn't be penalised because some take more off. I would support writing maternity and paternity leave arrangements into individual contracts to avoid this problem.
lol i would support the idea of contractual arrangments for things like maternity leave and such, though i would be wary as to where it could lead (the ramifications of no preggers clauses etc).

about the being penalised for you gender bit, its all about the statistical likelyhood, according to which they are definately more likely to get preggers which is enough to penalise them on that front. Its like as a bloke im apparantly more likely to crash a car simply because of my gender, therefore i have to pay twice as much car insurance despite the fact i may be the safest driver in the world (but its ok because i get paid more ).
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Reblet
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I am not an English student, these things do not bother me. If you can understand me i am happy.

My motive is to live good, money is just the means to do this. I have done some of the hardest/worst jobs you can think of, working in a well paid professional job with respect would be heaven for me.

Why did you try and say i am gay? i am noy gay, you are stupid!
I'm afraid that you are an English speaker though and as such should know how to use correct grammar and punctuation. This is especially important if you want high earnings as the worst things to have on a CV are bad grammar/spelling/punctuation. It's that added factor that may result in you not getting an interview... So just trying to help

What were your hard/bad jobs out of interest? I can't think of many dangerous/difficult jobs I wouldn't do for the right money. I want a job where I can live comfortably but also happily.

I didn't say you were gay. I merely said you two would make a great couple, and I hold that to be true. And good insult "i am noy [sic] gay, you are stupid!" I felt like I was just verbally abused by a six year old! And please stop being so touchy about the gay thing, it makes you seem either homophobic or homosexual... you know what they say about those who protest too much...

Anyway I think we all came to the conclusion that a) men opt for more profitable career paths than women b) maternity leave still has issues c) pay should be based on skill and value not gender. A good debate I'd say. I'll be happy to have a medium income with a love for my job.
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