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    I'm still sitting on the fence as i am seeing points from both sides that are intriguing and interesting. I also have friends from both sides that are also trying to convince me to vote either side. Does anyone here have some good points to point me in a direction?
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    I'm still sitting on the fence as i am seeing points from both sides that are intriguing and interesting. I also have friends from both sides that are also trying to convince me to vote either side. Does anyone here have some good points to point me in a direction?
    Well, I can tell you that I am firmly in. Mainly from an economic perspective.

    Several companies that have said that they will reallocate jobs or investment in a Brexit.

    In a survey of 700 British and German firms, more than 29% said they would relocate or cut capacity.

    In a survey of 127 American companies that employ 300,000 people, 70% said a Brexit would negatively impact on future investments.

    I cannot name a single company that said that they will invest more money in a Brexit.

    We have record low unemployment and good growth and are just recovering from the recession of 08-09. Why change that?
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, I can tell you that I am firmly in. Mainly from an economic perspective.

    Several companies that have said that they will reallocate jobs or investment in a Brexit.

    In a survey of 700 British and German firms, more than 29% said they would relocate or cut capacity.

    In a survey of 127 American companies that employ 300,000 people, 70% said a Brexit would negatively impact on future investments.

    I cannot name a single company that said that they will invest more money in a Brexit.

    We have record low unemployment and good growth and are just recovering from the recession of 08-09. Why change that?
    I see so why sacrifice the certainty that we currently have for something that is generally not certain whether the outcome be positive or negative, especially since it seems that if we do vote leave current companies will have to renegotiate contracts and business might be lost.
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    I see so why sacrifice the certainty that we currently have for something that is generally not certain whether the outcome be positive or negative, especially since it seems that if we do vote leave current companies will have to renegotiate contracts and business might be lost.
    Because there is no certainty being sacrificed, a vote to remain is not to remain where we are, but to remain on the path the EU is taking and more or less sitting in the back seat.
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    I see so why sacrifice the certainty that we currently have for something that is generally not certain whether the outcome be positive or negative, especially since it seems that if we do vote leave current companies will have to renegotiate contracts and business might be lost.
    Yeh, exactly.

    International companies invest here because we are part of the EU and so we don't have to pay tariffs.

    “We built the plant because Britain is part of the EU and we are considering expanding into the EU,” the Asahi Shimbun quoted Toshiaki Higashihara, Hitachi’s president, as saying this week, adding that he opposed a Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nies-in-the-uk

    These guys are not politicians. They don't need to lie.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Because there is no certainty being sacrificed, a vote to remain is not to remain where we are, but to remain on the path the EU is taking and more or less sitting in the back seat.
    This path will result in a massive negative for the UK? I heard stuff about a large almost united nations esq ideal about the EU with its own army at its beck and call, because we and France have the largest armies does that mean we might have to sacrifice our own major control over to the EU? Factors such as these? Sorry not very educated about this - need to catch up :P
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    This path will result in a massive negative for the UK? I heard stuff about a large almost united nations esq ideal about the EU with its own army at its beck and call, because we and France have the largest armies does that mean we might have to sacrifice our own major control over to the EU? Factors such as these? Sorry not very educated about this - need to catch up :P
    Depends what is regarded as negative, but the path being taken is one that most Britons don't want to go down (and most remainers seem to be in denial that it is the path we're going down, wanting to think that we can somehow alone on the edge of Europe stop it).

    But yeah, that sort of thing. Remainers, particularly Cameron, like to talk of how we need a referendum for any significant transfer of power, except the EU has stopped working on shifting power en masse by treaty, preferring to do it more stealthily via legislation.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Yeh, exactly.

    International companies invest here because we are part of the EU and so we don't have to pay tariffs.

    “We built the plant because Britain is part of the EU and we are considering expanding into the EU,” the Asahi Shimbun quoted Toshiaki Higashihara, Hitachi’s president, as saying this week, adding that he opposed a Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nies-in-the-uk

    These guys are not politicians. They don't need to lie.
    Hmmm leaving the EU may lead to companies from outside the EU pulling out due to the UK's position in the EU and its current economic climate that could be very dangerous to us. To a student like myself - (not sure about you) How could this affect my near future dependent on the vote, i am concerned of this primarily as i will be going to University soon and an unstable or unpredictable economic/ employment sector would not be very good
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Depends what is regarded as negative, but the path being taken is one that most Britons don't want to go down (and most remainers seem to be in denial that it is the path we're going down, wanting to think that we can somehow alone on the edge of Europe stop it).

    But yeah, that sort of thing. Remainers, particularly Cameron, like to talk of how we need a referendum for any significant transfer of power, except the EU has stopped working on shifting power en masse by treaty, preferring to do it more stealthily via legislation.
    I'm assuming then through legislation the public of many of the EU countries do not have a say let alone any idea of what might be going on or even being proposed. I'm assuming that deals alike the negotiation deal Cameron struck a couple of months ago, do little to nothing on impacting this potential problematic future. I would preferably like an actual choice in governing bodies. - Thanks for this, gaining a new insight is very helpful especially considering how close the voting day actually is now.
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    The EU is exporting more to the UK than it does import. So a Brexit will affect more the EU companies than the British one, especially as UK is a large market wih unlike other EU countries. So, even with a Brexit the EU would not be stupid enough to stop trading with the UK.

    What the British economy goes, the majority of export are not even going to the EU but markets outside of the EU. Since the EU is a protections union it is actually harming UK capabilities to even further export to non-EU markets. A Brexit will help Britain to trade even more with China, India or the US.
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    Hmmm leaving the EU may lead to companies from outside the EU pulling out due to the UK's position in the EU and its current economic climate that could be very dangerous to us. To a student like myself - (not sure about you) How could this affect my near future dependent on the vote, i am concerned of this primarily as i will be going to University soon and an unstable or unpredictable economic/ employment sector would not be very good
    Well, if we vote leave, then it will take about 3 years to leave the EU.

    That means when you graduate, your jobs will be most at risk. That isn't a scare tactic, that is just the truth.

    If you already had a job or some experience, that would be different. You might be able to move abroad and etc.

    With regards to the EU Army. There isn't any plan for an EU army. We already have NATO that is enlarging every year to protect Europe against Russia. The UK , France and Germany would veto any idea of an EU Army since they are the most powerful nations.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, if we vote leave, then it will take about 3 years to leave the EU.

    That means when you graduate, your jobs will be most at risk. That isn't a scare tactic, that is just the truth.

    If you already had a job or some experience, that would be different. You might be able to move abroad and etc.

    With regards to the EU Army. There isn't any plan for an EU army. We already have NATO that is enlarging every year to protect Europe against Russia.
    Damn the use of these scare tactics is annoying, why cant politicians just be honest and state facts (as impossible as that sounds) Regarding the job market, it is a scary idea, to mitigate this i presume that staying within the EU would give people of my age the best possible chance/opportunity.
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    Damn the use of these scare tactics is annoying, why cant politicians just be honest and state facts (as impossible as that sounds) Regarding the job market, it is a scary idea, to mitigate this i presume that staying within the EU would give people of my age the best possible chance/opportunity.
    Well, I think it would.

    I think it is quite clear that a Brexit would risk investment in the short term from companies. Especially international ones.

    Even Brexiters won't argue against that.
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    I'm assuming then through legislation the public of many of the EU countries do not have a say let alone any idea of what might be going on or even being proposed. I'm assuming that deals alike the negotiation deal Cameron struck a couple of months ago, do little to nothing on impacting this potential problematic future. I would preferably like an actual choice in governing bodies. - Thanks for this, gaining a new insight is very helpful especially considering how close the voting day actually is now.
    Well, you do have a say. You can vote for an MEP. That MEP can vote against legislation and etc.

    The actual EU consists of bodies that are either voted for or are chosen by our Governments.

    Now, a lot of the public simply don't pay attention because the EU only spends 1% of our budget. They pay attention to the UK Government which controls the other 99%.
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    Damn the use of these scare tactics is annoying, why cant politicians just be honest and state facts (as impossible as that sounds) Regarding the job market, it is a scary idea, to mitigate this i presume that staying within the EU would give people of my age the best possible chance/opportunity.
    They can't be honest and share the facts because that means saying in a Q&A session "we don't know. We don't know that either. Something else we don't know. What am I even doing here?"

    (Original post by Warminator)
    I'm assuming then through legislation the public of many of the EU countries do not have a say let alone any idea of what might be going on or even being proposed. I'm assuming that deals alike the negotiation deal Cameron struck a couple of months ago, do little to nothing on impacting this potential problematic future. I would preferably like an actual choice in governing bodies. - Thanks for this, gaining a new insight is very helpful especially considering how close the voting day actually is now.
    Regulations passed by the EU no say at all in national Parliaments, with directives the national Parliaments are expected to enact the legislation laid out in the directive, but choose exactly how to do it. And no, Cameron's negotiations do nothing about it, in fact they could come to show part of the problem as it is not a binding agreement, what he negotiated is that if we remain some stuff will be put before the European Parliament with promises it will pass, but that doesn't mean it will, it also makes it easy enough to be repealed in a few years.

    That is not to say, however, that we have absolutely no power, pur appointed commissioners obviously have a little bit of a say in things, and our MEPs vote on stuff, although MEPs have considerably less power than our national MPs, and get paid a hell of a lot more on a special tax rate just for Eurocrats.

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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, you do have a say. You can vote for an MEP. That MEP can vote against legislation and etc.

    The actual EU consists of bodies that are either voted for or are chosen by our Governments.

    Now, a lot of the public simply don't pay attention because the EU only spends 1% of our budget. They pay attention to the UK Government which controls the other 99%.
    Interesting, it seems i have been mislead slightly by some of the information being put out across the web through recent weeks. We do have some form of control however the EU itself does not influence our budget to a extensive degree that the focus should be put more upon our own government? How does our own government feel in terms of the leave campaign are they split evenly or more focused towards one extreme/side.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    They can't be honest and share the facts because that means saying in a Q&A session "we don't know. We don't know that either. Something else we don't know. What am I even doing here?"

    Regulations passed by the EU no say at all in national Parliaments, with directives the national Parliaments are expected to enact the legislation laid out in the directive, but choose exactly how to do it. And no, Cameron's negotiations do nothing about it, in fact they could come to show part of the problem as it is not a binding agreement, what he negotiated is that if we remain some stuff will be put before the European Parliament with promises it will pass, but that doesn't mean it will, it also makes it easy enough to be repealed in a few years.

    That is not to say, however, that we have absolutely no power, pur appointed commissioners obviously have a little bit of a say in things, and our MEPs vote on stuff, although MEPs have considerably less power than our national MPs, and get paid a hell of a lot more on a special tax rate just for Eurocrats.

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    So the entire massive amount of talk and conversation around Camerons negotiations could result in nill if they are not passed in an effective time period. Would there be any major disadvantages to our government again having total control over the UK, rather than having directives issued from the EU parliament, also do you think governmental shifts ie the 4yr terms will have a major effect if for example the Labour get elected next term.
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    Interesting, it seems i have been mislead slightly by some of the information being put out across the web through recent weeks. We do have some form of control however the EU itself does not influence our budget to a extensive degree that the focus should be put more upon our own government? How does our own government feel in terms of the leave campaign are they split evenly or more focused towards one extreme/side.
    We have so much influence we have been against something like 70 measures and all have passed.
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    (Original post by Warminator)
    Interesting, it seems i have been mislead slightly by some of the information being put out across the web through recent weeks. We do have some form of control however the EU itself does not influence our budget to a extensive degree that the focus should be put more upon our own government? How does our own government feel in terms of the leave campaign are they split evenly or more focused towards one extreme/side.
    Just a quick explanation of the EU.

    The EU Consists of three bodies. The Parliament, The Council and The Commission.

    The Commission makes up laws. The Parliament and the Council approves or rejects them.

    The Parliament consists of MEPs elected by the people

    The Commission consists of Commissioners including a UK Commissioner appointed by Cameron.

    The Council consists of the UK heads of Government including Cameron.

    So you can see that in all three bodies, the UK has direct or indirect democratic influence.

    The Government is Pro EU. Parliament is Pro EU as well. 2/3rd of Parliament support the EU.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Just a quick explanation of the EU.

    The EU Consists of three bodies. The Parliament, The Council and The Commission.

    The Commission makes up laws. The Parliament and the Council approves or rejects them.

    The Parliament consists of MEPs elected by the people

    The Commission consists of Commissioners including a UK Commissioner appointed by Cameron.

    The Council consists of the UK heads of Government including Cameron.

    So you can see that in all three bodies, the UK has direct or indirect democratic influence.

    The Government is Pro EU. Parliament is Pro EU as well. 2/3rd of Parliament support the EU.
    Thanks! So coming out of this vote (if the majority votes to remain) Do you believe that anything will change or needs to change in the current situation, ive heard that Cameron is looking to reject a future referendum unlike Farage who wishes to host another if the results are close.
 
 
 
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