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    (Original post by Xotol)
    Ah man, I'm so happy for Novak after the disappointment at the French. If he had lost this match, especially after his second set collapse (missed 7 set points!), it would have been an incredibly tough recovery. Now onto New York. Another 3 slam year please!

    It was a weird match. Federer didn't play as well as he did against Murray obviously, and I think Novak was a big part of that. On the face of it, I think Murray is a better player than Djokovic on grass if they are matched up together, but Federer finds Djokovic tougher for three reasons IMO. First of all, Djokovic is a better server and Federer can't exploit the second serve anywhere near as much to make as big of an impact on return games. How many times did Federer run around Murray's WTA second serve on Friday to crush that forehand winner? Certainly a lot more than he was able to against Djokovic. Second, Djokovic is a more aggressive returner and is capable of neutralising the Federer serve by ridiculously dropping seemingly unreturnable serves on the baseline. I think served pretty well (not as well as against Murray obviously), but we saw the GOAT returner in full display here. Third, Djokovic seems to play more aggressively and force Federer back. His depth, at times, is outrageously good.

    As I said earlier on in the thread, the biggest thing with Federer now is his consistency. Not just match to match, but set to set. He can't maintain his level against the brutal consistency of Djokovic's groundstrokes, leading to those unforced error shanks we have become sadly accustomed to seeing. I think a lot of them are 'forced' in that Federer feels he needs to go for more because Djokovic can just pummel BHs to Federer's feet.

    One thing I found disappointing in Federer's approach is that he didn't go to the net that much. It seemed to me that he was getting a lot of success going there with Djokovic's pathetic lobs and some pretty bad passing shots, but he was too engaged in those baseline rallies, which was a mistake. By the end of the 4th set, I think he should have changed it up and just rushed to the net every opportunity to at least make Novak pass him. I think he was waiting for choke that didn't come.

    And very impressed with Novak's ability to withhold is choke in sets 3 and 4. We saw glimpses of classic Chokovic in that second set, but he battened down the hatches and took it comfortably in the end, unlike last year's final

    I don't think there's much anyone on tour can do against Novak now. Aside from Wawrinka GOATing, who is capable of stopping him?
    Yeah I agree. Federer was never gonna beat Djokovic from the back of the court so getting trapped in loads of baseline rallies cost him dearly. I thought once Federer broke for 4-2 in the 1st he was gonna serve like he did against Murray and steamroll Djokovic but a couple of loose balls and Djokovic cranking up his returns cost him there. Federer should've tried to come to the net a bit more to disrupt Djokovic's rhythm but I guess with Djokovic getting the ball so deep that strategy was taken away from him.
    I'm thrilled for Djokovic for him to have another multi slam year and to defend a slam outside the Australian Open for the 1st time. He seems to be on the road to go down as one of the greatest of all time, especially if he wins the French at some point, however even if he never gets RG he's still an all time great IMO. Also agree that only peak Wawrinka right now and probably Federer on a fast hard court can stop him right now
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    I knew Djoker was going to rape Fed lol
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    (Original post by Xotol)
    Ah man, I'm so happy for Novak after the disappointment at the French. If he had lost this match, especially after his second set collapse (missed 7 set points!), it would have been an incredibly tough recovery. Now onto New York. Another 3 slam year please!

    It was a weird match. Federer didn't play as well as he did against Murray obviously, and I think Novak was a big part of that. On the face of it, I think Murray is a better player than Djokovic on grass if they are matched up together, but Federer finds Djokovic tougher for three reasons IMO. First of all, Djokovic is a better server and Federer can't exploit the second serve anywhere near as much to make as big of an impact on return games. How many times did Federer run around Murray's WTA second serve on Friday to crush that forehand winner? Certainly a lot more than he was able to against Djokovic. Second, Djokovic is a more aggressive returner and is capable of neutralising the Federer serve by ridiculously dropping seemingly unreturnable serves on the baseline. I think served pretty well (not as well as against Murray obviously), but we saw the GOAT returner in full display here. Third, Djokovic seems to play more aggressively and force Federer back. His depth, at times, is outrageously good.

    As I said earlier on in the thread, the biggest thing with Federer now is his consistency. Not just match to match, but set to set. He can't maintain his level against the brutal consistency of Djokovic's groundstrokes, leading to those unforced error shanks we have become sadly accustomed to seeing. I think a lot of them are 'forced' in that Federer feels he needs to go for more because Djokovic can just pummel BHs to Federer's feet.

    One thing I found disappointing in Federer's approach is that he didn't go to the net that much. It seemed to me that he was getting a lot of success going there with Djokovic's pathetic lobs and some pretty bad passing shots, but he was too engaged in those baseline rallies, which was a mistake. By the end of the 4th set, I think he should have changed it up and just rushed to the net every opportunity to at least make Novak pass him. I think he was waiting for choke that didn't come.

    And very impressed with Novak's ability to withhold is choke in sets 3 and 4. We saw glimpses of classic Chokovic in that second set, but he battened down the hatches and took it comfortably in the end, unlike last year's final

    I don't think there's much anyone on tour can do against Novak now. Aside from Wawrinka GOATing, who is capable of stopping him?
    Top analysis there. It was a similar kind of tale in that Federer was hot off his serve early on and won a lot of net points, but Djokovic just dug his heels in and sharpened up as the match went on. How strong he is mentally now was attested to in the first break of serve in the match - how Djoker rebounded from that break was astounding, where most other players (Murray included) would have had the knocking stuffed out of them. Novak just doesn't let Roger get away with anything when he has the lead. It's such an interesting dynamic of their rivalry that (I think) Federer is still the one Nole fears the most and matchup wise is the most dangerous, yet the flipside is Djokovic has the ability to neutralise eventually most of Federer's weapons, as we saw today. While he struggled against Fed's serve early on, eventually he honed in like a searchlight and started hitting the most unbelievable returns. Add that to how damn clutch he was when at the most trying moments, and you can't blame Roger for losing to one of the great phenomenons in men's tennis. Novak is certainly a unique talent.

    Who can oppose Djokovic? Stan won't always be there. As we've seen, he's still vulnerable to lapses and just ... being Stan. Murray doesn't have it against Novak, frankly. I'm thinking we could be waiting a while for the next great force to oppose him. Personally, I'm hoping dearly that Rafa wakes up one day, rises from the Phoenix ashes and meets Novak in another epic final one day.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Bad luck to be around in the era of Djokovic (Fizzel).
    Djok's era is over, 28 now, he's a good few years past his peak.
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    Djok's era is over, 28 now, he's a good few years past his peak.
    After the picture, me calling you immature, and the whole 14+1 thing, I'd have thought you'd have got the trolling. And don't say 'there was a point to be made' because there wasn't really tbh edit: I wasn't trolling till the picture, your points were mostly valid but I cbaed for the discussion in all honesty
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    After the picture, me calling you immature, and the whole 14+1 thing, I'd have thought you'd have got the trolling. And don't say 'there was a point to be made' because there wasn't really tbh
    Perhaps I just take you too seriously as a poster.
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    (Original post by Sirocco11)
    Top analysis there. It was a similar kind of tale in that Federer was hot off his serve early on and won a lot of net points, but Djokovic just dug his heels in and sharpened up as the match went on. How strong he is mentally now was attested to in the first break of serve in the match - how Djoker rebounded from that break was astounding, where most other players (Murray included) would have had the knocking stuffed out of them. Novak just doesn't let Roger get away with anything when he has the lead. It's such an interesting dynamic of their rivalry that (I think) Federer is still the one Nole fears the most and matchup wise is the most dangerous, yet the flipside is Djokovic has the ability to neutralise eventually most of Federer's weapons, as we saw today. While he struggled against Fed's serve early on, eventually he honed in like a searchlight and started hitting the most unbelievable returns. Add that to how damn clutch he was when at the most trying moments, and you can't blame Roger for losing to one of the great phenomenons in men's tennis. Novak is certainly a unique talent.

    Who can oppose Djokovic? Stan won't always be there. As we've seen, he's still vulnerable to lapses and just ... being Stan. Murray doesn't have it against Novak, frankly. I'm thinking we could be waiting a while for the next great force to oppose him. Personally, I'm hoping dearly that Rafa wakes up one day, rises from the Phoenix ashes and meets Novak in another epic final one day.
    I hope Rafa comes back too, not the same tour when Rafa's not playing well. Hopefully his 2015 is like Murray's 2014 in that it's just a down year and he'll be back near the top playing consistent tennis again next year/ the latter stage of this season. I think Rafa will be looking forward to the hard court swing, there are so many ranking points he can go for and the hard courts have been a lot kinder to him in recent years than the grass by a long stretch. I think a good end to the season is crucial for Rafa to set himself up for a good season next year, otherwise he'll keep on getting tough draws and it'll become harder and harder to win and compete for the biggest tournaments
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    (Original post by Xotol)
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    Ah man, I'm so happy for Novak after the disappointment at the French. If he had lost this match, especially after his second set collapse (missed 7 set points!), it would have been an incredibly tough recovery. Now onto New York. Another 3 slam year please!

    It was a weird match. Federer didn't play as well as he did against Murray obviously, and I think Novak was a big part of that. On the face of it, I think Murray is a better player than Djokovic on grass if they are matched up together, but Federer finds Djokovic tougher for three reasons IMO. First of all, Djokovic is a better server and Federer can't exploit the second serve anywhere near as much to make as big of an impact on return games. How many times did Federer run around Murray's WTA second serve on Friday to crush that forehand winner? Certainly a lot more than he was able to against Djokovic. Second, Djokovic is a more aggressive returner and is capable of neutralising the Federer serve by ridiculously dropping seemingly unreturnable serves on the baseline. I think served pretty well (not as well as against Murray obviously), but we saw the GOAT returner in full display here. Third, Djokovic seems to play more aggressively and force Federer back. His depth, at times, is outrageously good.

    As I said earlier on in the thread, the biggest thing with Federer now is his consistency. Not just match to match, but set to set. He can't maintain his level against the brutal consistency of Djokovic's groundstrokes, leading to those unforced error shanks we have become sadly accustomed to seeing. I think a lot of them are 'forced' in that Federer feels he needs to go for more because Djokovic can just pummel BHs to Federer's feet.

    One thing I found disappointing in Federer's approach is that he didn't go to the net that much. It seemed to me that he was getting a lot of success going there with Djokovic's pathetic lobs and some pretty bad passing shots, but he was too engaged in those baseline rallies, which was a mistake. By the end of the 4th set, I think he should have changed it up and just rushed to the net every opportunity to at least make Novak pass him. I think he was waiting for choke that didn't come.

    And very impressed with Novak's ability to withhold is choke in sets 3 and 4. We saw glimpses of classic Chokovic in that second set, but he battened down the hatches and took it comfortably in the end, unlike last year's final

    I don't think there's much anyone on tour can do against Novak now. Aside from Wawrinka GOATing, who is capable of stopping him?
    Realistically Wawrinka and Murray are the two other players who have a good chance of beating Djokovic this year, although he's not unstoppable; Anderson came close and Karlovic beat him earlier this year. I know Murray's recent performance against Djokovic isn't good, but a lot of those losses were last year when he was recovering from back surgery.

    I wonder why Murray hasn't fixed his 2nd serve yet - maybe he has tried but is most comfortable with his current one? Also is it just me or did Murray use the forehand down the line much more under Lendl?
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    Perhaps I just take you too seriously as a poster.
    I've earned that reputation from schooling you a few times, I guess.

    Btw I'm an unashamed Fed fanboy, he's the only reason I watch tennis in the first place, and 80% of the matches I watch involve him. Funner to fanboy.

    Also btw, we've had extended discussions before that were only ended by the mods banning an account of mine during/immediately after my response (and deleting the response), but I still have my replies saved. If you want, I can PM you them or just post them on the United thread. One of them is in relation to that GOAT Falcao thread which you pretty offensively labelled a mere gamble, I can't remember the other rn
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    Djok's era is over, 28 now, he's a good few years past his peak.
    Idk.Fed's 34 and.he's been good for the past couple years
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    Djokovic absolutely deserved this win today, that's his 3rd Wimbledon Title and 9th Slam overall! He was so good on the return and at the back of the court. Federer's serve was not good enough today - only 59% in set 1 as opposed to 86% in set 1 against Murray, and even then he had his chances to put that set to bed. He had chances in set 2, but got lucky to actually win the tie-break, and had further chances in set 3 - so it was a close match, where Novak just played the big points much better.
    This is also Djokovic's first multi-Slam season since 2011, so that must certainly feel good.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    I've earned that reputation from schooling you a few times, I guess.
    We've had some good longer discussions, few places you can have them on here tbh.

    Also btw, we've had extended discussions before that were only ended by the mods banning an account of mine during/immediately after my response (and deleting the response), but I still have my replies saved. If you want, I can PM you them or just post them on the United thread. One of them is in relation to that GOAT Falcao thread which you pretty offensively labelled a mere gamble, I can't remember the other rn
    I assumed that was the case. That's quite sad, but I'll take it as a compliment. Nice 'threat' in there btw. You can if you wish, but I won't be replying but as said, I doubt that is your motive for it.

    (Original post by Krish4791)
    This is also Djokovic's first multi-Slam season since 2011, so that must certainly feel good.
    Best of his career at this stage of a season too with his improved result at the French.
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    US open should be insane. Nadal with something to prove. Djokovic looking to make it 10 slams. Stan and Murray are pretty good on hard courts too.
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    We've had some good longer discussions, few places you can have them on here tbh.

    I assumed that was the case. That's quite sad, but I'll take it as a compliment. Nice 'threat' in there btw. You can if you wish, but I won't be replying but as said, I doubt that is your motive for it.
    We have, I agree.

    No there was no threat in there at all haha (I honestly don't even know where you see a threat), I was just annoyed that a good and extensive discussion was ruined by some bitter mod. My motive for even bringing it up was that I enjoyed the discussions, and ofc seek your acclaim and approval.
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    Well done, Novak. A deserved winner and the best player in the world by far.
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    (Original post by lizzy95)
    I hope Rafa comes back too, not the same tour when Rafa's not playing well. Hopefully his 2015 is like Murray's 2014 in that it's just a down year and he'll be back near the top playing consistent tennis again next year/ the latter stage of this season. I think Rafa will be looking forward to the hard court swing, there are so many ranking points he can go for and the hard courts have been a lot kinder to him in recent years than the grass by a long stretch. I think a good end to the season is crucial for Rafa to set himself up for a good season next year, otherwise he'll keep on getting tough draws and it'll become harder and harder to win and compete for the biggest tournaments
    Yeah for sure, knowing what Rafa is capable of it's just not right to see him struggling in the doldrums the way he is right now. In perspective, he's still made two Grand Slam QFs this year, which is good, but way off the standards we've expected to see from him. He has to try and attack the autumn hard court swing and see if he can get some big wins under his belt, and if not that, at least change his game to see if that makes a difference. It's such a turnaround that I actually believe he has a better shot at the US Open than he does in Australia or Wimbledon, and if we want to play with statistics a little bit, he's made the semi finals or better in the tournament in every appearance since 2008. While the US I still wouldn't say is the make or break for Rafa, it's important, and if he tanks like he did Wimbledon before the QF things are going to get harder. Here's hoping something clicks for him finally.
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    If Rafa doesn't win the the US open, it would be his first year since 2005 without a Grand slam title to his name.
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    Good match however it was a bit of a squib in the end and a match in which Fed should have been 2-0. Well done Djokovic for the immediate break back and 3rd and 4th set.
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    (Original post by Ibrahimbasar)
    If Rafa doesn't win the the US open, it would be his first year since 2005 without a Grand slam title to his name.
    He won't win it. I'd be astounded if he manages to.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Good match however it was a bit of a squib in the end and a match in which Fed should have been 2-0. Well done Djokovic for the immediate break back and 3rd and 4th set.
    I think most people agree that Djokovic should've won the 2nd set since he squandered 7 set points a couple on his serve. Federer could've easily won the 1st set after going up a break and then having set points saved by Djokovic's clutch serving only to play a pretty tiebreak. All in all it was probably fair they went into the 3rd set 1-1 from there Djokovic of course wrestling away control of the match
 
 
 
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