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    (Original post by FlavaFavourFruit)
    The fact that she's foreign shouldn't matter at the moment. She's explicit stated she will commit suicide if her needs aren't met.

    I would first of all look at the number of weeks the foetus is at so it will be 16 weeks which means abortion any under circumstances will be legal.

    Assess her capacity and if she completely understand the information I've told her, the risks then I would use my judgement to decide if she has capacity. My suspicious are just suspicions, they are not facts and I wouldn't raise them at all. Cultural beliefs can mean a lot of things...

    The mothers safety and well being is very important, we have a duty to care and do good for our patients. I have to respect her autonomy if she's competent.
    Before carrying this abortion, I would have to probably consider any psychological factors affecting her and perhaps get a psycharist to assess her because suicide isn't abnormal...
    2 doctors have to agree before an abortion can be carried out.



    I would abort the baby...because if I don't, I see the patient could be harmed from this decision and she may go to illegal abortion clinics.

    In this scenario, one thing you'd probably have to stress is that the decision must be taken in a multi-discplinary team with a psychiatrist as well as the physician to assess what to do in the situation.
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    (Original post by Secret.)
    If it had been say 30 weeks, I understand this is illegal but as serious harm or even death could come to the mother would you go to a court and get the appropriate permission, and would this generally be yes due to her 'ultimatum'?
    Probably yes, again as the poster above me said, I would have to consult with my medical team, seniors and psycharist to come to a conclusion. Abortion can be carried out if there is potential harm to the mother..
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    (Original post by frogs r everywhere)
    Question

    You have a foreign patient who is 4 month old pregnant. She and her partner are asking for an abortion on the basis of their cultural belief. You suspect that their reason for an abortion is due to the 4 month old foetus being female. She is becoming very distressed and threatens you that she will perform suicide if she isn't aborted.

    Would you ever carry out the abortion?
    Like mentioned before, the fact that the patient is foreign isn't important, but may contribute to understanding their cultural belief

    As with every case and situation it is best to do things in the best interest of the patient.

    Before making a decision about the abortion I would read up a little bit about the culture (if i have time), to help me discuss the matter with the patient. Also I would ask her to explain a little bit more as to how her culture relates to having the abortion. Seeing as the foetus is 4 months, it wouldn't be much difficulty, because it is quite early on the pregnancy. Obviously make sure she is aware of the risks and effects of having an abortion and ensure she is aware of adoption/fostering if she still doesn't want the baby.

    Since the patient is threatening to commit suicide, I would probably let her have the abortion, otherwise if she does commit suicide both lives will be lost, and one could have been prevented.

    In this type of situation could you get social services or some type of counselor or something because she says she wants to kill herself if she doesn't get the abortion?
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    (Original post by Pittawithcheese)
    Weird: when I read that scenario I assumed that the drug addict who had OD'ed was female. Funny how personal prejudices influence the way we interpret these things.

    At the start, I would obtain the views of each patient. Whatever they may be, they should inform my decision making. So I would set that stall out early.

    I wouldn't discount the lady with the terminal disease without establishing her wishes. Has she opted for palliative care or does she want to continue the fight against the disease in the hope of spontaneous remission? Either way, I would have to consult with the oncology doctors and come up with a joint approach that is in her best interests. I would only offer the dialysis if it broadly supported the oncology care plan that was in place for her.

    There are some really poignant discussions to have about the drug addict's age and whether as a young person she has the most "right" to have her life prolonged. However, I would not offer the treatment to her. Not because I am judging her lifestyle, but because I work with drug addicts almost every day (and we are most likely talking about heroin to be in the world of overdoses). Dialysis is a strict regimen that requires discipline in eating and drinking habits between treatments, and most importantly requires that people attend their treatments when scheduled. The lifestyle of a "classic" heroin addict is just too chaotic to be able to comply with such a regimen. For that reason, I would consider the treatment clinically inappropriate and not offer it.

    That leaves the marathon runner. If he is able to comply with the regimen and is otherwise healthy and the treatment sustains him until transplant, he could have another 30 years of life ahead of him (arguably more than the 17yo or the lady living with breast cancer).

    Decision: old boy gets it.


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    your decision was different to the others but nice point. You justified your decision well I feel:top:
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    You and your BEST friend from childhood get your exam results. You haven’t done that well but your best mate has done amazing. When u congratulate her she tells u in CONFIDENCE that she actually cheated (didn‘t have time to revise). Would you inform the tutor/appropriate person?

    Obviously we would have to establish the situation a bit more e.g. why didn’t she have time to revise (was it due to a death in the family or due to spending too much time partying (so its her own fault)
    If the latter then the right thing would possibly be to tell the tutor
    But I was wondering
    Do you think the fact that your best buddy trusted you and told you in confidence is very relevant in your decision making? Consequently if you told you would be breaching the trust (which is sometimes needed) but in this situation could you agree not to tell on these grounds given the consequences of you keeping quiet, in this scenario, would not really have an impact on anyone else compared to if you told in which case u might not even be able to prove the cheating and so there is a chance nothing at all will be achieved etc etc?
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    (Original post by CasualSoul)
    You and your BEST friend get your exam results. You haven’t done that well but your mate has done amazing. When u congratulate her she tells u in CONFIDENCE ehat she actually cheated (didn‘t have time to revise). Would you inform the tutor/appropriate person?

    Obviously we would have to establish the situation a bit more e.g. why didn’t she have time to revise (was it due to a death in the family or due to spending too much time partying (so its her own fault)
    If the latter then the right thing would be to tell the tutor
    But I was wondering
    Do you think the fact that she trusted you and told you in confidence is very relevant in your decision making? Also the consequences of you keeping quiet, in this scenario, would not really have an impact on anyone else compared to if you told in which case u might not even be able to prove the cheating and you’ve breached the trust etc etc?
    This is a weird question in that I personally wouldn't say anything and its not due the person being my best friend.

    First of all, if you do report it, that is a very serious claim, and there has to be evidence to suggest they actually did cheat, otherwise, thy probably can't take action. I'm pretty sure my friend would be unwilling to admit they cheated to their tutor, so it would seem a waste.

    I think the right thing in this case to do would be to have a serious conversation with them, because they probably know what they did was wrong and so will probably be going through some sort of emotional turmoil.

    Obviously cheating is never right, but in this case, reporting them won't do them, exam officers, other people any favours and may just waste their time.

    Like I said earlier, the friendship bit doesn't play a massive role, but it is important that you have that in mind, because you don't want to be breaking their trust etc
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    (Original post by mynameisntbobk)
    This is a weird question in that I personally wouldn't say anything and its not due the person being my best friend.

    First of all, if you do report it, that is a very serious claim, and there has to be evidence to suggest they actually did cheat, otherwise, thy probably can't take action. I'm pretty sure my friend would be unwilling to admit they cheated to their tutor, so it would seem a waste.

    I think the right thing in this case to do would be to have a serious conversation with them, because they probably know what they did was wrong and so will probably be going through some sort of emotional turmoil.

    Obviously cheating is never right, but in this case, reporting them won't do them, exam officers, other people any favours and may just waste their time.

    Like I said earlier, the friendship bit doesn't play a massive role, but it is important that you have that in mind, because you don't want to be breaking their trust etc
    Okay gdgd yeah I came to the same conclusion but was questioning myself on just keeping quiet. I'm happy with the response you've given. Thanks
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    (Original post by CasualSoul)
    Okay gdgd yeah I came to the same conclusion but was questioning myself on just keeping quiet. I'm happy with the response you've given. Thanks
    Just realised yeah I completely agree with what you said, especially finding out why they did it, because it definitely can't happen at uni!
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    just been on the ukcat website and they have published some results-
    The total mean average score in 2013 is 2643
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    (Original post by frogs r everywhere)
    In my personal opinion, I wouldn't give a concrete answer of "Yes I am a leader due to..." or the latter, as in medicine, or especially during your progression to a career in medicine, you will be required to acquire skills of being both a leader and a follower. Leadership is a quality which is instilled with experience, as with leadership comes decision making. The necessity of doctors making decisions which can become life changing, in addition to deciding the most suitable treatment plan for a rather complex patient, separates medicine to other professions such as nursing; which focuses more on the practical aspect of patient care.

    *Insert an experience on how you developed your leadership skills*

    As a medical student, junior doctor, or trainee in a specific speciality, you will need to be able to accept that your knowledge has limits. It's important to acknowledge the fact that we, as medics, will never be able to know everything. This is due to the nature of science in general- its dimensions are limitless. I remember a consultant which used the saying "In medicine, you never stop learning". We need to be taught, we need to be shown aspects of the medical career that we did not even anticipate. We need to be followers; following those who have deemed to have more experience in a field that we aspire to reach.

    I am both a leader, and a follower.
    Beautiful response and well worded imo :borat:
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    As a doctor, how would you cope with being sued?
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    (Original post by FlavaFavourFruit)
    x.

    (Original post by Secret.)
    x

    (Original post by ilikebigbuttshaha)
    x
    Some very good arguments guys, I may have used the wrong term, however, there are some patients from specific groups where abortion based on gender happens. You have correctly identified that the patient's safety is our utmost importance.
    FlavaFavourFruit, you have also mentioned that abortion at 16 weeks, any under circumstances will be legal. It frankly is.

    Abortion based on gender is actually illegal legal in the UK.

    "You suspect that their reason for an abortion is due to the 4 month old foetus being female"
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    I would strongly recommend you take advice from Career Analysts ( www.careeranalysts.co.uk)
    They can really give you advice for right interview preparation for you.
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    (Original post by frogs r everywhere)
    Some very good arguments guys, I may have used the wrong term, however, there are some patients from specific groups where abortion based on gender happens. You have correctly identified that the patient's safety is our utmost importance.
    FlavaFavourFruit, you have also mentioned that abortion at 16 weeks, any under circumstances will be legal. It frankly is except in circumstances in sex selective abortions.

    Abortion based on gender is actually illegal in the UK, and this is what the patient may have wanted.

    "You suspect that their reason for an abortion is due to the 4 month old foetus being female"
    Thanks for that!! But I guess abortion is likely coz she's considering suicide
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    (Original post by frogs r everywhere)
    Abortion based on gender is actually illegal in the UK, and this is what the patient may have wanted.
    Is it? I was under the impression that the law doesn't actually prohibit sex-selection abortion...I read an article on it recently, I'll see if I can find it.
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    (Original post by FlavaFavourFruit)
    Thanks for that!! But I guess abortion is likely coz she's considering suicide

    (Original post by usycool1)
    Is it? I was under the impression that the law doesn't actually prohibit sex-selection abortion...I read an article on it recently, I'll see if I can find it.
    Yes you are both right. I was inconveniently referring to a legality of an act that has recently been updated.

    But I guess that brings up further questions if sex selective abortion should be legal in the first place.
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    So it IS legal? :|
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    (Original post by thefiretailedpony)
    So it IS legal? :|
    Technically, yes. There was a really good article explaining it on the guardian a couple of days ago but I can't find it. This is similar but not as informative so I'd have a hunt if I were you!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...x-grounds.html
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    (Original post by frogs r everywhere)
    Yes you are both right. I was inconveniently referring to a legality of an act that has recently been updated.

    But I guess that brings up further questions if sex selective abortion should be legal in the first place.
    Ok.! :lol:

    and to to answer that question, it shouldn't be legal but how can we tell 100% if that's the reasons for abortion
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    Don't forget that you can refuse to perform an abortion if you refer them to someone else, and that abortions need two doctors to sign them off
 
 
 
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