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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    It's amazingly shocking how cultures are different.

    The US government would in no way allow any group in the USA to shoot rockets into Mexico or Canada. Shooting rockets from a hospital, or school, or religious building, is also out of the question.

    Hamas cowardly hiding in a hospital is just... sad.

    Hamas would help their people much more if they learned from great civil rights leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr.
    Unfortunately we're dealing with a culture of death that wants to kill and doesn't have any regard for their own lives and that of their citizens.

    In fact, their own citizens dying is part of their agenda.

    Sad.
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    Martin Luther King Jr. and his friends accomplished an amazing feat. They shamed people with white skin in the USA for how they as a group treated people with other skin colors. MLK Jr. courageously championed the rights of all people, extending an olive branch to those who were hurting his own people by offering love, logic and nonviolence protests.

    Now, what if MLK Jr. had advocated violence? What if MLK Jr. had led his people to try to kill people with white skin? Do you think that would help his cause? Nope. It would have ensued a blood bath and possibly even a civil war with whites against blacks. Violence begets violence, and it takes a strong group to stop the wheel of violence, which is what MLK Jr. and his friends did.

    MLK Jr.'s stance on nonviolence was the key to convicting many Americans with white skin to understand that all people are equal under God, no matter a person's skin color.

    Now, I understand that Israel has been treating Arabs unjustly, and that Arabs have been upset that Jewish Europeans have been colonizing what the Arabs consider to be their land. Violence though is not the answer. Some Native Americans tried to fight the European immigrants and their descendants, but the sad result was most Native Americans dying (sickness and war), and the survivors being forced onto reservations.

    In that sense, the USA and Israel have something in common: colonization by European immigrants.

    Now, if Native Americans had escaped to other countries, then their descendants came back to 'America' - their forefathers' homeland, and colonized the land, then Israel would be like the Native American's rebirth. However, the Native Americans are not trying to take the land back from the descendants of European immigrants. I wonder if one reason is due to the violence their ancestors endured?

    If the world thinks that Israel is committing war crimes, Israel's actions are nothing compared to the genocides of Native Americans by European immigrants and their descendants who founded the USA, as well as lack of empathy when thousands of Native Americans were dying from European diseases.

    As an American, I am not at all proud of what my ancestors did to the Native Americans. However, I can't change the past. I wish I could, but I don't have that power. I wish both the Native Americans and the European immigrants and their descendants had always lived peacefully together, like how Americans celebrate Thanksgiving. It broke my heart when I learned from Native American friends that they don't celebrate Thanksgiving because of the horrible events that followed.

    Back to Martin Luther King Jr., many of the descendants of his people were forced to come to the USA as slaves. While at the time of MKL Jr., they were thankfully free from slavery, they were horribly treated as second class people.

    I understand that many/most/all? Arab Palestinians feel that way. Instead of violence, the answer is nonviolence and loving/logical arguments.

    The following quotes of MLK Jr. are greatly helpful in achieving equality, and I think Hamas would be wise to learn from this great civil rights leader:

    'The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
    begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy.
    Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
    Through violence you may murder the liar,
    but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.
    Through violence you may murder the hater,
    but you do not murder hate.
    In fact, violence merely increases hate.
    So it goes.
    Returning violence for violence multiplies violence,
    adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.
    Darkness cannot drive out darkness:
    only light can do that.
    Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'

    'Nonviolence is the answer
    to the crucial political and moral questions of our time:
    the need for man to overcome oppression and violence
    without resorting to oppression and violence.
    Man must evolve for all human conflict
    a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation.
    The foundation of such a method is love.

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech,
    Stockholm, Sweden, December 11, 1964'

    'Man was born into barbarism
    when killing his fellow man
    was a normal condition of existence.
    He became endowed with a conscience.
    And he has now reached the day
    when violence toward another human being
    must become as abhorrent as eating another's flesh.

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    Why We Can't Wait, 1963'

    'Darkness cannot drive out darkness;
    only light can do that.
    Hate cannot drive out hate;
    only love can do that.
    Hate multiplies hate,
    violence multiplies violence,
    and toughness multiplies toughness
    in a descending spiral of destruction....
    The chain reaction of evil --
    hate begetting hate,
    wars producing more wars --
    must be broken,
    or we shall be plunged
    into the dark abyss of annihilation.

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    Strength To Love, 1963'


    What do you think? Is Martin Luther King Jr. right? I personally think he is, and that if he had taken the path of violence, civil rights would have suffered more instead of improving. Hamas is using violence (shooting rockets into Israel and little boys throwing stones at soldiers,...) instead of using the keys to shaming Israel into doing what's right: nonviolence, love and logic.
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    (Original post by Agapelove)

    Both Hamas and Israel are doing wrong. Hamas is also cowardly hiding behind children and women, putting their rockets where families live. I don't know about where you live, but in the USA, if you put rockets in your neighborhood, the FBI will not let you get away with that.
    You should see things realistically. Hamas was set up to resist occupation and thus it uses violence to achieve its target. They should be considered a terrorist organization only if they have actually killed a significant amount of innocent civilians. You shouldn't judge them ex-ante because if they had the capacity to kill civilians I believe they wouldn't. To fire rockets into Israel territory is one of the few ways they can show discontent and that they are not willing to be oppressed.

    Gaza is one of the world's most densiest populated areas. They cannot have military camps and such because then Israel would easily destroy them. They have no option but to operate them in those areas. What Israel wants is a complete demilitarization of the Gaza strip which would actually make them almost powerless to resist any future invasion. Most if not all Palestinian Christians support Hamas.

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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Unfortunately we're dealing with a culture of death that wants to kill and doesn't have any regard for their own lives and that of their citizens.
    The Qur'an does advocate fighting and dying for Allah.

    In fact, their own citizens dying is part of their agenda.
    Cowardly and sneaky at the same time. Cowardly because good and strong men make sure their families are safe and take the fighting away from their families, and sneaky because they want the world to be against Israel, so they provoke Israel to target rockets cowardly hid in civilian places.

    However, I do think Israel is doing wrong attacking Gaza. I think Israel needs to stop attacking Gaza and instead concentrate completely on defense, not on offense.

    Sad.
    Agreed.
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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    The Qur'an does advocate fighting and dying for Allah.



    Cowardly and sneaky at the same time. Cowardly because good and strong men make sure their families are safe and take the fighting away from their families, and sneaky because they want the world to be against Israel, so they provoke Israel to target rockets cowardly hid in civilian places.

    However, I do think Israel is doing wrong attacking Gaza. I think Israel needs to stop attacking Gaza and instead concentrate completely on defense, not on offense.



    Agreed.
    Do you think tunneling oneself into Israel to kill or kidnap Zionist soldiers is cowardly? As I said before the rockets have to be hidden.

    According to your interpretation of the Koran it does. Thank God you're not a sheik.

    According to my interpretation of the Bible your god cannot keep his cool.

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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Useless as "murderous weapons"...
    A million marched against Iraq and nothing happened.
    Thousands marched against student cuts and nothing happened.
    That's why olive branches need to be extended, like what MLK Jr. did. He didn't just march and protest; he made connections with white skinned people by actively loving them and being friends with them. That's why love is vital to civil rights.
    "Protest" may have worked when the politicians cared about the people (up until the 1980's) but after that, it has hardly seemed to have worked.
    Protests without love don't generally get great results.
    I tell you what, give me a couple of instances where, in the UK, the government has changed it's policy after a large scale march or protest.
    The UK has actually changed a lot. Whereas before William Wilberforce fought without violence against slavery, the UK engaged in slavery. Whereas before the UK colonized many parts of the world, the UK allowed people around the world to immigrate. These are radical changes, which has greatly changed who the UK is today.

    "Protesting" is a method to pacify people so they feel they are being heard instead of picking up arms...
    No it's not. Protesting is a way to raise a following.

    That is because they effectively "conquered" America as opposed to mass illegal immigration and terrorism and then demanding their own state, abusing the hospitality of those who had originally welcomed them.
    You think the Native Americans wanted more European immigrants, after the conflict between Native Americans and European immigrants/descendants started?


    2590 odd rockets have been fired. 2 dead civilians.

    That's a kill ratio of 0.07722%
    The Iron Dome and Israelis taking cover are highly effective.
    Warning systems are redundant against Israeli airpower. Take out the warning systems and you are left with redundant bomb shelte
    rs.

    Israel knows how to protect Israelis. Hamas however doesn't.
    Where would you like the Gazans to "take the fight"?
    To the international community without continuing to try to kill Israelis.
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    (Original post by Agapelove)




    The Iron Dome and Israelis taking cover are highly effective.
    rs.

    Israel knows how to protect Israelis. Hamas however doesn't.
    Your tax money is going to the Zionist forces to kill innocent civilians. You say you're a pacifist, but you pay to kill.

    Israel could fly war machines over Gaza. Compared to their air to ground striking power the rockets thrown by Gaza are mere stones.

    Israel gets a lot an awful lot of aid from the US. Why can't the US help Hamas to protect themselves? Without the US the iron dome wouldn't have been a possibility. Anyway Israel has highly sophisticated weapons.

    Hamas cannot protect even its own leaders. Their homes are being struck and targeted as we speak. How could Hamas maintain discipline when it can't even operate freely?

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    (Original post by Pussy Galore)
    There is only only one long term solution that will bring peace to the region and stop the bloodshed. That is Israel annexing Palestine, a single state solution in which both Israelis and Palestinians are given equal rights. Palestine would benefit massively from being part of Israel, there would be massive economic growth in the region and peoples lives would become much better.

    Whilst I agree that in principle this is immoral as Israel has no right to annex Palestine, when judged by the outcomes, such a solution is the most humane and practical for delivering peace and prosperity to the region.


    But Israel is a JEWISH state which means its a state for Jews (and no one else). It is not a nationality.
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    (Original post by Zen Baphomet)
    They are commiting war crimes, certainly.

    But the death-toll is very, very, very, very small compared to pretty much any other major human rights breach in the past hundred years.

    Hell ISIS have killed more Muslims in the past two months than Israel has killed in forty years. That's a massacre, Israel just has questionable war-tactics.

    For the record, I am a huge Anti-Semite, I am not defending Israel.
    I don't know what you want, for everyone to ignore all that Israel is doing simply because others are doing it as well? As someone already pointed out, ISIS are considered terrorists by the whole world, whereas Israel is considered a legitimate government. Israel is bound by a number of international laws to not commit atrocities on any scale. 'Israel just has questionable war tactics' well, that's what you think, that isn't what the dead and dying Gazans think, nor the Palestinians who live out substandard lives simply because Israel can do that to them with impunity. Your argument is flawed and rests on the 'tu quoque' fallacy.

    :rofl2: at you ending your staunchly pro-Zionist, deeply flawed argument with a statement implying pride in anti-Semitism and disclaiming favouring Israel when you obviously are favouring them over other named criminals.
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    Do you think tunneling oneself into Israel to kill or kidnap Zionist soldiers is cowardly?
    Yes, and not a wise decision.

    As I said before the rockets have to be hidden.
    Would you hide a rocket in your family's house? I wouldn't. First, I'm a pacifist and don't believe in fighting with weapons. Secondly, i love my family too much to put them in danger. Third, my government would have huge issues with rockets being in civilian neighborhoods.

    According to your interpretation of the Koran it does.
    The Qur'an is clear:
    (I boldened some below.)

    2:190 (Y. Ali) Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
    2:191 (Y. Ali) And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
    2:193 (Y. Ali) And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

    2:216 (Y. Ali) Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

    2:244 (Y. Ali) Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.

    3:167 (Y. Ali) And the Hypocrites also. These were told: "Come, fight in the way of Allah, or (at least) drive (The foe from your city)." They said: "Had we known how to fight, we should certainly have followed you." They were that day nearer to Unbelief than to Faith, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts but Allah hath full knowledge of all they conceal.
    3:168 (Y. Ali) (They are) the ones that say, (of their brethren slain), while they themselves sit (at ease): "If only they had listened to us they would not have been slain." Say: "Avert death from your own selves, if ye speak the truth."
    3:169 (Y. Ali) Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;
    3:170 (Y. Ali) They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah. And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.

    4:74 (Y. Ali) Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
    4:75 (Y. Ali) And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"

    4:76 (Y. Ali) Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

    4:77 (Y. Ali) Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish regular prayers and spend in regular charity? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah. They said: "Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordered us to fight? Wouldst Thou not Grant us respite to our (natural) term, near (enough)?" Say: "Short is the enjoyment of this world: the Hereafter is the best for those who do right: Never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least!

    4:84 (Y. Ali) Then fight in Allah's cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

    4:89 (Y. Ali) They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

    4:95 (Y. Ali) Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-

    8:38 (Y. Ali) Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).
    8:39 (Y. Ali) And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

    8:65 (Y. Ali) O Messenger. rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.
    8:66 (Y. Ali) For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah. for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.
    8:67 (Y. Ali) It is not fitting for an apostle that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
    8:68 (Y. Ali) Had it not been for a previous ordainment from Allah, a severe penalty would have reached you for the (ransom) that ye took.
    8:69
    (Y. Ali) But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good: but fear Allah. for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
    8:70
    (Y. Ali) O Messenger. say to those who are captives in your hands: "If Allah findeth any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
    8:71 (Y. Ali) But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Messenger.), they have already been in treason against Allah, and so hath He given (thee) power over them. And Allah so He Who hath (full) knowledge and wisdom.

    8:72 (Y. Ali) Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And (remember) Allah seeth all that ye do.
    8:73 (Y. Ali) The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief.

    8:74 (Y. Ali) Those who believe, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith, in the cause of Allah as well as those who give (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) in very truth the Believers: for them is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous.

    8:75 (Y. Ali) And those who accept Faith subsequently, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith in your company,- they are of you. But kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the Book of Allah. Verily Allah is well-acquainted with all things.

    9:5 (Y. Ali) But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    9:13 (Y. Ali) Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!
    9:14 (Y. Ali) Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

    9:29 (Y. Ali) Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    9:30 (Y. Ali) The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

    9:44 (Y. Ali) Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day ask thee for no exemption from fighting with their goods and persons. And Allah knoweth well those who do their duty.
    9:45 (Y. Ali) Only those ask thee for exemption who believe not in Allah and the Last Day, and whose hearts are in doubt, so that they are tossed in their doubts to and fro.

    9:81 (Y. Ali) Those who were left behind (in the Tabuk expedition) rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger of Allah. they hated to strive and fight, with their goods and their persons, in the cause of Allah. they said, "Go not forth in the heat." Say, "The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat." If only they could understand!

    9:82 (Y. Ali) Let them laugh a little: much will they weep: a recompense for the (evil) that they do.

    9:83 (Y. Ali) If, then, Allah bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say: "Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me: for ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion: Then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind."

    9:86 (Y. Ali) When a Sura comes down, enjoining them to believe in Allah and to strive and fight along with His Messenger, those with wealth and influence among them ask thee for exemption, and say: "Leave us (behind): we would be with those who sit (at home)."
    9:87 (Y. Ali) They prefer to be with (the women), who remain behind (at home): their hearts are sealed and so they understand not.
    9:88 (Y. Ali) But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.

    9:123 (Y. Ali) O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

    33:26 (Y. Ali) And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.
    33:27
    (Y. Ali) And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.

    47:4 (Y. Ali) Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

    47:20 (Y. Ali) Those who believe say, "Why is not a sura sent down (for us)?" But when a sura of basic or categorical meaning is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein, thou wilt see those in whose hearts is a disease looking at thee with a look of one in swoon at the approach of death. But more fitting for them-

    48:15 (Y. Ali) Those who lagged behind (will say), when ye (are free to) march and take booty (in war): "Permit us to follow you." They wish to change Allah's decree: Say: "Not thus will ye follow us: Allah has already declared (this) beforehand": then they will say, "But ye are jealous of us." Nay, but little do they understand (such things).

    48:16 (Y. Ali) Say to the desert Arabs who lagged behind: "Ye shall be summoned (to fight) against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, Allah will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, He will punish you with a grievous Penalty."
    48:17 (Y. Ali) No blame is there on the blind, nor is there blame on the lame, nor on one ill (if he joins not the war): But he that obeys Allah and his Messenger,- ((Allah)) will admit him to Gardens beneath which rivers flow; and he who turns back, ((Allah)) will punish him with a grievous Penalty.

    59:2 (Y. Ali) It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering (of the forces). Little did ye think that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah. But the (Wrath of) Allah came to them from quarters from which they little expected (it), and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes (to see)!
    59:3 (Y. Ali) And had it not been that Allah had decreed banishment for them, He would certainly have punished them in this world: And in the Hereafter they shall (certainly) have the Punishment of the Fire.

    59:4 (Y. Ali) That is because they resisted Allah and His Messenger. and if any one resists Allah, verily Allah is severe in Punishment.

    61:4 (Y. Ali) Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.
    Thank God you're not a sheik.
    I thank God I'm not a sheik too. I couldn't be. I believe the Qur'an is not truly from God. I believe Muhammad is one of the false prophets that Jesus prophesied would come (Matthew 24:11; Matthew 24:24). I'm thankful to God for Jesus Christ and strive (though I'm not perfect; thank God for His amazing grace and love!) to obey Jesus' commands.

    According to my interpretation of the Bible your god cannot keep his cool.
    What is your interpretation of Jesus' command to love one's enemies (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27-37)? To me, Jesus' actions and commands are important. Jesus Christ did not kill anybody, nor did his followers who walked and talked with him.
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    Can anybody explain to me why a breach of a ceasefire necessitates a breakdown of said ceasefire?
    Surely, given Iron Dome's modeling capabilities, capable of estimating where any mortar/rocket will land and thus whether to take action against it, it is also capable of working out where they cane from with pretty high reliability. It can take these coordinates and feed them into an Artillery battery, half a dozen shells down range and the problem is solved, the ceasefire can then resume for at least a few more hours until this happens again.
    It in no way necessitates a continuation of full scale hostilities.
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    Why exactly counts the number of rockets Hamas and Islamic Jihad fires? Is there any chance that Israel is faking some of these rocket attacks?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Can anybody explain to me why a breach of a ceasefire necessitates a breakdown of said ceasefire?
    Surely, given Iron Dome's modeling capabilities, capable of estimating where any mortar/rocket will land and thus whether to take action against it, it is also capable of working out where they cane from with pretty high reliability. It can take these coordinates and feed them into an Artillery battery, half a dozen shells down range and the problem is solved, the ceasefire can then resume for at least a few more hours until this happens again.
    It in no way necessitates a continuation of full scale hostilities.
    because an Israeli soilder was captured in a sneak attack by hamas ground forces, what is Israel to do? Not respond? Just allow hamas to capture and kill it's soilders and citizens? No of course not, it needs to respond it can't just allow Hamas to act as aggressors.
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    (Original post by Pussy Galore)
    because an Israeli soilder was captured in a sneak attack by hamas ground forces, what is Israel to do? Not respond? Just allow hamas to capture and kill it's soilders and citizens? No of course not, it needs to respond it can't just allow Hamas to act as aggressors.
    And this cannot wait for 72 hours until the ceasefire is over? After all, they know the soldier isn't likely to die.
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    But Israel is a JEWISH state which means its a state for Jews (and no one else). It is not a nationality.
    The arabs in Israel are the more free than any other arabs in them middle east
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    But Israel is a JEWISH state which means its a state for Jews (and no one else). It is not a nationality.
    Not true. Israel includes Arabs and people of other ethnicities.

    The USA is unofficially an English-American country but allows Arabs, Jews, Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Kenyans, Somalis, Russians, Germans, Latin Americans from 'Spanish' countries, French, and other people to live in the USA. The main requirement is to follow American law.

    Arab countries are not just for Arabs. They have people of other nationalities as well, or no? Is it true that Arabia kicked out Jewish people after Muhammad died?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And this cannot wait for 72 hours until the ceasefire is over? After all, they know the soldier isn't likely to die.
    Ceasefire

    "a temporary suspension of fighting; a truce"

    Hamas attacking and capturing an Israeli soldier is a breaking of the ceasefire, so the ceasefire is already over, Hamas broke the ceasefire.

    How do they know another soldier won't die? They don't is the answer, in fact it is likely that Hamas would simply be emboldened to attack more if Israel was to not defend itself.
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    (Original post by Pussy Galore)
    Ceasefire

    "a temporary suspension of fighting; a truce"

    Hamas attacking and capturing an Israeli soldier is a breaking of the ceasefire, so the ceasefire is already over, Hamas broke the ceasefire.

    Or was it Israel that broke it first? Has anybody independent of Israel or Hamas made an accusation? You're saying that Hamas broke purely because that's the official Israeli rhetoric, I assume.
    And the breaking of a ceasefire isn't permanent, surely it's in Israel's interest to at least try to regain the moral high ground after the criticism they've been under. That means using proportional force to regain the peace, not disproportionate force to ensure a premature end.
    Also worth noting that the Israelis tweeted saying that they had informed the UN that the ceasefire was over over half an hour before they made any claims to attacks against them, either that or the Hamas missiles are now equipped with anti-gravity devices.

    How do they know another soldier won't die? They don't is the answer, in fact it is likely that Hamas would simply be emboldened to attack more if Israel was to not defend itself.
    I'd bet a penny to a pound that Hamas wouldn't let that soldier die without doing everything they can to keep them alive. A captive is very useful to them for negotiating purposes, especially given they're a Second Lieutenant and allegedly related to the Defence minister. It's also worth noting that they were actually inside Gaza (Interesting how Israel puts the buffer zone in Gaza, not in their own land). If Hamas do have this man, as the IDF believe, they aren't dead unless seriously wounded.
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    Let's play the waiting game, how long before the below statement is blamed on Hamas/Palestinians/ Muslims.

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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    Your tax money is going to the Zionist forces to kill innocent civilians. You say you're a pacifist, but you pay to kill.
    I don't have any control of how the US government uses my tax money. I do think the Iron Dome was a wise investment and it makes me sad that Israel is attacking Gaza. I think Israel should just focus only on defense, and 0% on offense.

    Instead of Hamas buying rockets, Hamas should have asked for donations for something like the Iron Dome, as well as created safe shelters for the children, women and elderly. It would help fight injustice much better if they focused on protecting the children, women and elderly instead of on attacking Israel with rockets and stones.
    Israel could fly war machines over Gaza. Compared to their air to ground striking power the rockets thrown by Gaza are mere stones.
    Which is why Hamas is not making wise decisions to protect the people in Gaza.
    Israel gets a lot an awful lot of aid from the US.
    Israel was attacked on all sides by Arab states in the 6 day war. Israel's survival is considered a miracle or amazing feat by many Americans who thought Israel would be destroyed by the many Arab, Muslim-dominated states surrounding her.

    The USA has ties with Israel that Arab states don't understand:
    1. Family ties where brave men strive to protect their families, not try to use them as human shields. Many Jewish refugees immigrated to the USA and have relatives in Israel. The protection of their loved ones is very important to them.
    2. Beliefs in the 3rd regeneration/rebirth of Israel fulfilling Biblical prophecy.
    3. Empathy for European Jewish people who suffered the Holocaust, whereas the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem sided with Hitler and Arab countries did not seem to care about the Jewish Europeans suffering. (American soldiers came face to face with Nazi Germany horrors in concentration camps.)
    4. Alliance with our maternal country England, who set up the Jewish state in the land that used to be part of the Ottoman Empire but was then part of the British Empire.

    Why can't the US help Hamas to protect themselves?
    The USA would be much more willing to help Hamas if Hamas would stop with the rocket shooting into Israel and start focusing on building safe shelters for the children and women, as well as pursuing peace with Israel.

    Remember that the USA is a nation of immigrants (particularly English) that colonized Native American land. Israel is similar to the USA in that respect, though different in that the Jewish state of Israel existed 2 times before and was destroyed 2 times (first, by the Babylonians; second, by the Romans). When Jesus taught for example, he taught in the first regeneration of Israel, after Israel had been destroyed by the Babylonians and regenerated, and before Israel was destroyed for the 2nd time, by the Romans.

    Without the US the iron dome wouldn't have been a possibility.
    Without the iron dome, Hamas would be more successful at killing Israelis. Again, I personally wish that Israel would just focus on defense and not attack Gaza. The Iron Dome is defense, not offense.

    Anyway Israel has highly sophisticated weapons.
    True, like the European immigrants to America had more sophisticated weapons than the Native Americans. I'm not saying that's a good thing. I personally wish the European immigrants/descendants had treated the Native Americans well and that the 2 groups had not fought with each other. Both groups lost, since we lost dealing with issues with peace, maturity, mutual respect and kindness.

    Hamas cannot protect even its own leaders. Their homes are being struck and targeted as we speak. How could Hamas maintain discipline when it can't even operate freely?
    Where there's a will, there's a way. If Hamas truly wanted to protect their families, the first step would be to stop shooting rockets and instead to focus on the safety of their families. Shooting rockets now obviously is not protecting their families, but rather putting them in danger.
 
 
 
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