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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    *sniff sniff* I smell reductio ad Hitelrum. And it still doesn't make severe abuse of the captive correct.
    Really? He has no qualms about invading Gaza and slaughtering innocents, but we should have qualms about him having a taste of his own medicine? Actually I personally do not advocate for abuse of criminals but I would certainly not go out of my way to advocate for this criminal's well being. The people who hold him are the people whose families and friends he would not think twice about shooting in the head because he'd think it was 'self-defence' or some such bull****, I would think they're in perfect position to deal with him as they please. Even so, I highly doubt they will touch a hair on his head, as he will be essential in negotiations if Israel will be willing to stoop so low.
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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    Do you know what make love means? I'm really shocked at your statement. Hopefully it's a big misunderstanding due to cultural differences.

    When Jesus Christ comes back (which is a huge miracle, by the way, after more than 2,000 years), he will destroy the antichrist, not 'make love' with the antichrist.

    Jesus destroying the antichrist when he comes back as the King (after more than 2,000 years) does not abrogate his command for his mere mortal followers to love their enemies. His followers are not the Messiah/King; Jesus Christ is the Messiah/King and he has the authority to fulfill the rest of Psalm 2 when he comes back.
    I know statements like that which are lies hurts you. Imagine the nasty things said about my Prophet which I can totally justify as bull****, but which they still repeat? Do you think that falls under hurting your enemies?

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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    I advise you to keep your posts short, for your own good, and not to preach.
    I am free to write how I do. You are free to ignore what I write.

    You jumped the gun. I asked you some questions and you chose to ignore the killer ones.
    Just as you are free to ignore much of what I write (and you do ignore much of what I write), so I am free to ignore what I want too.

    Why didn't Jesus stop his father from advocating the killing of innocents and the raping of women? First this.
    Since Jesus did not address this issue to his followers, I cannot quote him like I can with his addressing the issue of what to do with enemies (love them: Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27-37).

    Since I am not either God or Jesus Christ, I cannot answer that.

    And also tell me how could Hamas do what you want them to do? Shelter civilians?

    ]
    This one I can answer.

    Hamas could stop shooting rockets into Israel and harboring rockets in civilian places, and instead should appeal to the world to help them create safe houses for the children and women and elderly. This would be the honorable thing to do.

    Israel, by the way, should stop attacking Gaza and should instead keep on protecting its civilians from attacks. If both groups would stop attacking each other, safe shelters would not even be needed.
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    I know statements like that which are lies hurts you. Imagine the nasty things said about my Prophet which I can totally justify as bull****, but which they still repeat? Do you think that falls under hurting your enemies?

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    Jesus is a Muslim prophet too, I highly doubt that was an Islamic thing to say. Just saying/
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    I know, sorry, that was a little too much.
    Don't apologize to me. Jesus Christ is the one you offended.
    Prophet Isa (AS) is above all those things.
    Jesus Christ is both prophet (like Moses) and Messiah/King, the son of God and yes he is most definitely above such things.


    Now, you're saying like God had the right to genocide (Noah's Flood), Jesus has the right to fulfil prophecies through violence. Talk about practicing what you preach.
    God does not have to obey the commands he gives to his creation. Jesus Christ, when he comes back as King, has to fulfill the rest of the prophecies/promises concerning him.
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    I know statements like that which are lies hurts you.
    That statement did not hurt me. I was worried about you. Insulting Jesus Christ, who is Messiah/King and will return someday, is not the wisest thing to do.
    Imagine the nasty things said about my Prophet which I can totally justify as bull****, but which they still repeat? Do you think that falls under hurting your enemies?
    Telling the facts about a mere mortal is not hurting one's enemies. If a person kills another person, saying so is not hurting them but rather is telling the truth. If a person enslaves another, saying that person enslaved the other is not hurting them but rather stating the truth. If an adult male marries a child, saying that person marries a child is not hurting them but rather stating the truth.
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    Of course they are, no matter how you look at it.

    They are radicalizing an entire generation of Palestinians. It is the evil they breed that leads gives evil such as the Al-Qassam Brigades their militants and sympathizers.

    Israel say they are only defending themselves. In reality however, they are simply digging their grave deeper and deeper.

    That is the long term outlook, that they continue to sow the seeds of their own destruction somewhere down the line.

    They have essentially lost support of Latin America, Brazil, one of the main economies of the future has cut ties with them last month. They seemingly are becoming more and more isolated, and it is about time, terrorist states such as this have no right for existence on this planet.
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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    I am free to write how I do. You are free to ignore what I write.



    Just as you are free to ignore much of what I write (and you do ignore much of what I write), so I am free to ignore what I want too.



    Since Jesus did not address this issue to his followers, I cannot quote him like I can with his addressing the issue of what to do with enemies (love them: Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27-37).

    Since I am not either God or Jesus Christ, I cannot answer that.



    This one I can answer.

    Hamas could stop shooting rockets into Israel and harboring rockets in civilian places, and instead should appeal to the world to help them create safe houses for the children and women and elderly. This would be the honorable thing to do.

    Israel, by the way, should stop attacking Gaza and should instead keep on protecting its civilians from attacks. If both groups would stop attacking each other, safe shelters would not even be needed.
    Agreed and agreed. What did I ignore, that was by mistake. If you really want an answer ask it again and emphasize it.

    Now you did a grievous mistake. You fell to the trap all Christian I have asked this before fell. You didn't even deny that God did encourage the killing of civilians and raping of women. You didn't. You didn't. You didn't.

    Okay. Hamas does not want to surrender.

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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    Really? He has no qualms about invading Gaza and slaughtering innocents, but we should have qualms about him having a taste of his own medicine? Actually I personally do not advocate for abuse of criminals but I would certainly not go out of my way to advocate for this criminal's well being. The people who hold him are the people whose families and friends he would not think twice about shooting in the head because he'd think it was 'self-defence' or some such bull****, I would think they're in perfect position to deal with him as they please. Even so, I highly doubt they will touch a hair on his head, as he will be essential in negotiations if Israel will be willing to stoop so low.
    Israel shouldn't be there, they shouldn't have the blockade of Gaza, they shouldn't be in the West Bank, but that doesn't mean that Hamas can ignore the law wrt captive IDF men. They're a PoW, they have no reason to harm them because given their rank and being a cousin, albeit second or third, of the Defence Minister he is a VERY valuable chip to play.
    While probably not the case for this particular soldier, you also have to remember that there is conscription in Israel, so it is not necessarily true that a soldier in the IDF supports actions in Gaza.
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    (Original post by felamuzlem)
    Get off your high horse.
    Is that comment considered professional in debates in your country? Just curious.
    Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. Samuel 15:3 or something like that

    And millions more.
    I do not follow the Torah. I follow Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did not teach his followers to attack other people, but rather to love their enemies (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27-37).
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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    Jesus is a Muslim prophet too, I highly doubt that was an Islamic thing to say. Just saying/


    Yes. It wasn't.
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    (Original post by Agapelove)


    I do not follow the Torah. I follow Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did not teach his followers to attack other people, but rather to love their enemies (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27-37).
    Why didn't Jesus stop his father from saying these things? Was his morality standards different?



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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    When you have thousands of rockets shot at Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Ashkelon, Jaffa, and even Bethlehem and Hebron, what would you do? care about left wing trash who condemn Israel no matter WHAT it does, or do something about the rocket attacks?
    And by do something, you mean target hospitals, shelters, schools, refugee camps and UN buildings, killing more civilians than have died on your own soil?
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    Agreed and agreed. What did I ignore, that was by mistake. If you really want an answer ask it again and emphasize it.
    I would have to go way back and look, and I have to go to work soon, so I can't. Thanks though for the offer.
    Now you did a grievous mistake. You fell to the trap all Christian I have asked this before fell. You didn't even deny that God did encourage the killing of civilians and raping of women. You didn't. You didn't. You didn't.
    Personally, I don't understand why God allowed genocides in the Old Testament. Since God is God though and I'm not, I don't try to deny what is in the Old Testament but rather I focus on Jesus' teachings. Jesus brings the New Covenant which is for both Jews and Gentiles. The Torah is for the Jewish people, though many Jewish followers of Jesus believe they no longer need to obey many of the commands in the Torah.

    As for me, I don't sacrifice animals for sin and burnt offerings like the Torah commands. I don't kill people who commit certain sins like the Torah commands. While I don't eat pork, I don't observe the festivals God commands in the Torah, though actually my Jewish Christian friends have taught me about them and I think I would like to observe the next Passover and other festivals God commands (without sacrificing animals).

    As a Gentile Christian, I follow what Jesus says. I belong to the New Covenant God gives both Jews and Gentiles through Jesus Christ.

    Okay. Hamas does not want to surrender.
    Focusing on protecting the children and women is not surrendering in my opinion, and fighting civil rights issues with nonviolence is also not surrendering, but is rather the best way to convict people.
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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    That statement did not hurt me. I was worried about you. Insulting Jesus Christ, who is Messiah/King and will return someday, is not the wisest thing to do.
    Should I ask forgiveness from Jesus or from God? Should I go to a confession in a catholic church?

    Am I his enemy? Will his followers love me if I was?

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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    When you have thousands of rockets shot at Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Ashkelon, Jaffa, and even Bethlehem and Hebron, what would you do? care about left wing trash who condemn Israel no matter WHAT it does, or do something about the rocket attacks?
    Many of these governments and political figures don't generally criticise Israel much if at all.

    In that respect, they're somewhat like myself. I'm fairly neutral on the whole thing but feel that Israel's response is disproportionate and shows a wanton lack of concern for civilian casualties.

    It's the neutrals like me, or former supporters like the government members above, that Israel have to be careful about alienating. To make a response like you did is simply sticking your head in the sand as to the repercussions and reality of global sentiment.
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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    I would have to go way back and look, and I have to go to work soon, so I can't. Thanks though for the offer.


    Personally, I don't understand why God allowed genocides in the Old Testament. Since God is God though and I'm not, I don't try to deny what is in the Old Testament but rather I focus on Jesus' teachings. Jesus brings the New Covenant which is for both Jews and Gentiles. The Torah is for the Jewish people, though many Jewish followers of Jesus believe they no longer need to obey many of the commands in the Torah.

    As for me, I don't sacrifice animals for sin and burnt offerings like the Torah commands. I don't kill people who commit certain sins like the Torah commands. While I don't eat pork, I don't observe the festivals God commands in the Torah, though actually my Jewish Christian friends have taught me about them and I think I would like to observe the next Passover and other festivals God commands (without sacrificing animals).

    As a Gentile Christian, I follow what Jesus says. I belong to the New Covenant God gives both Jews and Gentiles through Jesus Christ.



    Focusing on protecting the children and women is not surrendering in my opinion, and fighting civil rights issues with nonviolence is also not surrendering, but is rather the best way to convict people.
    So if you can tolerate "genocides" of the OT why can't you tolerate the lesser Jihad against oppression and Jihad for conquest in a righteous way as in the Quran?

    Because Jesus change the rules? Now can't you see the hypocrisy. If you lived as a follower of Moses won't you be going about preaching genocide? Deny it?

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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    When you have thousands of rockets shot at Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Ashkelon, Jaffa, and even Bethlehem and Hebron, what would you do? care about left wing trash who condemn Israel no matter WHAT it does, or do something about the rocket attacks?
    Awwwww man, here we go, the 'well Hamas do this.....waaaaaaaaahhhhhhh waaaaaahhhhhh!!!' go ****ing cry about it somewhere else.

    Israel have their iron dome which keeps their own people safe for the most part. Thus they have absolutely no reason to respond to the rocket attacks in the nature that they are doing. I'm not saying well they have the iron dome, so sit back and do nothing...not at all, so don't bother with that angle.

    What I am saying, is that when militants are allegedly spotted firing from hospitals for example, there is nothing to justify targeting that hospital with ****ing missiles. You seem to believe that people have an issue with Israel defending itself...they don't, people have an issue with Israel bombing densely populated areas, bombing schools, kids playing on the beach, hospitals, houses etc and then justifying the huge civilian collateral as human shields = Hamas' fault.

    I'm sorry, but no, every single civilian casualty is not Hamas' fault. The people of Israel are largely safe and sound, thus the destruction they are bring to the people of Gaza is not called for whatsoever. They have a military fully capable of taking on the Al-Qassam Brigades, greatly reducing the number of civilian casualties. Yes it will increase the number of dead Israeli soldiers, but unless you value the lives of Israeli soldiers (people who signed up knowing they could die) above innocent civilians, then I don't see a problem with that.
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    Why didn't Jesus stop his father from saying these things? Was his morality standards different?
    Since I am not either the Father in Heaven or Jesus Christ, I cannot give the best answer. However, I suppose I can give my personal humble opinion as a mere mortal.

    I personally think people have been evolving in a way, where in Moses' time the people were less able to understand what people can understand now. I think God sent Jesus around 2,000 years ago because people were a bit more 'evolved' (for lack of a better term) and Jesus' teachings greatly helped people evolve even more to be able to be peaceful people who chose nonviolence instead of violence to resolve conflicts.

    While granted there are people who deliberately choose violence instead of nonviolence to resolve conflicts, I personally am of the opinion that nonviolent ways to resolve conflict is much more 'evolved' than violent ways.

    For example, my husband and I do not resolve conflicts through violence against each other. We resolve conflict by holding hands and communicating. If we tried to hurt each other, first I'd be dead cause my husband is much stronger and bigger than me, and second our marriage would not be strong or evolving/maturing.

    Another example, although you and I disagree in some areas, we are not hurting each other. We are communicating. While we continue to disagree, the fact that we can communicate without physically hurting each other shows maturity.

    Sadly, i don't think either Israel or Hamas is showing maturity in attacking each other. I think they both need to mature by handling conflict with nonviolence.

    Anyways, again to your question, while I'm not God or Jesus Christ to answer the question, my humble mere mortal opinion is that people in that time were not as mature in understanding how to handle conflict nonviolently at that time.
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    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...on-dome-hamas/

    The UN just condemned Israel for 'war crimes' whatever that means and then said it should share Iron Dome with Hamas. Why would anyone share their defence thing with Hamas? Who exactly is attacking Hamas that isn't already being attacked by Hamas?

    Stupid logic.
 
 
 
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