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    Head to heads are an extremely poor way of judging who is superior unless you weight the surfaces equally (Rafa still wins but by a smaller margin because half Fedal matches are on clay).
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Head to heads are an extremely poor way of judging who is superior unless you weight the surfaces equally (Rafa still wins but by a smaller margin because half Fedal matches are on clay).
    and why dont we weight them equally? federer over the last decade is one of the best 3 clay court players in the world isnt he? h2d is the purest form of judging someone, across all types of courts.
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    and why dont we weight them equally? federer over the last decade is one of the best 3 clay court players in the world isnt he? h2d is the purest form of judging someone, across all types of courts.
    Aye. From 04-12 at the French Open he only lost to eventual finalists, the current champion or former champions.
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    on a side point, watched some of the atp 500 today, its so hard to watch rafa like this. mentally shot, i dont think he has the confidence anymore to do those corner perfect forehands, missed nearly every one he attempted today, and i think, he is in trouble, just generally he doesnt really look like he gives a **** anymore. really sad how quickly this has happened, the old rafa is gone.
    Don't ever ever rule the bull out.
    You must've forgotten about the year 2013 and 2010 my friend.
    At 100%:
    Nadal>Fed>Djokovic
    E.g wimby 2012- both fed and nole were close to 100.
    Wimby 2008- no explanation needed
    U.S. open 2013- Nadal destroyed nolé hands down with the forehand up the line. And even at the French 2013 I have never seen nole play a better match.

    End off!
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Aye. From 04-12 at the French Open he only lost to eventual finalists, the current champion or former champions.
    You forgot the man... YES THE STAN 2015!!
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    head to head over a samploe size of 35 matches means nothing?
    where does davydenko rank amongst the best of all time? and since when does 6-5 mean anything lol? youre stating that number one and two of all time, who played in the exact same era, and one has a record of 23-10, lol, and that means nothing. ok then. before you tell me that andy roddick would destroy nadal, relax.

    23-10 v the second best of all time, is not "nothing", its everything, its how people rate those from the same era, obviously.


    just looked up the grand slam h2h. 9 freaking-2. of which only 5 are on clay, so 4-2 still to nadal lol! federer had some **** opposition before the other big 3 came on, he really did.
    Lol dude calm down, im just saying you shouldn't read into head to heads as much as people do...and no I'm not going to tell you that Andy roddick could beat nadal...


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    (Original post by Rkai01)
    You forgot the man... YES THE STAN 2015!!
    Only talking consecutive.

    Adding in the other tournaments it's also impressive..

    04-12: French Open - Ex/reigning champions or finalists
    03-10: Wimbledon - Beaten by finalists
    04-11: US Open - Beaten by finalists or reigning champion.
    04-14: Australian Open - Beaten only by finalists, ex/reigning champions
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    (Original post by Rkai01)
    Don't ever ever rule the bull out.
    You must've forgotten about the year 2013 and 2010 my friend.
    At 100%:
    Nadal>Fed>Djokovic
    E.g wimby 2012- both fed and nole were close to 100.
    Wimby 2008- no explanation needed
    U.S. open 2013- Nadal destroyed nolé hands down with the forehand up the line. And even at the French 2013 I have never seen nole play a better match.

    End off!
    I think Rafa is only hands down better than Federer and Djokovic on clay. On grass Federer is hands down better than Rafa and Djokovic when all are at 100% and Federer is probably again better than Rafa and Djokovic when 100% on hard courts, including Djokovic being better than Rafa when 100% on hard courts, at US Open '13 he choked away the 3rd set and with it the match, although Rafa did play a good match, that definitely wasn't Djokovic at 100%.
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    (Original post by ThatMadClown)
    Lol dude calm down, im just saying you shouldn't read into head to heads as much as people do...and no I'm not going to tell you that Andy roddick could beat nadal...


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    hey buddy, im alright haha, im just grateful we get to see the two best ever, fight it out in the same era, and alongside novak, have just the best matches ever. watching Wimbledon 08 highlights right now.
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    and why dont we weight them equally? federer over the last decade is one of the best 3 clay court players in the world isnt he? h2d is the purest form of judging someone, across all types of courts.
    Do you even watch tennis? The point of tennis is to win tournaments, not to preserve positive H2Hs against as many players as possible.

    brb Federer should have tanked in the first round of the French Open every year, which would apparently make him a better player according to you.

    As an aside, if you think Federer's competition was poor, does that not reflect rather badly on Nadal, given that he only had to beat weak-era champ Federer in so many slam finals? Must be an incredibly weak clay era in that case...
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    Do you even watch tennis? The point of tennis is to win tournaments, not to preserve positive H2Hs against as many players as possible.

    brb Federer should have tanked in the first round of the French Open every year, which would apparently make him a better player according to you.

    As an aside, if you think Federer's competition was poor, does that not reflect rather badly on Nadal, given that he only had to beat weak-era champ Federer in so many slam finals? Must be an incredibly weak clay era in that case...
    Lol agreed...I don't tend to get into arguments where people bring in this weak era nonsense...I'm a federer fan but give full credit to nadal and his head to head against federer, but at the end of the day people will more likely remember tournaments won rather than head to head..and I'm not demoralising nadals head to head in any way or form


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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    Do you even watch tennis? The point of tennis is to win tournaments, not to preserve positive H2Hs against as many players as possible.

    brb Federer should have tanked in the first round of the French Open every year, which would apparently make him a better player according to you.

    As an aside, if you think Federer's competition was poor, does that not reflect rather badly on Nadal, given that he only had to beat weak-era champ Federer in so many slam finals? Must be an incredibly weak clay era in that case...
    and when excatly have nadal and federer faced each other? in the first round of each tourney they play? what a crap argument, you say the point is to win tournaments. when do nadal and federer play each other lol? thats correct, literally just semis and finals, of, you guessed it, tournaments.
    federer was not weak, if you could read i said federer is the second best of all time, that just means he was better than those around him at the time. novak and nadal are here now.

    and also as an aside, head to head will always be remembered between the two, its just so vast.
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    and when excatly have nadal and federer faced each other? in the first round of each tourney they play? what a crap argument, you say the point is to win tournaments. when do nadal and federer play each other lol? thats correct, literally just semis and finals, of, you guessed it, tournaments.
    federer was not weak, if you could read i said federer is the second best of all time, that just means he was better than those around him at the time. novak and nadal are here now.

    and also as an aside, head to head will always be remembered between the two, its just so vast.
    Are you saying nadal is better than federer?


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    (Original post by ThatMadClown)
    Are you saying nadal is better than federer?


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    nope. im saying pigs can fly.
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    nope. im saying pigs can fly.
    Yeah because apparently people will altogether forget federer's achievements at tournaments simply to remember he has a losing record against one of the greats...


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    (Original post by lizzy95)
    I think Rafa is only hands down better than Federer and Djokovic on clay. On grass Federer is hands down better than Rafa and Djokovic when all are at 100% and Federer is probably again better than Rafa and Djokovic when 100% on hard courts, including Djokovic being better than Rafa when 100% on hard courts, at US Open '13 he choked away the 3rd set and with it the match, although Rafa did play a good match, that definitely wasn't Djokovic at 100%.
    I Think you're getting tied up. I believe nolé was at 100%. Up until the end of the third set the match was anyone's guess. But nole mentally broke down like 13 Wimbledon. That doesn't mean he is not 100% playing level. You have to understand someone's mental game is part of their entire game. So a 100% nolé takes into account the outbursts and mental fatigue.
    As they say mind over matter.
    Yes to some extent nolé beat himself but again this was partly due to rafas presence.
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    and why dont we weight them equally? federer over the last decade is one of the best 3 clay court players in the world isnt he? h2d is the purest form of judging someone, across all types of courts.
    Errr...what?



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    (Original post by Rkai01)
    I Think you're getting tied up. I believe nolé was at 100%. Up until the end of the third set the match was anyone's guess. But nole mentally broke down like 13 Wimbledon. That doesn't mean he is not 100% playing level. You have to understand someone's mental game is part of their entire game. So a 100% nolé takes into account the outbursts and mental fatigue.
    As they say mind over matter.
    Yes to some extent nolé beat himself but again this was partly due to rafas presence.
    Maybe, maybe not. Only person who knows for sure is Djokovic. In my opinion he's played better matches against Rafa, hence why I said he wasn't 100% and his mental approach was certainly lacking too which seems to again show her was less than 100%. Either way I think Djokovic is the more natural hard court player and a 100% Djokovic would beat a 100% Rafa but that's just in my humble opinion
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    (Original post by ThatMadClown)
    Errr...what?



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    I think what hes trying to say is when theyve both retired and people debate who the GOAT is, assuming Rafa wins a few more GS, theyll point to his superior head to head.
 
 
 
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