How can I stop paying for the NHS? Watch

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DH-Biker
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#401
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#401
(Original post by Jordenfruitbat)
Wow less than I thought even What can you buy with that a couple of mc donalds seriously, what is his problem paying such a small contribution to the NHS which saves lives.
Exactly.

I haven't read through their arguments, but I assume they are all preaching the goodness of Private Healthcare?

Well, that's all fine and dandy. Let them preach all that goodness when they have an accident, and PHC doesn't send an ambulance, and PHC's famous A&E department is mysteriously not there.

I don't know what his problem is, but if they can't support something that those who survived World War Two came together to create, in aid of so many millions who had been devastated by it, then that's their loss.
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moonkatt
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#402
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(Original post by tehFrance)
Or the OP isn't a socialist?
from other threads he's made, I'd lean more in the direction of troll.
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DH-Biker
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#403
(Original post by tehFrance)
Or the OP isn't a socialist?
You don't have to be a Socialist to support the NHS.

In fact, even Margaret Thatcher said, "The NHS is safe with us".

And she was about as Conservative as it gets. :rolleyes:
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jesusandtequila
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#404
(Original post by DH-Biker)
Closer to £98.6 billion.
Budget 2011: http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/2011budget_complete.pdf

Chart 1: Health: £126bn/year.

I underestimated, sorry.

Forty million tax payers paying £4 is obviously one-hundred and sixty million. This isn't even a quarter of one billion, so you're quite right, it wouldn't make up for it.

In fact, to make up for that, everyone would have to pay something like £1,500 odd each?

I assure you; a person doesn't pay £1,500 towards the NHS every month.
It's about £3000/year, but I think the paragraph above just showed how bad your maths there was.

In fact, most of the money towards the NHS is funded throughout organizations, I believe.
No no, it comes from general taxation. What are these 'organisations' you speak of?

Your joe-average tax payer pays no more for tax towards the NHS per month then they do towards a pack of cigarettes.
If we take someone on 30/day, coming in at about £250/month, then you're about right - that's £3K/year, which is far, far more than £1-4/year.
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jesusandtequila
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#405
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#405
(Original post by Jordenfruitbat)
This what a stupid analogy to make, you really are grasping at straws your argument does not work at all :rolleyes:
Oh right, you don't actually have a counter-argument so you dismiss it without reason. Well done.
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tehFrance
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#406
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#406
(Original post by DH-Biker)
You don't have to be a Socialist to support the NHS.

In fact, even Margaret Thatcher said, "The NHS is safe with us".

And she was about as Conservative as it gets. :rolleyes:
Thatcher wasn't far enough right...

Tbh the NHS just needs to be restructured into something that works not the current system that managers/gp abuse.
TulipFields
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#407
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#407
(Original post by jesusandtequila)
Then if you don't mind, you'd do it voluntarily - and hand your car over, indeed there would be no need for it to be compulsory in the first place.



So why is the analogy crap or the argument meaningless? It's lovely of you to dismiss it in such a way without actually making any points.
If I hand y car to them voluntarily, would they take care of my car, or chaffeur me around? No, they won't.
When we pay taxes to government, does it give it back to us, via the services it provides? Yes
Analogy is crap, because cars are important to the way of life, but are not essential. I can choose to walk to my uni, but I can't choose not to have my injuries treated, should the need arise.
P.S I don't have a car, I use public transport, which is funnily enough privatised and I pay for its services anyway.
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Jordenfruitbat
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#408
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(Original post by jesusandtequila)
Oh right, you don't actually have a counter-argument so you dismiss it without reason. Well done.
I don't even know how to counter argument it because it's stupid, they aren't stealing with violence or anything bad like that and its not, they are taking such a small insignifcant sum out of your wages to fund the NHS which ultimately saves lives. It is not akin to theft of any kind it helps our society to keep moving. If you have a problem with this you should leave, you are extremely selfish to want to horde such a small sum of money that could help someone
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FlamingIceCubez
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#409
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#409
(Original post by isaqyi)
I am considering getting private health insurance, but no longer wish to contribute to the NHS as it is the worst healthcare system in Western Europe. I do not see it as my responsibility to pay for other peoples' healthcare, when I am more than willing to pay for my own.
Is there any way I can stop the British public stealing my money to pay for their healthcare?
Edit: I might have known that the extreme far left would have taken a disliking to my post.
Do us, and yourself, a favour and move out of the country.
That's how.
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Libtardian
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#410
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#410
(Original post by Jordenfruitbat)
I don't even know how to counter argument it
I suspect a lack of knowledge or the ability to use it. :rolleyes:

(Original post by DH-Biker)
You don't have to be a Socialist to support the NHS.

In fact, even Margaret Thatcher said, "The NHS is safe with us".

And she was about as Conservative as it gets. :rolleyes:
Just because she said she wouldn't get rid of it doesn't mean she agreed with it.

I've heard the UKIP crew talking about this, getting rid of socialism straight away would not be possible to due to the level of dissent it would cause, it would have to be phased out over time as the stupid is too strong.
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jesusandtequila
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#411
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(Original post by TulipFields)
If I hand y car to them voluntarily, would they take care of my car, or chaffeur me around? No, they won't.
When we pay taxes to government, does it give it back to us, via the services it provides? Yes
They might do, you'd be striking a deal - as we do all the time when we buy and sell stuff. "You have my car the rest of the time, but chauffeur me around when I need to, deal?"

Government may give you a bicycle, hell, even a different car - but the point remains that they've stolen the car originally, and the fact that some things are given does not make the taking OK. Else, I'll steal your car, your TV and your computer, and I'll give you a sheep, some speakers and some clothes. I've still stolen your items, and the fact that I've given you other ones is neither here nor there.

Analogy is crap, because cars are important to the way of life, but are not essential. I can choose to walk to my uni, but I can't choose not to have my injuries treated, should the need arise.
P.S I don't have a car, I use public transport, which is funnily enough privatised and I pay for its services anyway.
:facepalm2:

Just because a car isn't essential to the way of life doesn't stop it being immoral for them to steal it. It doesn't make it moral for one man, five men, twenty men or 60 million men to steal it either. It doesn't make it moral for 60 million men to elect someone to steal your car, and no, it doesn't make it moral that they choose to give you some stuff back either.
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Jordenfruitbat
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(Original post by otester)
I suspect a lack of knowledge or the ability to use it. :rolleyes:
Or you could like read my whole argument instead of quoting the beginning bit of it to make yourself look cool?
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DH-Biker
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#413
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#413
(Original post by jesusandtequila)
Budget 2011: http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/2011budget_complete.pdf

Chart 1: Health: £126bn/year.

I underestimated, sorry.

It's about £3000/year, but I think the paragraph above just showed how bad your maths there was.

No no, it comes from general taxation. What are these 'organisations' you speak of?

If we take someone on 30/day, coming in at about £250/month, then you're about right - that's £3K/year, which is far, far more than £1-4/year.
That just summarizes as "Health" though; it doesn't directly facilitate the tax income for the NHS by tax-payers alone. There will be other areas that fall under that cost.

Alas, I was looking at the 2009/2010 annum cost, apologies on that front.

If it is £126 billion per year, then yes, my maths would be out. For £98~ then yes, it was correct.

If you're seriously suggesting everyone in the country pays £3,000 a year alone for the NHS, you're a fool. There will be massive amounts paid in by contractors who provide the medicine, the medical equipment, ambulances, etc etc.

I never said it was £1-£4 per year, I said it was that per month.

I still don't understand what your disagreement with the NHS is. I use it regularly, I fall off my bike a lot, and I've always had perfect service. I pay taxes towards the NHS, I don't mind paying it. No one should, if they still follow the principals of people who are happy supporting each other.

Don't like that, go to America; the Ambulance crews check a person's identity; if they can't fund the costs; they leave them. If you want to be a part of a system like that, move there. Otherwise, you stay and you contribute just like everyone else who pays taxes.
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jesusandtequila
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(Original post by Jordenfruitbat)
I don't even know how to counter argument it because it's stupid, they aren't stealing with violence or anything bad like that
If you don't pay your tax (i.e. hand your car over), they will imprison you and take away your liberty. That's not a threat of violence, no?

and its not, they are taking such a small insignifcant sum out of your wages to fund the NHS which ultimately saves lives
40% of all income, pretty much across the board goes to the government, which means we get 60%. So, no, it's not a small amount, at all. That £1-4 figure was a complete and utter fabrication.

It is not akin to theft
Forcible taking of property isn't theft?

If you have a problem with this you should leave
Just as the person who's car is stolen should move to a different neighbourhood?

you are extremely selfish to want to horde such a small sum of money that could help someone
Ah, and a lovely ad hominem. Actually, I give where I can to causes I believe are worthy. The key is that it's voluntary.
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TulipFields
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(Original post by jesusandtequila)
They might do, you'd be striking a deal - as we do all the time when we buy and sell stuff. "You have my car the rest of the time, but chauffeur me around when I need to, deal?"

Government may give you a bicycle, hell, even a different car - but the point remains that they've stolen the car originally, and the fact that some things are given does not make the taking OK. Else, I'll steal your car, your TV and your computer, and I'll give you a sheep, some speakers and some clothes. I've still stolen your items, and the fact that I've given you other ones is neither here nor there.


:facepalm2:

Just because a car isn't essential to the way of life doesn't stop it being immoral for them to steal it. It doesn't make it moral for one man, five men, twenty men or 60 million men to steal it either. It doesn't make it moral for 60 million men to elect someone to steal your car, and no, it doesn't make it moral that they choose to give you some stuff back either.
Which is why they are not stealing my car, or my computer, or my dresses. They are taking a bit of money from me, money which I will use in one form or another in my lifetime. In any case, taxes are not theft, and even if we scrape NHS, you'd still be taxed, if you move to America , you'd still get taxed
You really are clutching at the straws, and if you dont understand why we are taxed and how it benefits us, I seriously doubt that you should facepalm me
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Jordenfruitbat
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#416
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(Original post by jesusandtequila)
If you don't pay your tax (i.e. hand your car over), they will imprison you and take away your liberty. That's not a threat of violence, no?


40% of all income, pretty much across the board goes to the government, which means we get 60%. So, no, it's not a small amount, at all. That £1-4 figure was a complete and utter fabrication.


Forcible taking of property isn't theft?


Just as the person who's car is stolen should move to a different neighbourhood?


Ah, and a lovely ad hominem. Actually, I give where I can to causes I believe are worthy. The key is that it's voluntary.
It's still not violent, if you avoid paying you should go to prison it's not theft, you don't even see the money you are taxed on so why are you worrying about it so much, it really is such a small insignificanct amount you are ridiculous for thinking you are being robbed, leave this country now. We will be better off without you. If you earn money you should be expected to help others rather than hoarding all your money for yourself. You will end up using this money they tax you on anyway, you or your family will have some sort of health problem in your life time so your not being robbed.
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Picnic1
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#417
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(Original post by OrmondDrone)
It's the principle of mutual reciprocity. If you want to be a selfish ******* then go and live in the USA.
What is selfish about not wanting to pay in to a system that they have opted out of ever using?

Some things need to be taxed. For instance, people generally can't do all they want by using private, rather than public, roads.

But they can do all that want by using private, rather than NHS, hospitals.
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jesusandtequila
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#418
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(Original post by DH-Biker)
That just summarizes as "Health" though; it doesn't directly facilitate the tax income for the NHS by tax-payers alone. There will be other areas that fall under that cost.
From the comprehensive spending review, £105.9bn for England and Wales - but then you've also got less taxpayers because all we're doing is excluding Scotland & N.Ireland.

If it is £126 billion per year, then yes, my maths would be out. For £98~ then yes, it was correct.
No, no you weren't.

If you're seriously suggesting everyone in the country pays £3,000 a year alone for the NHS, you're a fool. There will be massive amounts paid in by contractors who provide the medicine, the medical equipment, ambulances, etc etc.
Firstly, the budget is what government spends - £126bn/year. Even if you were correct that 'contractors paid in massive amounts', it wouldn't change the fact that £126bn comes from government. However:

The government pays for the medical equipment, ambulances, doctors, upkeep of hospital etc. That IS the £126bn cost, and the fact that you think it somehow magically gets paid IN by the very people who are getting paid is utterly bizarre.

I never said it was £1-£4 per year, I said it was that per month.
In your initial post, you never mentioned timeframe, however, since spending decisions and tax returns are done annually, it's not a bad assumption to make that you were speaking annually. However:

£12-48/year is nowhere near the actual cost of £3000.
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emmanuella9
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#419
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I don't think you can unless you got for tax evasion. Also, you realise your National Insurance covers not just the NHS but Police force and Firemen too? If you have EVER used these services and wish to in the future, continue paying. O.o
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Libtardian
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#420
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(Original post by emmanuella9)
I don't think you can unless you got for tax evasion. Also, you realise your National Insurance covers not just the NHS but Police force and Firemen too? If you have EVER used these services and wish to in the future, continue paying. O.o
I'd rather pick my own services.
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