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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Another point, if different people voted for Conservative-Liberal, and the other option, then voted Labour-Liberal as a second choice, there would be seven people against Labour-Liberal as the first choice, but five people for Labour-Liberal; tyranny of the minority applies. Telling members the poll is not binding when asking them to vote shows how illiberal the democratic Liberals claim to be, how power hungry the leaders are if a better deal is identified before the discussion period is up, and how much power nobodies have over the party.

    cBay Thing would be quieter if the government did its job, defended it policies, and did not approach everything by using the children rebut which goes something like I know you are but what am I.
    PetrosAC When the poll is overwhelmingly to join the left-wing socialists in a coalition, there is no sound evidence to say the Liberals are a centrist party with a mix of active member on both sides. If the Liberal Party was a centrist party there would be a 60%-40% split on the two most popular coalition options showing both sides of the party, the lack of this proves the right-wing Liberals hold no influence in the party but act as a show piece for the Liberal Party leadership to claim the Liberal Party is a centrist party.
    Nigel, I genuinely give up with you....

    No matter what I say to you, you'll keep on going on and on. I'm going to be frank and abrupt here. Your opinion of my party genuinely does not concern me in the slightest.
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    You hypocrite , your party chair ( whoever it is ) isn't active , who even is your DL ? and im pretty sure MM is a liberal MP and isn't active . Who else is thier ? Toronto isn't that all active , And who even are the other MP ? Two can play that game
    Do you even know who our Party Chair is? It's JoeL1994 who is active in his role as Foreign Sec. Airmed is our DL. Toronto is active but also has to carry out duties as Deputy Speaker. Aph is active. Imperion is active. Snufkin and MM don't debate as much but they're still voting.

    Rather than criticising eachothers activity, we should be looking for ways to increase activity housewide. People continue to be hostile and distant with eachother rather than being civil when debating and then being able to chat with eachother in the bar occasionally.
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    Alright folks on the right, this is getting downright nasty now. The Liberals preferred our deal to yours, get over it, we were prepared to compromise and we formed a government. Don't blame Petros because their party accepted a better offer you weren't prepared to give.

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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    You're actually getting ridiculous now. We're the Liberal Party not some facist dictatorship that forces people to vote a certain way. It does list what the proposals were and it's updated throughout the thread, it just cannot be seen in the screenshot.

    Nigel, I genuinely can't take you seriously. Atleast LP and Jammy Duel are making points. You're just talking out of your behind.
    The point is this, I would be surprised if a true liberal would describe a party that tells its members a poll to decide the future government is not binding, the leadership can ignore the views of its party; when voting for options there is only the trust in the leadership saying the option is a good option but not giving details about all options; and when being asked to decide the poll is open to make their votes public.

    Splitting these factors down, and removing the Liberal name from the equation, there is a body that removes cornerstone of democracy that is the secret ballot, adds a clause allowing leadership to ignore the majority will of the people, and does not tell its people what is being voted for: no one would describe a state that does that as a democratic state. I am aware my opinion of the Liberal Party party does not concern you, but that is a pitfall of leadership, the Liberal leader is failing to defend the practices of your party that are illiberal.
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    You hypocrite , your party chair ( whoever it is ) isn't active , who even is your DL ? and im pretty sure MM is a liberal MP and isn't active . Who else is thier ? Toronto isn't that all active , And who even are the other MP ? Two can play that game
    I'm not the one claiming that my party has 10/13 MPs active. I wouldn't say that at all. I am pointing out my leaders hypocracy not being a hypocrite myself.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Yes they were. Myself and Jarred kept the thread updated with offers. At one point we almost went with you guys as Labour weren't prepared to give Jarred the Chancellorship (and it was a pretty bad offer). If Saoirse didn't have GP who saw that we thought Labour's offer at the time was rubbish, we maybe would have gone with the Tories...

    Just to be clear, I am only now realising this from looking through the thread. We got the offer we wanted in the end from Labour, and I do think we would have got it anyway because frankly, you both need us - especially them.
    ****ing green pink. So Labour are likely leading the government only thanks to their dupe. How is it fair if our opponents knew about our proposals but we knew noting about theirs? Is this whining too, cBay?

    I sincerely thank you for today's honest revelations, Petros.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Alright folks on the right, this is getting downright nasty now. The Liberals preferred our deal to yours, get over it, we were prepared to compromise and we formed a government. Don't blame Petros because their party accepted a better offer you weren't prepared to give.

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    We're actually blaming your dupe and many inactive Liberals who got to vote.
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    I would also point out I feel most of the liberals are socially liberal , this isn't the case of the tories, but is the case with labour which makes us a much more naturally ally. In my own view on the matter
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    ****ing green pink granny. So Labour are likely leading the government only thanks to their dupe. How is it fair if our opponents knew about our proposals but we knew noting about theirs? Is this whining too, cBay?

    I sincerely thank you for today's honest revelations, Petros.
    As I've said to you before LP, I will always be straight with people. It means it's a lot more surprising when I do something sneaky

    To be clear, I don't think anyone else in the Labour leadership would have known what you offered us. They gave us the exact offer we asked for initially.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    ****ing green pink granny. So Labour are likely leading the government only thanks to their dupe. How is it fair if our opponents knew about our proposals but we knew noting about theirs? Is this whining too, cBay?

    I sincerely thank you for today's honest revelations, Petros.
    I hope granny wasn't a typo...
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    I would also point out I feel most of the liberals are socially liberal , this isn't the case of the tories, but is the case with labour which makes us a much more naturally ally. In my own view on the matter
    A true Liberal Party that believes in democracy would not tells its members a poll to decide the future government is not binding, the leadership can ignore the views of its party; when voting for options there is only the trust in the leadership saying the option is a good option but not giving details about all options; and when being asked to decide the poll is open to make their votes public.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    The point is this, I would be surprised if a true liberal would describe a party that tells its members a poll to decide the future government is not binding, the leadership can ignore the views of its party; when voting for options there is only the trust in the leadership saying the option is a good option but not giving details about all options; and when being asked to decide the poll is open to make their votes public.

    Splitting these factors down, and removing the Liberal name from the equation, there is a party who breeches removes cornerstone of democracy that is the secret ballot, adds a clause allowing leadership to ignore the majority will of the people, and does not tell its people what is being voted for: no one would describe a state that does that as a democratic state.

    I am aware my opinion of the Liberal Party party does not concern you, but that is a pitfall of leadership, the Liberal leader is failing to defend the practices of your party that are illiberal.
    The poll wasn't binding. We went on to discuss the deals with active membership and we all came to a decision that we were happy with.

    As I've said several times, members saw the offers. We're an open party and we talk about things. There is no need for a secret ballot in this instance. We have secret ballots for amendments and elections.

    If the membership of my party deems any of our practices illiberal, they can and will submit a constitutional amendment which would easily pass if anything was actually illiberal. Instead we yet again get ridiculous slander from the UKIP leader that relies on the Real life's party Cult Leader to pick up votes.

    Edit: The Party Leadership is elected to make decisions. If we went against the will of the party I'd be a backbencher by now
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    As I've said to you before LP, I will always be straight with people. It means it's a lot more surprising when I do something sneaky

    To be clear, I don't think anyone else in the Labour leadership would have known what you offered us. They gave us the exact offer we asked for initially.
    Well, given that green **** wasn't in a leadership role, they must have known or at least suspected. It could've claimed to be a mere middleman but that's still rather unethical and we can't be sure either way. Ah, well… all cheaters will eventually get caught.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Do you even know who our Party Chair is? It's JoeL1994 who is active in his role as Foreign Sec. Airmed is our DL. Toronto is active but also has to carry out duties as Deputy Speaker. Aph is active. Imperion is active. Snufkin and MM don't debate as much but they're still voting.

    Rather than criticising eachothers activity, we should be looking for ways to increase activity housewide. People continue to be hostile and distant with eachother rather than being civil when debating and then being able to chat with eachother in the bar occasionally.
    Active in breaking the law and being an idealist rather than pragmatic.

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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Well, given that green **** wasn't in a leadership role, they must have known or at least suspected. It could've claimed to be a mere middleman but that's still rather unethical and we can't be sure either way. Ah, well… all cheaters will eventually get caught.
    It went through Saoirse rather than GP. GP had nothing to do with it, so Labour wouldnt have known.

    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Active in breaking the law and being an idealist rather than pragmatic.

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    And who are you referring to there?
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    The poll wasn't binding. We went on to discuss the deals with active membership and we all came to a decision that we were happy with.

    As I've said several times, members saw the offers. We're an open party and we talk about things. There is no need for a secret ballot in this instance. We have secret ballots for amendments and elections.

    If the membership of my party deems any of our practices illiberal, they can and will submit a constitutional amendment which would easily pass if anything was actually illiberal. Instead we yet again get ridiculous slander from the UKIP leader that relies on the Real life's party Cult Leader to pick up votes.

    Edit: The Party Leadership is elected to make decisions. If we went against the will of the party I'd be a backbencher by now
    It is strange an election to decide the next government needs to be secret but an internal election to decide the next government does not need to be secret;there is no difference. Few Liberals will submit a constitutional amendment because they do not care about the direction of the Liberals; the members do nothing but vote in polls. I will be blunt with you, I think your inability to secure few Liberal manifesto pledges as policies in 3000 hours, defend legislation from reasonable criticism from Jammy Duel, and not give support to the spending review written by the Chancellor warrants a rethink, or a resignation; I back JoeL1994 for a potential Liberal leader.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    It went through Saoirse rather than GP. GP had nothing to do with it, so Labour wouldnt have known.



    And who are you referring to there?
    I think it's a bit redundant saying it went through S rather than GP... AMD referring to Joe

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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    A true Liberal Party that believes in democracy would not tells its members a poll to decide the future government is not binding, the leadership can ignore the views of its party; when voting for options there is only the trust in the leadership saying the option is a good option but not giving details about all options; and when being asked to decide the poll is open to make their votes public.
    That is pretty irrelevant to my point, I made a point about my general view about coalition choices in that I felt my party was a more natural choice for the liberals over the tories, at least on social issues, and I would say a significant portion of the liberals on a similar wavelength economically, at least enough to come to a compromise. This has nothing to do with internal liberal affaris
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    It went through Saoirse rather than GP. GP had nothing to do with it, so Labour wouldnt have known.
    Well, you said: “If Saoirse didn't have GP who saw that we thought Labour's offer at the time was rubbish, we maybe would have gone with the Tories...” Okay, no mention of our proposal, so I take that back, but the effect was practically the same.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    I hope granny wasn't a typo...
    No, it was a friendly comparison to lovely grandmothers.

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