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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Did you bribe the examiner or did you get it from some dodgy website?

    Tbh nobody gives a damn about your pathetic need to make non STEM students feel bad about themselves. Your ignorance is both hilarious and tragic. Take up knitting perhaps?
    Feel bad about themselves? Im sorry but sometimes the truth hurts. Get over yourself, non STEM students can go very far in life as long as they stop *****ing about it and aiming high.
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    (Original post by STEMisSuperior.)
    Feel bad about themselves? Im sorry but sometimes the truth hurts. Get over yourself, non STEM students can go very far in life as long as they stop *****ing about it and aiming high.
    Get your head out of the clouds and do your research. There are millionaires who have Arts degrees and so disprove your argument completely.

    Perhaps if you stop *****ing about it online and revise you'll get your university offer. Would be very ironic if you missed your offer and ended up working in a low paid job
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    (Original post by STEMisSuperior.)
    LOOL ok.

    We look at it generally, i can also list 100000s of questions such as ''Will non STEM prepare you for a career in engineering? exotic derivs trading? Statistician?" and so on. Your point is irrelevant since ive looked at it in generic terms.
    Genericness is also arbitrary and subjective. The fact there are thousands of different possible questions is my point. Superiority only has meaning when a (necessarily subjective) purpose is specified. 'STEM is superior,' you say; so I say, 'superior for what purpose?'

    That aside, you haven't even looked at what many would consider to be most important question of all - does STEM increase overall life happiness/satisfaction?

    It's also worth considering the fact that STEM is a more or less arbitrary category. Why stick medicine and petroleum engineering under the same label? If it's because they are perceived to be superior according to some criteria, it shouldn't really be a surprise if they turn out to be superior according to that criteria!

    Writing skills doesnt require a degree, it needs some intuition and reading skills, a degree isnt necessary.
    We aren't talking about what's necessary, though. Most undergraduate degrees (yes, even in STEM - perhaps even more so in some fields) contribute precisely **** all to society. At best they just train you and get you a qualification so that you can secure a job or research post later on.


    finally you have contradicted yourself massively - You argue with me because apparently im not being objective yet you suggest criteria that is wholly subjective. Irony eh?
    That's not irony, and there is no contradiction. I'm not suggesting any criteria to be an objective definition of superiority; I'm pointing out criteria aside from those you have chosen for the precise reason of demonstrating subjectivity. I don't think you are employing your capacity for critical reasoning very carefully here.


    Once again, you ignore the vast majority of my post. You were very quick to dismiss me as a 'butthurt non STEM person', but what is your experience in STEM and non-STEM?
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Get your head out of the clouds and do your research. There are millionaires who have Arts degrees and so disprove your argument completely.

    Perhaps if you stop *****ing about it online and revise you'll get your university offer. Would be very ironic if you missed your offer and ended up working in a low paid job
    I have not said, ''A random STEM student will always be better than a non STEM student''. On average, STEM students do earn more over a lifetime than non STEM student.

    Oh please, i could meet my offer if i had my exams today.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    Genericness is also arbitrary and subjective. The fact there are thousands of different possible questions is my point. Superiority only has meaning when a (necessarily subjective) purpose is specified. 'STEM is superior,' you say; so I say, 'superior for what purpose?'

    That aside, you haven't even looked at what many would consider to be most important question of all - does STEM increase overall life happiness/satisfaction?

    It's also worth considering the fact that STEM is a more or less arbitrary category. Why stick medicine and petroleum engineering under the same label? If it's because they are perceived to be superior according to some criteria, it shouldn't really be a surprise if they turn out to be superior according to that criteria!



    We aren't talking about what's necessary, though. Most undergraduate degrees (yes, even in STEM - perhaps even more so in some fields) contribute precisely **** all to society. At best they just train you and get you a qualification so that you can secure a job or research post later on.




    That's not irony, and there is no contradiction. I'm not suggesting any criteria to be an objective definition of superiority; I'm pointing out criteria aside from those you have chosen for the precise reason of demonstrating subjectivity. I don't think you are employing your capacity for critical reasoning very carefully here.


    Once again, you ignore the vast majority of my post. You were very quick to dismiss me as a 'butthurt non STEM person', but what is your experience in STEM and non-STEM?
    As i have repeatedly said, anything that can be objectively measured, i have considered. There isnt thousands that can be objectively measured. And you are yet to show one that can be objectively measured AND shows non STEM is better.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Could not rep this enough.

    He made an account just to make a thread so he could try and bring down his insecurity. Ironically it makes him look more insecure and pathetic because all he does is belittle.
    It's penis envy: the strength of the boast is inversely proportional to the size of his ****.

    \rm Length_{penis} \ \propto \ \frac{1}{|boast|}
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    http://www.emolument.com/career_advi...who_earns_more

    Granted the above is skewed by the type of users this site attracts (usually high tech, high finance, consulting, accounting, engineering etc type professionals), but it gives you an idea that for high paying jobs - the results are not what you are preaching.
    In the real world I'm not surprised by that table.
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    (Original post by STEMisSuperior.)
    As i have repeatedly said, anything that can be objectively measured, i have considered. There isnt thousands that can be objectively measured. And you are yet to show one that can be objectively measured AND shows non STEM is better.
    That's not what I'm trying to demonstrate. For approximately the sixth time, I'm not saying non-STEM is superior to STEM; I'm saying that to compare them so is nonsensical.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    That's not what I'm trying to demonstrate. For approximately the sixth time, I'm not saying non-STEM is superior to STEM; I'm saying that to compare them so is nonsensical.
    no, why do you keep picking on my criteria then? Or is that because you've finally come to your senses?

    From your flawed logic you can also argue that you cannot compare anything.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    That's not what I'm trying to demonstrate. For approximately the sixth time, I'm not saying non-STEM is superior to STEM; I'm saying that to compare them so is nonsensical.
    He's not interested in anything you or anyone else has to say other than for the troll factor.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Get your head out of the clouds and do your research. There are millionaires who have Arts degrees and so disprove your argument completely.

    Perhaps if you stop *****ing about it online and revise you'll get your university offer. Would be very ironic if you missed your offer and ended up working in a low paid job
    I wouldn't say that that statement disproves his arguement entirely.

    The millionaires that have art degree would probably become millionaires regardless of the degree they do.

    I mean, there are billionaires that dropped out and have no degree at all. Does that mean that having no degree will give you a greater chance of becoming a billionare? Who knows.
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    (Original post by uberteknik)
    He's not interested in anything you or anyone else has to say other than for the troll factor.
    I agree that he's extraordinarily closed-minded and so isn't interested in what anyone has to say unless it appears to support his prejudiced worldview... but I don't think he's trolling!
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    (Original post by STEMisSuperior.)
    I have not said, ''A random STEM student will always be better than a non STEM student''. On average, STEM students do earn more over a lifetime than non STEM student.

    Oh please, i could meet my offer if i had my exams today.
    Why does it bother you if non STEM students pick Arts? I don't know if its hit you yet but some people go into a subject because they love it and aren't as money orientated as you probs might be,

    Oh wow you are so insecure of yourself. I'd laugh so much if you didn't meet your offer.
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    (Original post by STEMisSuperior.)
    no, why do you keep picking on my criteria then?
    It was a (seemingly futile) attempt to help you understand the subjective nature of your claim.


    From your flawed logic you can also argue that you cannot compare anything.
    Speaking of flawed logic... that does not follow at all! Can you explain how you made that inference?
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Why does it bother you if non STEM students pick Arts? I don't know if its hit you yet but some people go into a subject because they love it and aren't as money orientated as you probs might be,

    Oh wow you are so insecure of yourself. I'd laugh so much if you didn't meet your offer.
    Its not bothering me. As i have said, its just the truth but at the end of the day, you follow what you're passionate at, something i cannot measure.

    You seem so obsessed with trying to demean me by suggesting im insecure, please, you're just coming of as salty and a little jealous. What uni do you go to? Or what were your GCSE/ A level results?
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    http://www.emolument.com/career_advi...who_earns_more

    Granted the above is skewed by the type of users this site attracts (usually high tech, high finance, consulting, accounting, engineering etc type professionals), but it gives you an idea that for high paying jobs - the results are not what you are preaching.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Here is broader "Payscale" data which does show a pro-STEM skew but only by 10% or so. For many non-STEMers I'm sure they would be quite happy with that...

    Name:  Screen Shot 2016-05-14 at 18.10.13.jpg
Views: 82
Size:  98.8 KB

    Sources:
    BA - http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/...ars_Experience
    BSc - http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/...ars_Experience

    Edit to add: not that pay on its own is necessarily a good measure for "objectively superior".
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    Stemlords assemble.

    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
    Stem!
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    Hey, I do STEM and non-STEM subjects. Hopefully, I can contribute an unbiased view point. Read with a sense of humour and hopefully I won’t offend anyone to much.

    - STEM grads earn way more money than non STEM grads(ST and LT)Yeh, to be honest, I would pay a medical student a bit more than maybe a dance student - just as I would pay a surgeon to perform heart surgery more than a dancer to perform a mind-blowing dance. But you know why? If that crap goes wrong – someone dies. But you know what else? Being a dancer is flipping HARD too and I wouldn’t take any non-STEM degree lightly – especially a dance degree.

    - STEM students have better grades than non STEM students (on average)As you’re a STEM student, I was expecting evidence. Even History students give evidence.

    - STEM grads have greater career prospects than non STEM grads
    Right now I can imagine thousands of History (and humanities) students screaming with intense horror – something like ‘WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? WHERE ARE YOUR PEEL PARAGRAPHS?’

    - STEM grads are more intelligent since their degrees need more thinking ability.
    The screams are getting louder. Clearly you didn’t ‘think’ about this too much.

    - In the future, STEM grads will be more in demand since computers and AI can easily replace the jobs of a non STEM grad.
    Yeh, some jobs – both STEM and non-STEM jobs. NEWSFLASH: AI is going to more easily replace STEM grad’s jobs. You know why? Because your STEM jobs live and breath science, technology etc– computers love maths and technology! They can do maths! You know what computers can’t do? Feelings, emotions, the kind of stuff human brains do best…I don’t know about you but, if I ever needed therapy, the computer’s not going to do it.

    - Careers such as high finance actually have a preference of STEM (and econ/finance) over other non STEM grads. Why? Because STEM grads have a more respectable degree.
    The screams….I can’t take it….somebody this person some evidence….please….help….

    - STEM grads can do the job a non STEM grad does (perhaps with a little bit of training) Okay non-STEMS grads – pick a STEM job….engineer did you say? Okay, if you could just take a whole new degree, that would be great.
    Okay STEM grads – pick a non-STEM job….barrister did you say? Okay, if you could just take a whole new degree, that would be great.

    - Many non STEM degrees such as languages can be done by STEM students so long as they choose the appropriate modules at uni.You viewing the ability to take non-STEM modules as an advantage over non-STEM students? You mean to say this makes STEM students superior to non-STEM students?

    Lets be honest, the people who say "STEM and non STEM degrees are equal!" are those who do non STEM degrees or A levels and are very insecure. This has now led to STEM students and non STEM students degrees look equal, which is an insult to STEM students. A maths grad and english grad are not equal, sorry.
    I do STEM A Levels. I am not insecure. I believe STEM and non-STEM degrees are equal. STEM degrees may be more scientifically or technologically demanding and non-STEM degrees may be emotionally or creatively demanding – but I think the ‘disadvantages’ and ‘advantages’ balance them out overall.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Here is broader "Payscale" data which does show a pro-STEM skew but only by 10% or so. For many non-STEMers I'm sure they would be quite happy with that...

    Name:  Screen Shot 2016-05-14 at 18.10.13.jpg
Views: 82
Size:  98.8 KB

    Sources:
    BA - http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/...ars_Experience
    BSc - http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/...ars_Experience

    Edit to add: not that pay on its own is necessarily a good measure for "objectively superior".
    Ooh, thanks for that! These figures look more normalised to boot, the other ones were definitely skewed by high earning City folk.



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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Ooh, thanks for that! These figures look more normalised to boot, the other ones were definitely skewed by high earning City folk.



    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I could add BEng too

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