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    (Original post by Observatory)
    That you took an obvious joke post as a serious cue to bash Israel.
    I don't know about "Bash".

    It seemed you were portraying Israel as an example of a classic victim of unfounded vitriol.

    They receive more aid from the west than any other nation and use it to violently suppress the autonomy of a people.

    it's not relevant to the thread though, I'll concede that.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The poster called for a "one party right wing state". You don't think that's fascism? :confused:
    Considering that fascism, or national socialism is a left wing ideology it would be hard for it to favour free market in the way ukip does. Hence why ukip is the party of true freedom.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Considering that fascism, or national socialism is a left wing ideology it would be hard for it to favour free market in the way ukip does. Hence why ukip is the party of true freedom.
    Did you really just claim Fascism is a left wing ideology?

    I'm insulted.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Did you really just claim Fascism is a left wing ideology?

    I'm insulted.
    It is definitely not right wing. So there is only one logical conclusion after that.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    It is definitely not right wing. So there is only one logical conclusion after that.
    ..... Are you joking?
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    ..... Are you joking?
    It's become a standard feature of rightist discourse (imported from US New Right headbangers) to claim that Nazism and fascism generally were left wing movements. They base this bizarre narrative on the proposition that they were basically Statist and therefore lefties and that the German Nazis used the word "Socialist" in their official name - apparently the New Right are not overly familiar with the concept of what we humans refer to as 'lying'.

    Coming up with contrary arguments that most people might find convincing, like "how come then the Nazis sent the left to concentration camps?" or "why did they abolish trade unions?" cut no ice. These are minds made up.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Like Farage actually wants to pull out of the EU anyway, it pays his wages. He's got his snout in the trough just like the rest of 'em.
    (Original post by Morgsie)
    Nigel Farage is a populist ****
    As someone who opposes UKIP, these aren't really fair statements.

    Farage has actually stated on many occasions that he'd be the "only turkey to vote for Christmas". He makes far, far less than he did when he worked in the City. In fact, with the amount of his own income he's spending on campaigning, he's not particularly well off at all at the moment.

    Making personal attacks really just strengthens the opposition and is naive at best. Keeping your head in the sand won't help you get your point across.
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    (Original post by Bulbasaur)
    As someone who opposes UKIP, these aren't really fair statements.

    Farage has actually stated on many occasions that he'd be the "only turkey to vote for Christmas". He makes far, far less than he did when he worked in the City. In fact, with the amount of his own income he's spending on campaigning, he's not particularly well off at all at the moment.

    Making personal attacks really just strengthens the opposition and is naive at best. Keeping your head in the sand won't help you get your point across.
    He often seems shifty when questioned about this area of his life - once the press gets of it's lazy EU-baiting backside and starts digging into his lazy EU-baiting behind, I'm sure some nice juicy morsels of negativity will emerge about it.
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    ..... Are you joking?
    Fascism / Communism drink from the same milk.

    They seek to centralize power and control everyday life.

    Fascism seeks to control the means of production, where as Communism seeks to own it.

    Fascism also believes in Social healthcare, and a welfare state. Again, Leftist tendencies.

    So this is completely against the principles of individualism which the liberated Right stand up for. Ergo, fascism was, never is or will ever be a "Right Wing" ideology.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    He often seems shifty when questioned about this area of his life - once the press gets of it's lazy EU-baiting backside and starts digging into his lazy EU-baiting behind, I'm sure some nice juicy morsels of negativity will emerge about it.
    The man is clean as a whistle, and is one of the only real politicians that care about other people in the country.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's become a standard feature of rightist discourse (imported from US New Right headbangers) to claim that Nazism and fascism generally were left wing movements. They base this bizarre narrative on the proposition that they were basically Statist and therefore lefties and that the German Nazis used the word "Socialist" in their official name - apparently the New Right are not overly familiar with the concept of what we humans refer to as 'lying'.

    Coming up with contrary arguments that most people might find convincing, like "how come then the Nazis sent the left to concentration camps?" or "why did they abolish trade unions?" cut no ice. These are minds made up.
    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    ..... Are you joking?
    Agreed it's insane.

    As a Fascist myself, all I can say is...I am not left.
    And no right thinking(no pun intended) individual would classify it as a leftist ideology or political stance.

    I don't even know where to start.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Fascism / Communism drink from the same milk.

    They seek to centralize power and control everyday life.

    Fascism seeks to control the means of production, where as Communism seeks to own it.

    Fascism also believes in Social healthcare, and a welfare state. Again, Leftist tendencies.

    So this is completely against the principles of individualism which the liberated Right stand up for. Ergo, fascism was, never is or will ever be a "Right Wing" ideology.
    Yea let's just forget the fact that we are Totalitarian in nature(right)
    We are against immigration and multi-culturalism(right)
    We are strongly millitant(right)
    We reinforce typical gender roles(right)
    Have a tendency to promote tradition and cultural values(right)
    We are profundly Antiliberalism Anticommunism both of which are left positions(right)
    Centralization of power is not a strictly left position to take, if the centreliazation were to be put in the hands of the populace, then yes I would agree.
    Fascism however tends to put it in the hands of the state, often one individual charismatic leader.

    At absolute worst it can be described as a centrist doctrine due to (like most parties...UKIP especially included) it's tendency to take some ideas and concepts that are strongly held by the Left.

    To quote the Wiki for what it's worth
    Fascism is commonly described as "extreme right" although some writers have found placing fascism on a conventional left-right political spectrum difficult.Fascism was influenced by both left and right, conservative and anti-conservative, national and supranational, rational and anti-rational.A number of historians have regarded fascism either as a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a doctrine which mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those things.
    Hell UKIP promotes Social Healthcare and a Welfare state, I suppose UKIP is not a Leftist party?
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Fascism / Communism drink from the same milk.

    They seek to centralize power and control everyday life.

    Fascism seeks to control the means of production, where as Communism seeks to own it.

    Fascism also believes in Social healthcare, and a welfare state. Again, Leftist tendencies.

    So this is completely against the principles of individualism which the liberated Right stand up for. Ergo, fascism was, never is or will ever be a "Right Wing" ideology.

    One question.

    Is everyone who is left wing a communist?
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    One question.

    Is everyone who is left wing a communist?
    In some part, very great or very small. Yes.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    In some part, very great or very small. Yes.
    Woe is me.
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    Woe is me.
    I think that it is better to consider the Left - Right scale in terms of Collectivist - Individualist. This a much more accurate representation of the way things are.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    I think that it is better to consider the Left - Right scale in terms of Collectivist - Individualist. This a much more accurate representation of the way things are.
    True.

    And extreme individualism is?
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    And extreme individualism is?
    Libertarianism. :facepalm:
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    (Original post by The Mad Dog)
    Libertarianism. :facepalm:
    The operative word is extreme. Fascism cannot be defined purely in left/right wing terms.

    It's a waste of time to even try.
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    The operative word is extreme. Fascism cannot be defined purely in left/right wing terms.

    It's a waste of time to even try.
    You asked what extreme individualism is I gave you an answer and you've just babbled back at me about fascism. WTF.
 
 
 
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