The Manchester United Thread XIX Watch

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trapking
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#4281
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#4281
Just an interesting thought but in terms of the overall fanbase there is quite a huge split of anti mourinho and pro mourinho fans. Now imagine in the Utd hierarchy there are reportedly individuals (glazers/Sir Alex maybe?) who completely dislike mourinho and do not want him anywhere near our club and there are others who are more pro mourinho....don't you think that this split will be quite poisonous in the short and long term for the club itself and can affect a lot of things from transfers etc...
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qasidb
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#4282
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#4282
(Original post by trapking)
Just an interesting thought but in terms of the overall fanbase there is quite a huge split of anti mourinho and pro mourinho fans. Now imagine in the Utd hierarchy there are reportedly individuals (glazers/Sir Alex maybe?) who completely dislike mourinho and do not want him anywhere near our club and there are others who are more pro mourinho....don't you think that this split will be quite poisonous in the short and long term for the club itself and can affect a lot of things from transfers etc...
If the Glazers didn't want Mourinho then they'd obviously not get Mourinho in the first place. If SAF didn't like Mourinho then it wouldn't really cause any problems since he's not initimately involved unlike Woodward is.

As long as Woodward's on Mourinho's side and the Glazers are alright with him while he's here then he shouldn't have a problem with the hierarchy.

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Aky786UK
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#4283
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#4283
Roy Keane was spot-on when he talked about certain people (Ferguson) wanting power when they're not in charge. Proven by comments today calling Pochettino the best manager in the league to MP David Lammy who Fergie, I'm sure, said those words in the hope it wouldn't come out..... it's fruitless as Glazers seem to trust Woodward implicitly with the decisions (although that trust might weaken if Mourinho at United fails miserably) and Fergie/Charlton won't have a word on it. They chose Moyes and look how that ended up. When Charlton said Fergie doesn't like him much, despite the public love-in, you reckon that's pretty much on-point.

With Mourinho, I'm intrigued to see how he handles having a managerial structure which has no director of football, or people like Emenalo sniffing around the first team and reporting to the boss on the on-goings. He'll have a phone line to Ed and that's it - he might be liberated by that freedom to work and it could be a success. He will try to stick to some things, such as the inclusion of a youth player but eventually, he'll go back to what he knows and that might mean no better attacking football than what LVG has been offering in the last three games.

My worry is the influence of Mendes shoving his ****e on to the playing staff now that he has one of his star clients in place and a good relationship with Woodward. Won't be long before there's another Bebe IMO.
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NathanW18
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#4284
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#4284
I thought Sir Alex always liked Mourinho?
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KeyToSuccess
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#4285
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#4285
What ******** "downside" is this that Mourinho will bring? Chelsea got to the CL final and lost the league by a couple points after he left, and when a competent manager came in (aka Ancelotti) they won the double. Inter won Coppa Italia, Supercoppa Italia and the Club World Cup and finished 2nd in the league despite Rafa going full retard for half a season. Madrid won La Decima and the Copa against an incredible Barça side. There's no evidence to suggest he has a long-term detrimental effect to the team. He'll build a good-great team, get us challenging in Europe, win a domestic cup or two, win the title, and then, maybe then, will be start spouting his toxic ******** and isolate the dressing room. At which point he resigns/is sacked, a new man comes in and the glory days continue.
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swirly
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#4286
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#4286
(Original post by NathanW18)
I thought Sir Alex always liked Mourinho?
If you watch that Alex Ferguson Secrets to Success documentary you can see the feeling is mutual.

Was weird to see Mou begging for the United job that early
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NathanW18
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#4287
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#4287
(Original post by swirly)
If you watch that Alex Ferguson Secrets to Success documentary you can see the feeling is mutual.

Was weird to see Mou begging for the United job that early
Yeah, I remember watching that. That's what I thought. They were always friends or at least heavily respected each other. I only made that comment, because I've seen a couple posts stating Sir Alex not wanting Mourinho to manage here.
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jam277
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#4288
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(Original post by KeyToSuccess)
What ******** "downside" is this that Mourinho will bring? Chelsea got to the CL final and lost the league by a couple points after he left, and when a competent manager came in (aka Ancelotti) they won the double. Inter won Coppa Italia, Supercoppa Italia and the Club World Cup and finished 2nd in the league despite Rafa going full retard for half a season. Madrid won La Decima and the Copa against an incredible Barça side. There's no evidence to suggest he has a long-term detrimental effect to the team. He'll build a good-great team, get us challenging in Europe, win a domestic cup or two, win the title, and then, maybe then, will be start spouting his toxic ******** and isolate the dressing room. At which point he resigns/is sacked, a new man comes in and the glory days continue.
His toxic **** isolating the dressing room has happened at Real Madrid and at Chelsea now though.

In all honesty he messed Chelsea up in selling Robben, it's taken us years to find a player of comparable quality and Chelsea had a clear issue in pace for years. Lol at his treatment of Filipe Luis, arguably the best LB in the world too.

I guess it also depends how badly the toxic ******** isolates the team, will it lead to United being 1 point ahead of relegation in december(I doubt it would) or will it just mean lacking a decent title challenge? It's more likely the latter. I think Mourinho is his own downfall rather than anything else, starts picking fights with the hierarchy/media/players whenever things go wrong. Sticking together is crucial to the siege mentality he creates, but there's only so much defenders of a siege can take before people break in.
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swirly
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#4289
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(Original post by NathanW18)
Yeah, I remember watching that. That's what I thought. They were always friends or at least heavily respected each other. I only made that comment, because I've seen a couple posts stating Sir Alex not wanting Mourinho to manage here.
remember when he beat you in the CL with Madrid at Old Trafford, and he said the best team lost.

Overlooked it at the time, but he's clearly been begging it.
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NathanW18
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#4290
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#4290
(Original post by swirly)
remember when he beat you in the CL with Madrid at Old Trafford, and he said the best team lost.

Overlooked it at the time, but he's clearly been begging it.
Definitely. He wants to manage here for sure. He has never said anything bad about this club. He always wanted to keep the possibility open.
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jam277
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#4291
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(Original post by swirly)
remember when he beat you in the CL with Madrid at Old Trafford, and he said the best team lost.Overlooked it at the time, but he's clearly been begging it.

Why the **** do you say that after your team has come through a tough two legged tie? That's just embarrassing.

Like that's just retarded. You say credit to the team for digging deep when United played very well. You don't say that 'the best team lost'
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Dirtybit
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#4292
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#4292
Still on about this klkl
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swirly
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#4293
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(Original post by jam277)
Why the **** do you say that after your team has come through a tough two legged tie? That's just embarrassing.

Like that's just retarded. You say credit to the team for digging deep when United played very well. You don't say that 'the best team lost'
im sure he was just looking to give Perez a reason to fire him so he could collect that severance package.

pretty sure he was fired at the end of the season too???
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KeyToSuccess
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#4294
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#4294
(Original post by jam277)
His toxic **** isolating the dressing room has happened at Real Madrid and at Chelsea now though.

In all honesty he messed Chelsea up in selling Robben, it's taken us years to find a player of comparable quality and Chelsea had a clear issue in pace for years. Lol at his treatment of Filipe Luis, arguably the best LB in the world too.

I guess it also depends how badly the toxic ******** isolates the team, will it lead to United being 1 point ahead of relegation in december(I doubt it would) or will it just mean lacking a decent title challenge? It's more likely the latter. I think Mourinho is his own downfall rather than anything else, starts picking fights with the hierarchy/media/players whenever things go wrong. Sticking together is crucial to the siege mentality he creates, but there's only so much defenders of a siege can take before people break in.
Agreed, but I took issue to the fact it was implied that the toxicity has long term implications, when Ancelotti came in pretty much straight away and fixed it as he's not a ********, and even Hiddink has gone a fair way to rebuilding you lot. Whilst he was clearly wrong to sell Robben, blame is also attached to your transfer policy as a whole (e.g. persisting with the likes of Kalou when there's clear upgrades available like Lavezzi, granted he's poverty now, Douglas Costa, Bernard etc.) I think the relegation season is just an anomaly, surely he can't **** up that bad again and he probably got 2 months longer at Chelsea due to his reputation and legacy, which probably cost you top 4 if Hiddink had come in earlier. So even if he sucks the soul out of the dressing room which takes 6 months to rebuild (and it doesn't generally take longer than that, look at Avram Grant ffs he nearly won you a PL-CL double with Jose's team/dressing room), I'll take it for the 3/4 trophies he'll win you in the 3 years (more like 30 months) he's here for.


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jam277
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#4295
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(Original post by swirly)
im sure he was just looking to give Perez a reason to fire him so he could collect that severance package.

pretty sure he was fired at the end of the season too???
He was most likely trying to get himself fired but they were probably just going to give him gardening leave. Plus he was never going to stay out of management for long.
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Kenan and Kel
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#4296
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#4296
(Original post by KeyToSuccess)
What ******** "downside" is this that Mourinho will bring? Chelsea got to the CL final and lost the league by a couple points after he left, and when a competent manager came in (aka Ancelotti) they won the double. Inter won Coppa Italia, Supercoppa Italia and the Club World Cup and finished 2nd in the league despite Rafa going full retard for half a season. Madrid won La Decima and the Copa against an incredible Barça side. There's no evidence to suggest he has a long-term detrimental effect to the team. He'll build a good-great team, get us challenging in Europe, win a domestic cup or two, win the title, and then, maybe then, will be start spouting his toxic ******** and isolate the dressing room. At which point he resigns/is sacked, a new man comes in and the glory days continue.
What about his style of play, and his record of bringing through academy players? And I don't think short-term success is a given either, there's been a clear decline in his overall management over the past few years. Still don't think we'll hire him as his history doesn't fall within our club traditions.
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KeyToSuccess
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(Original post by Kenan and Kel)
What about his style of play, and his record of bringing through academy players? And I don't think short-term success is a given either, there's been a clear decline in his overall management over the past few years. Still don't think we'll hire him as his history doesn't fall within our club traditions.
Style of play is very similar to Van Gaal's atm actually (defensive possession), and in any case it's as far away from "The United Way" as LVG's (which is fine, btw.) His record of bringing through academy players is certainly questionable, but it's not like he's worked at clubs vaunted for producing young talent by the conveyor belt in the first place. It's a straight shoot-out between Poch and Mourinho, and Jose shades it because he's unemployed.


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Kenan and Kel
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(Original post by KeyToSuccess)
Style of play is very similar to Van Gaal's atm actually (defensive possession), and in any case it's as far away from "The United Way" as LVG's (which is fine, btw.) His record of bringing through academy players is certainly questionable, but it's not like he's worked at clubs vaunted for producing young talent by the conveyor belt in the first place. It's a straight shoot-out between Poch and Mourinho, and Jose shades it because he's unemployed.


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Knew you'd bring up LvG's style of play, but at least he ticks the other box.
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swirly
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#4299
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(Original post by Kenan and Kel)
What about his style of play, and his record of bringing through academy players? And I don't think short-term success is a given either, there's been a clear decline in his overall management over the past few years. Still don't think we'll hire him as his history doesn't fall within our club traditions.
Chelsea's youth team won 4 out of 6 FA youth cups and he didn't convincingly bring through a single player.
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KeyToSuccess
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#4300
(Original post by Kenan and Kel)
Knew you'd bring up LvG's style of play, but at least he ticks the other box.
What of his regression of mercurial talents like Memphis and ADM then?Van Gaal always has that damn going for him, but he brought through Iniesta and Xavi ffs.


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