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jit987
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#4281
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#4281
(Original post by Pistol 33)
3-2 Barca.

Messi hatrick

Ronaldo Bale with 1
Close prediction, should have put money on Messi lol.

(Original post by UniMastermindBOSS)
:laugh: :laugh:

I'll stop posting on TSR forever if that happens.
Is 4-3 with Messi hatrick enough? :p:
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Vae
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#4282
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#4282
(Original post by jam277)
Yeah, it's interesting that Real seem like flat track bullies atm.

Counter football Mourinho style(big games anyway) probably wasn't the right style for Madrid in the first place if I was being honest with you. If they had a player of the quality of Javi Martinez or a Nemanja Matic and forced Ronaldo to work for the team then yes they'd suit Mourinho, but they had too many guile players who were too offensively minded, it made them devastating when they got a counter, but you always felt the way in which they defended seemed very risky, it's as if they have two David Luiz's at CB at times.
[
If you think about it, Real conceded 42 goals in their final season, more than Mourinho did in his first 2 years at Chelsea. I don't think that style suited that team at all tbh.

I assume you mean Ozil is better suited to it than Modric because he's more of a traditional no.10, who will stay higher up the pitch and pass to runners in space like Bale/Ronaldo/Di Maria right?

Personally I don't think your defence is much better than last season, you generally aren't the greatest defensively but you restrict the no of quality chances the opposition gets. I don't watch you guys every week so may be misinformed, but that's what it seems to me. If a team put you under a sustained period of pressure(Bayern Munich/Dortmund possibly) or were very clinical with their players(Atlético/Chelsea/Dortmund) The likes of mascherano will be pretty suspect and you'll leak more goals.
I agree it was never the ideal style for them, which is why I wonder why Ancelotti goes back to it against Barça and Atléti. I guess the fact that Mou got a few good clásico results (after the 0-5 battering) creates the illusion that his tacics were spot on for Madrid, although that is underestimating the psychological effect Mou had on his team in those games.
To be fair though, there seems to be a curse that makes all foreign managers think they need to completely change their proven tactics around for their feirst few clásicos or try out something completely new (Ancelotti's playing Ramos in midfield), and most get it gloriously wrong (cf. Mourinho's 0-5, Ramos' 2-6 etc). I guess it's the psychological pressure. Rather funny and almost a bit of a tradition. Martino did it too, but he got it spot on in the first game and got a win in the second.

Wrt Özil/Modric: That too, but I was talking more in terms of pace when running forward; Özil is much quicker than Modric. And even when at high speed he doesn't lose his calm to deliver a good pass, thus perfectly suited for Mou's counter tactics at RM. Modric works better with Ancelotti's counters (which as I said are less 'extreme' counters than Mou's) but generally isn't that great of a counter attack player anyway, which is why he performs so well this season now that RM play more possession football.

"Defence" is a vague term, so it depends on what exactly we're talking about. But in la liga, FCB have conceded significantly less shots both from open play as well as set pieces, have conceded less goals (25 v 33) and kept more clean sheets (13 vs 6). Definitely an improvement. Yes, that is through restricting the number of chances the opponent gets, but that is a defensive strategy as well. And we have handled Atléti rather well this season - 1 goal conceded in 3 games. City wasn't too bad either wih 1 goal conceded in 2 games. Having said that, the defence was much better in the first half of the season than in the second one, but so was the team performance as a whole.

I don't think anyone in their right mind expects Barça to fare well defensively against Bayern though. Most Barça fans expected to be battered by City and Real as well, so no surprise if we see another big defeat should there be a rematch in CL (although not as high as the circumstances are different). That Mascherano is still Barça's first-choice CB is a bit of a mystery, really, but then there is not much choice. Vilanova wasted most of the summer on Thiago Silva, whereas Martino didn't have time to do something on the transfer market when he was appointed. Puyol is injured and not up for the big games anymore, and Bartra has loads of potential but he isn't ready yet for those games (as was seen last season against Bayern). Best thing to do is offload Song, buy 2 CBs and move Mascherano back to DM to be rotated with Busquets.

Chelsea and Dortmund would be interesting matches. I certainly think Barça would concede a few against BVB, as with their full squad I think their counters are better than Real's - they look like Mou's Real on steroids sometimes. Against Chelsea Barça would certainly struggle a lot, althoug not necessarily because of defensive weakness but rather inability to break Chelsea's defensive setup.

By the way, video of Busquet's stomp on Pepe's head: https://vine.co/v/MMFUebFhUdr

Looks like his foot slides and he wasn't looking at the ground to me. Would have been disappointing had he done it on purpose.
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Pistol 33
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#4283
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#4283
(Original post by qua)
By the way, video of Busquet's "stomp" on Pepe's head: https://vine.co/v/MMFUebFhUdr

Looks like his foot slides to me; and he wasn't looking at the ground.
Wow... trying to justify it.

Now i understand why barca won alot in the last few years. If Messi picked up the ball and ran into the goal the ref and barca fans would still find an excuse and justify it.

I feel sorry for Madrid, they were winning and playing better till the red card and penalty. Ref practically handed the game to barca.
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Pistol 33
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#4284
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#4284
Barca against Big teams over the years..
1..)2014 la liga vs madrid (1 red card + 2
penalties)


2..)2014 champions league vs city(red card
+penalty)
3...)2012 champions league vs chelsea in
semi
final(1 red card + penalty)
4...)2011 champions league quater final vs
arsenal
(1 red card + penalty)
5...)2011 champion league semi final vs
madrid
(red card + goal not given to madrid)
6...)2010 champion league semi final vs
inter
millan (red card)
7...)2010 vs madrid laliga (penalty)
8...)2009 champion league vs chelsea 3,4
penalties to chelsea but not given
36 red cards in 2 seasons to other teams
playing
against barcelona making history.
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Vae
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#4285
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#4285
(Original post by Pistol 33)
Wow... trying to justify it.


What? It would have been an absolute disgrace had he stomped on his face on purpose and would have put him on Pepe's level. No excuse for that. But it didn't look like it.

How come all your posts are about Barcelona though? Seems a bit obsessive. There are 20 teams in la liga.
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jam277
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#4286
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#4286
(Original post by qua)
I agree it was never the ideal style for them, which is why I wonder why Ancelotti goes back to it against Barça and Atléti. I guess the fact that Mou got a few good clásico results (after the 0-5 battering) creates the illusion that his tacics were spot on for Madrid, although that is underestimating the psychological effect Mou had on his team in those games.
To be fair though, there seems to be a curse that makes all foreign managers think they need to completely change their proven tactics around for their feirst few clásicos or try out something completely new (Ancelotti's playing Ramos in midfield), and most get it gloriously wrong (cf. Mourinho's 0-5, Ramos' 2-6 etc). I guess it's the psychological pressure. Rather funny and almost a bit of a tradition. Martino did it too, but he got it spot on in the first game and got a win in the second.

Wrt Özil/Modric: That too, but I was talking more in terms of pace when running forward; Özil is much quicker than Modric. And even when at high speed he doesn't lose his calm to deliver a good pass, thus perfectly suited for Mou's counter tactics at RM. Modric works better with Ancelotti's counters (which as I said are less 'extreme' counters than Mou's) but generally isn't that great of a counter attack player anyway, which is why he performs so well this season now that RM play more possession football.

"Defence" is a vague term, so it depends on what exactly we're talking about. But in la liga, FCB have conceded significantly less shots both from open play as well as set pieces, have conceded less goals (25 v 33) and kept more clean sheets (13 vs 6). Definitely an improvement. Yes, that is through restricting the number of chances the opponent gets, but that is a defensive strategy as well. And we have handled Atléti rather well this season - 1 goal conceded in 3 games. City wasn't too bad either wih 1 goal conceded in 2 games. Having said that, the defence was much better in the first half of the season than in the second one, but so was the team performance as a whole.

I don't think anyone in their right mind expects Barça to fare well defensively against Bayern though. Most Barça fans expected to be battered by City and Real as well, so no surprise if we see another big defeat should there be a rematch in CL (although not as high as the circumstances are different). That Mascherano is still Barça's first-choice CB is a bit of a mystery, really, but then there is not much choice. Vilanova wasted most of the summer on Thiago Silva, whereas Martino didn't have time to do something on the transfer market when he was appointed. Puyol is injured and not up for the big games anymore, and Bartra has loads of potential but he isn't ready yet for those games (as was seen last season against Bayern). Best thing to do is offload Song, buy 2 CBs and move Mascherano back to DM to be rotated with Busquets.

Chelsea and Dortmund would be interesting matches. I certainly think Barça would concede a few against BVB, as with their full squad I think their counters are better than Real's - they look like Mou's Real on steroids sometimes. Against Chelsea Barça would certainly struggle a lot, althoug not necessarily because of defensive weakness but rather inability to break Chelsea's defensive setup.

By the way, video of Busquet's stomp on Pepe's head: https://vine.co/v/MMFUebFhUdr

Looks like his foot slides and he wasn't looking at the ground to me. Would have been disappointing had he done it on purpose.
I agree with that. I think the change in formation in el classico games is down to being less predictable. Mourinho e.g. generally looks to make interesting decisions in the big games and changes his tactics.

Yeah I noticed that about Ozil and Modric.

Didn't realise that about Barcelona's defence. Tbf I just assumed that they were on the same level as last season. But yeah I agree that that is how you defend. I argued to my friends that against City in the first leg you were using the possession as a defensive tactic(until the red) but after the red you found more gaps obviously.

With Bayern, do you expect to get more possession than them, or would it actually be 50-50 or majority possession to bayern?
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LightBlueSoldier
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#4287
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#4287
(Original post by Pistol 33)
Barca against Big teams over the years..
1..)2014 la liga vs madrid (1 red card + 2
penalties)


2..)2014 champions league vs city(red card
+penalty)
3...)2012 champions league vs chelsea in
semi
final(1 red card + penalty)
4...)2011 champions league quater final vs
arsenal
(1 red card + penalty)
5...)2011 champion league semi final vs
madrid
(red card + goal not given to madrid)
6...)2010 champion league semi final vs
inter
millan (red card)
7...)2010 vs madrid laliga (penalty)
8...)2009 champion league vs chelsea 3,4
penalties to chelsea but not given
36 red cards in 2 seasons to other teams
playing
against barcelona making history.
Wow spectacular analysis...


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tazarooni89
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#4288
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#4288
(Original post by Pistol 33)
1. Deserved a penalty last el classico didnt get it.
2. Barca got penalty outside box against city. But ofc you miss that out..

3. Pepe gets a yellow for this LOL:

Attachment 273799
Ronaldo said "CR7: "i've been here 5 years now, i'm slowly understanding how things work. Since i've been here, madrid have never benefitted from the ref". However, "sometimes" not benefitting from the ref isn't the same as "never" benefitting from the ref. I showed one example in which he did benefit from the ref. So he's wrong.


Referees aren't perfect, they'll often get decisions wrong. But when decisions are going the other teams way and your team's way, there isn't a case to say that the referee is biased. Pointing out a few decisions that have gone in Barcelona's favour or against Real Madrid doesn't prove anything, it's only half the story.
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tazarooni89
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#4289
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#4289
I wonder what Messi and Pepe's long conversation was about, where they were putting their hands over their mouths to make sure nobody could see what they were saying. Perhaps they were just abusing each other.
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Manchester United
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#4290
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#4290
(Original post by tazarooni89)
Ronaldo said "CR7: "i've been here 5 years now, i'm slowly understanding how things work. Since i've been here, madrid have never benefitted from the ref". However, "sometimes" not benefitting from the ref isn't the same as "never" benefitting from the ref. I showed one example in which he did benefit from the ref. So he's wrong.


Referees aren't perfect, they'll often get decisions wrong. But when decisions are going the other teams way and your team's way, there isn't a case to say that the referee is biased.
I don't think Ronaldo is talking about individual cases. If he is, then he is obviously wrong. I think he means when you sum up all the decisions of the referee/officials over the course of a Clasico, it tends to favour Barcelona. As a neutral, I can't say I disagree.

Last night was just another example of how corrupt/bad the referee's are in Spain. They're completely atrocious.
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Jordooooom
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#4291
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#4291
(Original post by Manchester United)
I don't think Ronaldo is talking about individual cases. If he is, then he is obviously wrong. I think he means when you sum up all the decisions of the referee/officials over the course of a Clasico, it tends to favour Barcelona. As a neutral, I can't say I disagree.

Last night was just another example of how corrupt/bad the referee's are in Spain. They're completely atrocious.
As a neutral? Shut up, you're clearly in love with ronaldo.

People will claim 'uefalona' every time a decision goes barca's way but will completely ignore all the calls that go against them. It's idiotic.
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Vae
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#4292
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#4292
(Original post by Manchester United)
I don't think Ronaldo is talking about individual cases. If he is, then he is obviously wrong. I think he means when you sum up all the decisions of the referee/officials over the course of a Clasico, it tends to favour Barcelona. As a neutral, I can't say I disagree.

Last night was just another example of how corrupt/bad the referee's are in Spain. They're completely atrocious.
As in the examples I gave, Ronaldo always sees conspiracy theories everywhere. He doesn't get the Ballon D'Or? That's because Blatter forced the voters to vote for Messi. He didn't win the title? That's because referees are corrupt. Blatter calls him a "general"? Ronaldo sees this as an attack on Real Madrid, himself and Portugal (...).

The referee in this match was Mallenco. If you sum up all the decisions he has made in clásicos, you definitely will be able to disagree with Ronaldo's notion. That is why Mallenco gets appointed for clásicos, he has made wrong calls against both sides. Even yesterday there were wrong calls against both teams.

And while you talk about clásico history, Ronaldo is talking about football in Spain as a whole. And to say what he said is ludicrous. Nobody who follows Spanish football regularly would agree with that; in fact the only people who still believe in that myth are those who read about it in the foreign (i.e. English, for example) press thanks to people like Mourinho and Ronaldo, who talk about it to seek excuses for defeats.

Refereeing is bad in Spain, the whole RFEF is corrupt. But if you look at their closest ties, you will find they are not with Barcelona but with other clubs... And if you look at some of the blatant corruption that has happened this season, with referees manipulating match reports (cf. Real Madrid Vs Elche) and intentionally robbing smaller clubs of points, there is no way Ronaldo should open his mouth about anything. I can only repeat: Watch the Elche match. Or explain to me why Ramos' red cards are so often rescinded. Etc.

And I don't want to dig in history, but a club that was sponsored by Franco for most of their existence should be very careful with what they say.
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KingMessi
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#4293
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#4293
I'd be interested to hear what the 'UEFAlona' conspiracy theorists have to say about the fact that Madrid got the first penalty last night for a foul that was actually outside the area...

It's strange that people find it so hard to accept that human error and/or incompetence are generally going to be far more plausible and likely explanations than huge sinister conspiracies against Real Madrid.

What do UEFA have to gain from favouring Barcelona? And why are people's memories so short and selective that they can only cite as evidence the major decisions for Barcelona/United/insert other ostensibly 'favoured' club.
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jam277
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#4294
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#4294
Oh **** the hell off with these complaining about refereeing decisions man.

Madrid didn't kill Barca off with the chances they had. Barca were rattled and Madrids defence are shocking. If they converted a few more of their chances e.g. Benzema's sitter in the first half then they'd have been out of sight.

Pathetic that they got beat home and away by Barcelona and haven't beaten any of their title contenders. Flat track bullies and a half.
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Aky786UK
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#4295
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#4295
It's going to form to accuse refs of favouritism in relation to Barcelona. It's in the history of Madrid-Barcelona matches for one or the other to say the refs favour one club. In the early parts of the rivalry, ref moans were quite common.

Ronaldo's comments were probably said in the mixed zone after the match and hardly an environment - post match - to illicit a logical response. It's not great to say that and if he was in England, he'd have a ban no doubt about it. I take it with a pinch of salt.

Ronaldo tbh was kept in check for the game yesterday. Messi was involved more with his pass to Iniesta for the first goal and for the pass to Neymar for the first penalty and bagged a hat-trick. I'd say Madrid deserved something outta the game but in the crucial moments, Messi was there. He takes his penalties brilliantly, no chance for the keeper.
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Aky786UK
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#4296
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#4296
It's going to form to accuse refs of favouritism in relation to Barcelona. It's in the history of Madrid-Barcelona matches for one or the other to say the refs favour one club. In the early parts of the rivalry, ref moans were quite common.

Ronaldo's comments were probably said in the mixed zone after the match and hardly an environment - post match - to illicit a logical response. It's not great to say that and if he was in England, he'd have a ban no doubt about it. I take it with a pinch of salt.

Ronaldo tbh was kept in check for the game yesterday. Messi was involved more with his pass to Iniesta for the first goal and for the pass to Neymar for the first penalty and bagged a hat-trick. I'd say Madrid deserved something outta the game but in the crucial moments, Messi was there. He takes his penalties brilliantly, no chance for the keeper.
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Vae
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#4297
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#4297
Ronaldo and Ramos have been reported by the refs' committee for their comments today. RFEF will decide tomorrow whether they'll get a ban.
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Aky786UK
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#4298
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#4298
^Are the Spanish FA just as stringent on clamping down on any attack on the refeerees' integrity by players, managers? Or if a manager gets sent off. Just thinking back to Mourinho at Madrid and besides his rant against UEFA in the wake of the semi-final loss, first leg, at the Bernabeu in 2011, intrigued if he did anything domestically and if he and other players, managers are punished strongly if they said that over here?
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419
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#4299
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#4299
(Original post by Aky786UK)
^Are the Spanish FA just as stringent on clamping down on any attack on the refeerees' integrity by players, managers? Or if a manager gets sent off. Just thinking back to Mourinho at Madrid and besides his rant against UEFA in the wake of the semi-final loss, first leg, at the Bernabeu in 2011, intrigued if he did anything domestically and if he and other players, managers are punished strongly if they said that over here?
Well, it got off with a slap on the wrist (more like a stroke on the wrist with a tail feather) for the most cowardly egregious action ever seen by a manager. His eye gouging on vilanova was worse than what Padrew did.
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Malevolent
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#4300
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#4300
Doubt Ronaldo will get done for his comments
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