There is no evidence for God

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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    When you consider their is an equal amount of evidence to suggest there is no God as there is to convince anyone there is, isn't it just as crazy to dismiss, out of hand, an idea that has been around for a few thousand years despite attempts to eradicate it. It does seem as though we are "hardwired" to see the possibility of a Creator.
    I would call that weakness. The need to believe there is a point to your life.
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    (Original post by jdizzle12345)
    I am a fellow atheist but I do not understand what you are talking about. If everything that he/she said was true then how can the assumption be wrong?
    Assume x>2.

    2x>3
    100x>50
    etc. etc. etc.

    But what if x is actually <2 say -5? You cannot use and assumption for a proof that proves the assumption. Nor can you conclude something when you don't know the assumption is true. I see many, many theists use this type of argument. They say "we have these premises, and then this follows". But those aren't premises, those are assumptions.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Assume x>2.

    2x>3
    100x>50
    etc. etc. etc.

    But what if x is actually <2 say -5? You cannot use and assumption for a proof that proves the assumption. Nor can you conclude something when you don't know the assumption is true. I see many, many theists use this type of argument. They say "we have these premises, and then this follows". But those aren't premises, those are assumptions.
    Oh ok. You were saying their logic was "true" (i.e. the conclusion logically follows from the premises). I was reading a bit too literally into what you said. Because when speaking about logic, when you say that their statement is true then the statement is true regardless of its premises.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    I would call that weakness. The need to believe there is a point to your life.
    Yes, exactly. Although it will be a scary world once major religions die out since there will be no good reason not to act purely out of our own interests regardless of its "moral status".
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    (Original post by jdizzle12345)
    Oh ok. You were saying their logic was "true" (i.e. the conclusion logically follows from the premises). I was reading a bit too literally into what you said. Because when speaking about logic, when you say that their statement is true then the statement is true regardless of its premises.
    Oh right, I see what you mean. Maybe should have been clearer.
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    (Original post by jdizzle12345)
    Yes, exactly. Although it will be a scary world once major religions die out since there will be no good reason not to act purely out of our own interests regardless of its "moral status".
    Well I would argue even religious people are selfish. Selfishness is human.

    If I do something good, do I not do it out of selfishness? Because I love to see the effects of my good deed? Or because I like the feeling of others seeing me as a good person?

    And if the only reason stopping many many people currently religious is because they are told to, then a) that's sad b) yes it's scary but c) just tell them differently.
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    I think atheist who are convinced that no God exists, are as naïve as religious folks. I think we need to redefine what God is. I believe, if there is no God, then, there is only determination and Darwinism that rules the world. That means if you decide something is GOOD or something is BAD, it is only because either you got it taught this way (a lot of people don't question the fact that laws are good, never bad); or it comes from own experiences, through empathy (It hurted me, so I won't do it to you), empathy which, with other things in your brain where developed for the Human kind to survive as a population (Darwin). I believe, if you believe in God, you believe that there is something else, other than these concepts, that tells you what is right and what is wrong.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Well I would argue even religious people are selfish. Selfishness is human.

    If I do something good, do I not do it out of selfishness? Because I love to see the effects of my good deed? Or because I like the feeling of others seeing me as a good person?

    And if the only reason stopping many many people currently religious is because they are told to, then a) that's sad b) yes it's scary but c) just tell them differently.
    I don't agree with you that selfishness is human. Quite the contrary. Humans are able to have empathy. This is how a 4 years old who beets up his friend, learns after he was beaten up himself, that it hurts and that is unfair to do to others. Animals are not like that I think (even though there is still some debates arround this). Animals are selfish.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Well I would argue even religious people are selfish. Selfishness is human.

    If I do something good, do I not do it out of selfishness? Because I love to see the effects of my good deed? Or because I like the feeling of others seeing me as a good person?

    And if the only reason stopping many many people currently religious is because they are told to, then a) that's sad b) yes it's scary but c) just tell them differently.
    I agree that religious people are just as selfish but at least religious people think that if they are bad then they will go to hell and burn forever (or something along those lines). Us atheists, have very little reason to act morally. Perhaps you could see that as an advantage
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    (Original post by Dilysmedic)
    I don't agree with you that selfishness is human. Quite the contrary. Humans are able to have empathy. This is how a 4 years old who beets up his friend, learns after he was beaten up himself, that it hurts and that is unfair to do to others. Animals are not like that I think (even though there is still some debates arround this). Animals are selfish.
    Ah but is selfishness = lack of empathy?

    I would have thought the two are different?

    Lack of empathy = I do not care what happens to others.
    Selfishness = I do what i want (but not necessarily hurting others).
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    (Original post by jdizzle12345)
    Ok,

    1) Omnipotence as a concept is self-contradictory. Just think "can God create a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it?" Whether he can or cannot, leads to a contradiction.

    2) Evil is contradictory with other elements of his nature- Omnipotence and omnibenevolence. As Epicurus said:

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

    Essentially, evil is incompatible with the existence of God. Many theologians have attempted to "justify the ways of God to man", but are largely unsuccessful and require many dogmatic Christian beliefs to make them work.

    3) You say that you have free will but that is simply an arbitrary belief based on very little evidence.

    It is contradictory with the nature of God because if God is the creator of everything and he knows everything then how can he create you with free will. It's like God has written a book where he knows everything that will happen for certain but somehow the characters in the book are free to do anything they want. It's very hard to make sense of it without claiming that "God can just do it... just cus".

    Hope this helps. Faith is the only way to believe in God. Unfortunately, there is very little reason involved.
    You hope this helps??? Did I ask for help?

    All three of your responses are illogical circle jerks sort of and don't really show a lot of thought. God is not a construct of your mind. He's not bound by your logic.


    #1. I heard this when I was a child and it sounds even sillier now. God can do want he wants. The universe is his to do what he wants with it. Little and big rocks included.

    #2. Behold!! A man who knows the heart and mind of God. You cannot begin to know God or his plans for man and this planet. Your faith is only,(for now anyway), only in what you can see and that accounts for only a small amount of what the universe and this world contain. Most of the things that affect you can't be seen. If God created evil I have to think it indeed has a place in His plan.

    #3.What's difficult about the concept that I am free to do as I please and a God who knows the future and every choice that I will make in my lifetime. I think your just reluctant to admit there is a conscious being that is greater than you and you can't begin to understand him.
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    (Original post by Dilysmedic)
    I think atheist who are convinced that no God exists, are as naïve as religious folks. I think we need to redefine what God is. I believe, if there is no God, then, there is only determination and Darwinism that rules the world. That means if you decide something is GOOD or something is BAD, it is only because either you got it taught this way (a lot of people don't question the fact that laws are good, never bad); or it comes from own experiences, through empathy (It hurted me, so I won't do it to you), empathy which, with other things in your brain where developed for the Human kind to survive as a population (Darwin). I believe, if you believe in God, you believe that there is something else, other than these concepts, that tells you what is right and what is wrong.
    Do you mean "determinism" instead of "determination"?

    You cannot base an argument regarding God's existence around something like "it would be really bad if God didn't exist". Arguments regarding God's existence must appeal to reason, logic and evidence.

    The argument that you just made would be more suited to an argument about whether the world is better off with or without religion.

    Furthermore, I do not believe that atheists are as naive as religious people. There are of course exceptions, but most atheists would likely believe in God if a reasoned argument were to be made. However, Christians still believe in God in spite of many good arguments which suggest his non-existence.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    You hope this helps??? Did I ask for help?

    All three of your responses are illogical circle jerks sort of and don't really show a lot of thought. God is not a construct of your mind. He's not bound by your logic.


    #1. I heard this when I was a child and it sounds even sillier now. God can do want he wants. The universe is his to do what he wants with it. Little and big rocks included.

    #2. Behold!! A man who knows the heart and mind of God. You cannot begin to know God or his plans for man and this planet. Your faith is only,(for now anyway), only in what you can see and that accounts for only a small amount of what the universe and this world contain. Most of the things that affect you can't be seen. If God created evil I have to think it indeed has a place in His plan.

    #3.What's difficult about the concept that I am free to do as I please and a God who knows the future and every choice that I will make in my lifetime. I think your just reluctant to admit there is a conscious being that is greater than you and you can't begin to understand him.
    If you believe that God is not bound by logic then there is no point in taking this argument further, considering that arguments are built on logic.

    I wish you well and I look forward to burning in hell.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Ah but is selfishness = lack of empathy?

    I would have thought the two are different?

    Lack of empathy = I do not care what happens to others.
    Selfishness = I do what i want (but not necessarily hurting others).
    I would agree that selfishness does not equal the lack of empathy.

    But I would not agree with your definition of empathy. Isn't empathy the understanding of other emotions? Perhaps we should use the word sympathy instead. Sorry for being pedantic.
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    Ok you tell me there is no evidence for God. Well how are we all living right now? What is your answer to that if you believe that there is no evidence for God existing. Why do people die? What is the point of us living and dying at a certain time?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by jdizzle12345)
    I would agree that selfishness does not equal the lack of empathy.

    But I would not agree with your definition of empathy. Isn't empathy the understanding of other emotions? Perhaps we should use the word sympathy instead. Sorry for being pedantic.
    Well yes empathy is the ability to feel the emotions of others. If you can't do that, it means you don't feel bad if they are hurt. You don't care about them in that sense.

    Haha it's ok, it's good to be clear about these things. I do not know about sympathy, in German we use it differently that one does in English.
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    (Original post by Dilysmedic)
    I don't agree with you that selfishness is human. Quite the contrary. Humans are able to have empathy. This is how a 4 years old who beets up his friend, learns after he was beaten up himself, that it hurts and that is unfair to do to others. Animals are not like that I think (even though there is still some debates arround this). Animals are selfish.
    Humans are still built around selfishness. There may be glimmers of altruism as evolution can favor certain altruistic organisms to further the entire human race as a whole. But for the most part, humans are selfish.

    I doubt that the 4 year old will stop beating people up because he is beaten up himself. He will probably stop beating people up if his parents tell him off or if he is punished. The whole reason why capitalism works is that people are selfish and greedy.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Ah but is selfishness = lack of empathy?

    I would have thought the two are different?

    Lack of empathy = I do not care what happens to others.
    Selfishness = I do what i want (but not necessarily hurting others).
    The two are different, it is true, they are not the contrary. However, I believe empathy is part of the human's brain mechanics. It makes us do things for others even when we know it will impact negatively on us, even when we will get no recognition for this. If such an intrinsic system is part of our brain, then I don't think you can say that selfishness is human. No, I would say the selfishness is the "animal" part of us, not the human one. What do you think?
    (I will try to write English more properly)
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    (Original post by Zeeiqbal)
    Ok you tell me there is no evidence for God. Well how are we all living right now? What is your answer to that if you believe that there is no evidence for God existing. Why do people die? What is the point of us living and dying at a certain time?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Why does there have to be a point to life? What's the point of a life of a plant or an animal? What is the point of existence of a rock?

    Sorry but your post has got to be one of the most naive comments on this topic ever. It is quite obvious that you have been indoctrinated from a young age and never critically thought about this topic at all.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Well yes empathy is the ability to feel the emotions of others. If you can't do that, it means you don't feel bad if they are hurt. You don't care about them in that sense.

    Haha it's ok, it's good to be clear about these things. I do not know about sympathy, in German we use it differently that one does in English.
    I understand what you mean. Sociopaths often act recklessly because they lack empathy. However, one can possess empathy (i.e. understand someone else's emotion) but still lack the sympathy to act upon it.
 
 
 
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