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Leaving Islam/ telling my family I'm athiest? watch

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    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    you seem to have loads of time on your hands which I don't and:
    "the best answer to a ignorant person is silence"
    so although I have answers to everything you've said I aint gonna bother cause you don't seem to be listening but anyway I love my religion and for your information I'm the muslim here (unless u are although u don't sound it) and since I'm practising I do know about my religion
    also you cant just quote from he quraan for your own purposes and when it suits u and ignore the time place and context
    in addition you believe what you think is right and I believe in what I think is right: no point arguing about something were never gonna reach an agreement about anyway
    Honestly, I just came to check whether the OP had reached a conclusion on the issue but clearly you need some perspective on Islam as it seems that you are just blindly following it. Rather than composing my argument for scratch il simply copy and paste my argument from another post as it is more than sufficient in challenging the Quran and Islam.



    You still don’t get it. God has explained the path to hell and heaven you say therefore it is him who chooses who goes to hell. It is his criteria not ours. We are condemned to hell depending on whether we follow the right path or not ACCORDING TO GOD. Once again it is god who chooses who goes to hell or heaven not us. God judges us on the day of judgment and decides who goes to heaven or hell. It is a key belief of Islam that GOD will judge us. Do you not get that? We don’t choose whether we go to hell. We choose how we live our life. Are you saying that its right for the saintliest person to go hell simply because he chose the wrong path ACCORDING TO GOD as he was not a Muslim who worshipped him? No. God does not force you what path to go on but he does force you to go to hell or heaven. I’m honestly trying my best to explain this. If it was truly our choice, then it would be a simple question of " do you want to go to heaven or not?" that would decide our fate.


    Regarding alcohol and pork.Like I said earlier, not everyone will die as a result of drinking alcohol. Do you not understand that? You make it out like alcohol causes everyone who drinks it to die but the fact of the matter is, only people who drink irresponsibly die from alcohol consumption. Everyone around us drinks and that is indisputable in the western world. Yet how many of them die or get cancer.Ratio wise the number who die or get cancer is miniscule compared to the number of people who drink. When was the last time someone dies as a result of eating pork? Exactly, you don’t know because the truth is that it almost never happens and do you know why? Il spell it out for you, t e c h n o l o g y. Technology. ever considered that? With the arrival of refrigeration, pork can be stored safely which was the main problem back then as it would go off very quickly. Technology revolutionised the world we see today and rendered these old laws obsolete. These teachings are OUTDATED. The Quran is OUTDATED. We no longer need a book to tell us how to govern our life on modern society, it is impractical.


    You say that god commands goodness and forbids evil but then why did he let evil exist in the first place? If he truly forbids evil, then why can’t he just eradicate evil? You say its for a test but why would an all-loving God expose his creation to evil and suffering just to test them? He is a SADIST. Ultimately he likes to see his creation suffer. The more you suffer the more reward you get you claim. So god rewards people on their suffering? He enjoys watching people suffer. Otherwise why else would he reward them; why else would he let evil and suffering exist? There’s only so much suffering one can take before breaking and why risk that.


    God It really is like grasping at straws.Once again, the FACT is that no one benefits from prayer. The millions of poor children in Africa, how do they benefit from prayer? How does satisfying god benefit them in this case?They are rewarded with poverty and disease? We don’t do things in life to satisfy God. We do them because morally it is the right thing to do or not. Any choice you make is not to satisfy god but to live. We don’t live to satisfy god.We live for the sake of living.And of course you thank someone of they do something for you, its common courtesy, but the fact of the matter is God has done nothing deserving of thanks. God did not supply us with everything we have. Everything that we have is a result of our own efforts.When I studied and got my straight As it wasn’t because god gave me it but because I worked for it and that is FACT. If I didn’t work for it and left it to God, then I definitely wouldn’t have gotten those grades as god simply does not intervene in his creation, despite all the prayers. Despite all ofthe suffering. He leaves it be under the guise that this life is a test. God is LAZY or is EVIL.

    Regarding creation ever heard of evolution? The big bang theory? Oscillating universe theory? Quantum theory?Know that there are scientific theories that can explain how the universe came to be which are just as likely as a God.God CAN’T and DOESNT exist.Actually let me rephrase that. Your God, ALLAH, CAN’T and DOESNT exist but a different god can. All the evidence points to this conclusion and if you can’tsee that then I’m truly sorry for you.

    "Either God cannot abolish evil or he will not; if he cannot then he is not all-powerful; if he will not then he is not all-good" (St Augustine) The fact that evil exists challenges his qualities and existence as it is said that God is all-powerful and all-loving but if he is then how can he let evil exist? If there is a creator, it cannot be the biblical god simply because he is perfect yet makes a problem ridden universe. It could be anything, it is more likely looking at the world that the world has been created by something else incompetent at creating a universe, it is more likely that it is "only the first rude essay of some infant deity who later abandoned it ashamed of his lame performance"(David Hume) I would explain the source but I think its pretty self-explanatory.
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    (Original post by MamzZass)
    X
    I'd just like to add that as well as being sadistic, the concept of life as a test is also nonsensical. You only test someone if you don't know how they're going to perform, there has to be some uncertainty about the outcome for a test to take place.

    But if God is all-knowing then there is no uncertainty. He will have known every second of your life from before you were even born so the test makes no sense whatsoever.
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    Wait did your seriously no joking say a fascist state is not a bad thing. That seriously worries me. We should have got completely past fascism a long time ago, what value do you see in it at all?
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    Salam
    I advise you to relax and reconsider things. Tell your parents about your decision, talk and discuss with them. You may change your mind.
    Then, try to pray and ask Allah to help you making the right decision.
    Islam is a gift from Allah
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    (Original post by Salx.x)
    I come from a fairly liberal Muslim family in London. I don't wear Hijab and I don't pray. My family aren't bad people, but they really do have high expectations for me. My mum says everyday that she knows I'll be great and that she prays everyday that I'll be successful. My siblings are more the issue though, they also have high expectations and have recently become more practising. I know I should wait till I'm old enough to move out (I'm still in school), but it's been a few weeks since I've come to realise of my atheism and I'm already going crazy. I have studied Islam in depth and there's many things I believe are wrong and disagree with. I'm going to ask you not to post any Qur'an verses, even though I know someone will. What can I do to prepare myself to tell them I'm atheist? And how should I tell them? I can already see what my life is going to be if I don't leave Islam soon. I'll only carry on living my miserable life, doing things I don't believe and passing those beliefs to my children who'll have to live the miserable life I did. I respect Islam and Muslims, but I really do have strong views about things on the dark side of religion that everyone seems to overlook. I got into a really heated argument once with a friend who said that being gay is a choice because it says that nobody is born gay in the Quran. I have my own morals and I don't need religion to keep me in place.
    Has anyone else ever left Islam, and if so how did your family react?
    Wait but if your not praying or covering why do you feel the need to tell them now? unless there pressuring you to do it??
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    (Original post by Archdukes)
    The penalty for apostasy is death.
    Though this won't happen to you in Britain, you will be castigated and exiled from your community, and by extension your pillar of moral and financial support. As per aforementioned advice, certainly come out, but only once you have financial independence. Doing anything else at the present moment is societal suicide.
    Not at all... All over the world this really depends on your family, community and understanding of Islam. I have a few relative in Nigeria who are christian or non religious and everyone may not have been happy but the accepted it...
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Are all students in an exam hall the same? No. Do they all get the same exam? Yes, which makes it completely fair.

    The fact people have different tests is what is unjust, as some people's tests will undoubtedly be easier than others'. The whole concept of the test is nonsense anyway, it is simply too flawed to be the actual method by which an all-knowing God would rule by.



    I understood what you said, it simply didn't make logical sense.
    Sorry have to disagree with this, eveyone get the same education, it depends on how you choose to study. Not everyone lives the same life/ life experience.
    I see were you were going but the example kinda failed...
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    Let's try again, are you not 100% sure that Islam is correct?
    Could you get this Ruh person to pm me?
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    (Original post by DiamondPower)
    when I meant cultural I meant stuff like FGM because muslims do this mostly in Africa because its part of their African culture and this is totally against islam.
    If FGM is an African cultural practice that has nothing to do with Islam, Why does Indonesia (the world's most populous Muslim country) have over 80% of all girls being victim of some form of FGM?
    Indonesia had no cultural history of FGM until the arrival of Islam in the 13th century. Indonesia's highest Islamic organisation supports FGM and calls it an Islamic requirement. The majority of those who carry it out consider it to be a religious duty, as do the mothers of the victims.

    Yes, it may have its roots in African tribal culture in the distant past, but it is now very much an established part of Islamic culture in some places.

    ISIS kill innocent people
    But according to their literalist interpretation of the Quran and sunnah, those people are not innocent. According to Ibn Kathir's tafsir, 5:33 means that anyone who "opposes, contradicts or disbelieves" Islam may be killed or crucufied.
    8:57 instructs Muslims to inflict casualties on prisoners as a lesson to others who may fight.

    and do disgusting things like teaching children intolerance
    8:55 "Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve".

    and how to use guns
    8:60 "And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah"

    and this IS NOT ISLAM .
    I'm sure we can agree that a text as ambiguous and contradictary as the Quran is open to a range of interpretations, but each interpretation has its own justification. Those with an agenda of violent expansion will claim that your interpretation is wrong and has nothing to do with Islam.

    I wont leave islam not because I'm not open minded (which is a silly argument by the way)
    So you accept that Islam may be false.

    I wont leave it because I am proud to be a Muslim, i believe strongly in my faith and beliefs and I also feel that it is the whole truth and I find no fault or flaw in it regardless of what people say
    An argument that I am sure is used by those who follow what you claim is "not Islam".

    would you call me narrow minded because I believe in a religion that has the perfect morals for me?? that teaches me about humanity? that teaches me to be human??
    Do you consider the keeping of slaves to be "perfectly moral"?
    How about being allowed to have sex with them, yet stoning free people for consensual sex. Is that "moral perfection"?
    What about beating your wife if you fear disobedience? Is that teaching you to be human?
    To name but a few...
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    (Original post by salmasalmass)
    Sorry have to disagree with this, eveyone get the same education, it depends on how you choose to study. Not everyone lives the same life/ life experience.
    I see were you were going but the example kinda failed...
    I didn't say everyone gets the same life experience. In fact, if anything, that leads more credence to my argument. If everyone has different lives then life cannot possibly be a test as it would be unfair and vary wildly from person to person.
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    What are ISIS doing which you feel is unislamic and going against the Qur'an?
    Raping women.
    Murdering ppl
    chucking homosexuals of rooftops.
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    (Original post by Farah_786)
    chucking homosexuals of rooftops.
    "Ahmad (2915) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “May Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot, may Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot,” three times. This was classed as hasan by Shu’ayb al-Arna’oot in Tahqeeq al-Musnad. The Sahaabah were unanimously agreed on the execution of homosexuals, but they differed as to how they were to be executed. Some of them were of the view that they should be burned with fire, which was the view of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) and also of Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), as we shall see below. And some of them thought that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him). Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death, which was narrated from both ‘Ali and Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with them). After the Sahaabah, the ***aha’ differed concerning the matter. Some of them said that the homosexual should be executed no matter what his situation, whether he is married or not. Some of them said that he should be punished in the same way as an adulterer, so he should be stoned if he is married and flogged if he is not married. Some of them said that a severe punishment should be carried out on him, as the judge sees fit."

    http://islamqa.info/en/38622

    "some of them thought that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them."


    Are you claiming that the Sahaba were doing something against Islam?
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    (Original post by Farah_786)
    Raping women.
    Sex with female captives taken during battles and raids on villages, caravens, etc, is specifically permitted in the Quran and sunnah. There is no mention of obtaining the slaves permission. Members of ISIS would deny that they are raping anyone, merely following Islamic teaching.

    Murdering ppl
    This all depends on your definition of "murder". The Quran allows the killing of those who oppose Islam, and Muhammad himself approved the beheading of hundreds of unarmed prisoners. Would you call that "murder".

    chucking homosexuals of rooftops.
    This is following the opinion of Ibn Abbas (a companion of Muhammad).

    So, all clearly have a basis in Islam.
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    allah does exist stupidos
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    yes I know a lot of things are answered but we are praying and that is a requirement..
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    I'm in the exact same position as you!!!!!! My family are religious Muslims, have have high expectations and I know exactly what you're going through! I've been an Atheist for almost three years and I tried to regain my faith, but I just can't, Islam just doesn't make sense to me. Idk the only hope we have is to wait till we're old enough to move out then tell them? I'm also bisexual so that probably makes things even worse for me lol, Anyways at least you know you're not alone :P.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Philosophically ponder and you will realise that science will never realistically explain where the Universe came from, even from (unsatisfactory) theories, and God is probable to exist; arrogant New Atheists feel that people use God as a miracle answer to the question of the universe, however it is the most logical answer, and based upon this, as much as it displeases many, religion actually makes sense and provides moral, social, psychological and spiritual order in people and society much to its benefit. Many theists are too lazy to question their belief (to later affirm it), and many atheists are too lazy and too arrogant in their 'intellectual' superiority and belief of self-suffiency to consider that a God exists and sustains everything...
    Having almost been atheist once, I understand how 'liberating' and 'logical' it feels; upon reflection it is just the lazy man's way of ignoring the question of fundemental origin.

    Perhaps one day you will realise that your family are not just sheep in flock following the crowd, and realise that the liberal YOLO atheists are exactly what they accuse the religiously minded of being...
    Why is God the most logical answer? Just because science hasn't discovered everything yet doesn't mean a God must be the answer.
    I have no issue with people using religion as a comfort but you can't say theism or atheism are any more logical than each other.
    Science has predicted many things to be true which we have since proved whereas religious texts have stated nothing that can be proved. By that logic I would prefer to stick with science and facts.

    I will entertain the idea that there is some higher being as long as there is evidence to suggest it, but while no evidence points towards a God existing, i will not be able to force myself into believing.

    Even if I was to suddenly choose a religion, how would I choose? I'd pick the one that matched my moral principles the closest... But that doesn't make it any more likely I'd be worshipping the right God.
    Let's say it's 50/50 whether or not there's a God.. Then let's say according to all of the world religions there are 20 different gods (there will probably be more than this but just an example)
    Therefore by being an atheist I have a 50% chance of being right, by following one religion I have a 1/2 * 1/20 chance of being right, so 1 in 40. I'll take the better odds :lol:
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    Well let me tell you I grew up in Sweden which is as you may know very liberal in terms of religion freedom and freedom of speech and all that. My father is a physicist and my mom is a biochemist and both very devoted muslims. When i grew up i always hated the fact that I couldn't have a girlfriend and when i was a teen i couldn't drink so basically for me it seemed so normal since everyone was doing it except for my family so when I finished highschool (A-levels or whatever u call it here ) I told dad that I had a girlfriend and that i every now and then go out for drinks with my mates. Let me tell you guys at first he was really angry and said that he never wanted to see me again etc. however the next week when he had calmed down he phoned me and told me If i ever need any help with anything in life that he would be there for me even though he didn't want me to have a "bad" influence on my other siblings. after taking 3 years off working on all kind of stuff I decided that I didn't like that lifestyle of drinking and in meaningless relationships etc. (if you like it i completely understand) and i for some period of time suffered of depression so I called my dad and told him what am i supposed to do with my life what he told me made me cry. He just said for a starter you could move back in with the family and by this time my dad had moved here to wales (cardiff) so he helped me figure out what it is i really enjoy in life (electronics) and helped guiding me to an appropriate university course (EEE). Now im in my first year in EEE in cardiff university and even though im a muslim im still trying to figure out how i want to live my life. What my dad always tells me is to not just be a muslim because my family is but i should only be a muslim if i really want to be and i really believe that my decision is right. Now your issue is that you are a woman i presume since that in arabic/asian culture often means that your parents are more attached to you and more afraid especially since a woman is a family's pride in our culture so what i suggest is that you keep it fairly low for now and try to raise all the questions you do have with your parents that way they wont be as surprised when you break it to them. anyways goodluck with whatever awaits you in life and believe in your parents even if they might be harsh in the beginning when you tell them sooner or later they will show their loving side again and keep in mind this isn't really about them this is about you so again goodluck with life and may you find your way in life!
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    Hey OP.

    Obviously I didnt read all 21 pages so I dont know if someone has already said this or not.

    Whatever you think you want to do with your life, especially something so important as religion, you need to sit down with your parents, and really discuss it. Dont start out by saying, "k mum dad, im an atheist, **** your religion, im out".
    You need to ask them why they chose their religion, what makes them think it is the right religion and tell them what your views are on life and religious views. It is up to you to believe what you will believe. whatever religion you are, if you are born into it, and mindlessly follow it without though, without doubt, then you're not really following that religion, you might as well not follow it because you dont really believe it, it is just a norm for you.
    One thing is for sure tho, you have to believe in SOMETHING. being an atheist, although your choice of course, is the most ridiculous and laziest thing one can do. I have several atheist friends, who are mostly atheist because they cant be bothered with finidng out about the purpose of life, about the after life, about anything other than their desires, dreams and pleasures. Im sorry but if you are unable to see/think beyond yourself then you really dont need anyones help, especially dont need to go on forums and ask random ****ers what you should do.
    Secondly, it is the question of what if, the big delima. What if there is no god, all religions are wrong, no afterlife, after you die, that is the end of existance for you. i would just fall into depression at that though and probably kill myself becuase if that is true then there is no meaning to life and our existance is utterly worthless. No point of any life at all. But, if there really is not god/religion, and you followed a religion, then what you did all your life is lead a "good" life as in was good to everyone, made people happy, contributed to society, because every religion in the world is in reality there to protect you, your sanity, and society. if you really deeply look into any religion, the effort is to build a better community/society with good people.
    On the other hand, if there IS a god, and you were an athiest, well then you pretty much screwed then isnt it. you spend 60 years of your life in pleasure, well, the pleasure that most of us with our tiny wages can afford, and then the cost of that tiny pleasure was an eternity in hell. #worthit?

    Either way, this is hands down the biggest decision in your life/afterlife and the two people who care about you the most are your parents. You NEED to ask them for help, not us random strangers, most of whom have no idea about their own ****ing beliefs and are ****ed up in our own rights. I dont give a **** about you mate, dont care if u live or die or what happens to you, and neither does a single one of these people on 21 pages. Go to the 2 who do care.

    good luck and god bless
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    (Original post by mohib)

    Whatever you think you want to do with your life, especially something so important as religion, you need to sit down with your parents, and really discuss it. Dont start out by saying, "k mum dad, im an atheist, **** your religion, im out".
    Why not? If that's the decision she's come to then she's perfectly entitled to do that. And she's already said she's atheist, so trying to convert her back is probably in vain.

    You need to ask them why they chose their religion, what makes them think it is the right religion and tell them what your views are on life and religious views.
    Most people don't actively choose their religion, they're brought up believing it. It's no accident that the overwhelming majority of religious people share the same religion as their parents. And how do you know the OP hasn't done this already and still come to the conclusion that Islam is false?

    It is up to you to believe what you will believe.
    Indeed it is and she has already specified that she doesn't believe in Islam.

    whatever religion you are, if you are born into it, and mindlessly follow it without though, without doubt, then you're not really following that religion, you might as well not follow it because you dont really believe it, it is just a norm for you.
    You've just accused the majority of the world's religious population of being non-religious!

    One thing is for sure tho, you have to believe in SOMETHING.
    No, you don't. There's something called atheism buddy, which means you lack a belief in any kind of deity or supernatural creator.

    being an atheist, although your choice of course, is the most ridiculous and laziest thing one can do.
    No it isn't. If someone sees no evidence for God and decides to become an atheist then that is perfectly rational and not lazy or ridiculous in the slightest.

    I have several atheist friends, who are mostly atheist because they cant be bothered with finidng out about the purpose of life, about the after life, about anything other than their desires, dreams and pleasures.
    This is clearly a load of made up nonsense. People don't become atheist for the reasons you've listed, you're just inventing garbage to try and make her feel bad about leaving Islam. Well it's probably not going to work

    Im sorry but if you are unable to see/think beyond yourself then you really dont need anyones help, especially dont need to go on forums and ask random ****ers what you should do.
    Here we go with the "atheists are evil, selfish creatures with no moral code" argument. Boring.

    Secondly, it is the question of what if, the big delima. What if there is no god, all religions are wrong, no afterlife, after you die, that is the end of existance for you. i would just fall into depression at that though and probably kill myself becuase if that is true then there is no meaning to life and our existance is utterly worthless.
    Completely and utterly untrue. You can create your own purpose in life, atheists don't need a celestial bully to make one up for them, just like children make their own way in the world and don't need their parents to define their life path for them.

    If anything an atheist is likely to make the most of life because they feel it's the only one they'll ever get and can't afford to take it somewhat for granted expecting that they'll continue to exist after death.

    Tbh, believing that the purpose of life is set by God and that you have no choice but to follow it is what's depressing in my opinion.

    No point of any life at all.
    No divine purpose, no. But as mentioned, you can create your own.

    But, if there really is not god/religion, and you followed a religion, then what you did all your life is lead a "good" life as in was good to everyone, made people happy, contributed to society, because every religion in the world is in reality there to protect you, your sanity, and society.
    What a disingenuous poster you are. First off, atheists are just as capable as being good and making other people happy. And being religious doesn't guarantee you'll be a good person. In case you hadn't noticed, people who believe in God still murder and rape and commit crimes. In fact, considering most people in the world are religious, most "evil" actions are committed by them.

    if you really deeply look into any religion, the effort is to build a better community/society with good people.
    You don't need religion to do this and this has absolutely no bearing on whether or not God exists.

    On the other hand, if there IS a god, and you were an athiest, well then you pretty much screwed then isnt it. you spend 60 years of your life in pleasure, well, the pleasure that most of us with our tiny wages can afford, and then the cost of that tiny pleasure was an eternity in hell. #worthit?
    No you're not, this is just Pascal's Wager which is immensely flawed. There have been hundreds of gods in history so even if you're a muslim and the real god is Odin then you're also going to hell. Believing in God makes you no more likely to be right.

    Either way, this is hands down the biggest decision in your life/afterlife and the two people who care about you the most are your parents. You NEED to ask them for help, not us random strangers, most of whom have no idea about their own ****ing beliefs and are ****ed up in our own rights.
    I guess that means she shouldn't listen to a single word you've said then, as you're a "random stranger"

    I dont give a **** about you mate, dont care if u live or die or what happens to you, and neither does a single one of these people on 21 pages. Go to the 2 who do care.

    good luck and god bless
    Nice. Because telling someone you don't give a **** about them is really going to make them more likely to take your advice! :top:

    Virtually everything you've written is self-righteous, fallacious bollox, and the OP doesn't deserve to be subjected to it.
 
 
 
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