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Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers) Watch

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    (Original post by Singh95)
    I'm relatively new to Dr. Who... So apologies if this seems a dumb question, but if Missy/Master is a time lord, how come they didn't regenerate after getting shot?
    assume she actually died. She was disintegrated. Its set in doctor who lore that the doctor can die if his body is totally destroyed or almost totally destroyed. That or "killed" whilst regenerating.
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    (Original post by TroyAndAbed)
    Yeah, this was one of my favourite parts of the episode. It was nice that he could finally make up for the thing that had been causing him guilt for all those years.

    I do like Clara but I sort of wish they'd let that be her ending. It was nice to have a companion able to just go back to trying to live a normal life but also to be able to contact the doctor if they ever wanted to. Hopefully they don't do something irritating like kill her off for no reason in the Christmas episode.
    She is probably going to come back in the Christmas episode because of what Nick Frost "Santa" said about how it can't end like this and that she's not happy or something along those lines. I think that was my favourite part of the episode too because I genuinely did not expect him to do that, and I think for that reason alone Danny's character for me was actually the best thing in the whole season. I also enjoyed Missy's ramblings and craziness, I do feel though that when Simms played the master he was crazy but more evil genius which I didn't really get from Missy; but that might just be because of the fact that there wasn't a lot of interactions between the doctor and Missy.


    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    They're probably trying, but the Master is really clever compared to most. As is the Doctor!

    Or maybe the other Time Lords are quite happy in the other dimension. Who knows what's there. Might be a carbon copy of our universe, just without the Doctor.
    Maybe, but I do hope that Gallifrey is explored a bit more.
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    (Original post by TroyAndAbed)
    They've probably got the BBC down their neck saying they have to have a female companion for diversity policies. There were people complaining when the new Doctor was announced as a white male so imagine the fury if the companion was a male as well!
    Ugh, never thought about that. So stupid.
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    (Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
    Ugh, never thought about that. So stupid.
    I think that may be the case with a lot of this series. Moffat, to me, has proven himself to be a fantastic writer with what he's done on Sherlock, with his episodes during Russell T. Davies' era, and the arcs he set up and the world he created in series 5-7. Series 8 has been a gigantic dip, and I don't think it's explained as simply as "Moffat is a bad writer" (again, he wrote some of the best episodes of this series), and it does seem like casting and acting has taken a hit (child acting this series has been terrible, Clara's character has taken a massive hit - possibly writing/directing?). It doesn't make sense that he'd suddenly produce a crap series. Wouldn't be surprised if these were due to influences outwith the showrunner's control.
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    I'm not gonna lie, for all the flaws of the series, this was the best finale i have ever seen on Dr Who. Ludicrously clever.
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    Guys, the fact that Galifrey was just "thrown in" is not an accident. The doctor cannot find his home planet because he is alienated by his own identity. The master said it, symbolically, because she also makes him accept who he is, which has been an ongoing character theme throughout the series.
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    I think this is genuinely the only TV episode ever (In the whole of TV) that actually brought some tears to my eyes, and that Danny Pink brought back a kid that he had killed

    Though what happened to that kid?

    As a side note, I found "Colonel Ahmed" an interesting thing as well, because of the press's vilification of Muslims and how all Muslims hate the UK etc.. (Ahmed generally being a Muslim name)

    And a nice jab at the Americans! - so a bit of light politics in there as well (Not the first time theyve done so. Theyve had a lesbian inter-species relationship once)
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    I think this is genuinely the only TV episode ever (In the whole of TV) that actually brought some tears to my eyes, and that Danny Pink brought back a kid that he had killed

    Though what happened to that kid?
    Yeah that hit me

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    I'm sorry the people trashing this episode are just wrong.
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    I think this is genuinely the only TV episode ever (In the whole of TV) that actually brought some tears to my eyes, and that Danny Pink brought back a kid that he had killed

    Though what happened to that kid?
    He was the kid that Danny killed during his tour of service in Iraq. Danny's guilt and pain caused by his life as a soldier was a recurring theme throughout the series, and it was only revealed last episode that he killed that kid.

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    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    He was the kid that Danny killed during his tour of service in Iraq. Danny's guilt and pain caused by his life as a soldier was a recurring theme throughout the series, and it was only revealed last episode that he killed that kid.

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    No no, I GOT that bit, but Clara was told to "Find his parents" and it's like "How?"
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    Yeah that hit me

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    Think I've said before I do quite like emotion in TV/movies (Whatever that might be - pain, love, whatever - the acting seems a little more "real")
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    No no, I GOT that bit, but Clara was told to "Find his parents" and it's like "How?"
    I don't think she's done it yet: I thought that's what she was building up to tell the Doctor about at the end. Was going to ask for his help, but backed out after hearing about Gallifrey.

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    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    This takes a bit of NuWho history to explain! We're led to believe that between the 8th and 9th incarnations of the Doctor, he was forced to use a weapon that destroyed Gallifrey, Skaro, the Daleks and the Time Lords in order to save the universe. These events became "time locked" (you couldn't revisit their history by travelling through time and changing things). Turns out, as we saw in the 50th anniversary, the Doctor with his incarnations managed to save Gallifrey from destruction and transport it off into another dimension.

    The last we saw of the Master, he was killed in the series 4 finale. Thanks to Gallifrey not actually being destroyed an earlier/later (wibbly wobbly timey wimey, we're not sure how this works), the Master is still kicking about on that planet in another dimension (hence he was never actually killed). He hijacks a TARDIS, finds his way out of that dimension and into our one, and boom! He's back.



    Regeneration has its limits. It seems that if you vaporize a Time Lord, they can't regenerate, which you'd expect since they're now a pile of dust.
    If the shot just killed her (no vaporisation), she would've regenerated, unless you shot her again during the regeneration process.
    We still don't know how the Master was able to stop dying though because The Master was half dead and half alive and literally splitting himself apart not even the Gate which could change whole worlds could save him so we don't know how The Master was able to cure himself and regenerate,surely since the Master died in The Last of the Timelords all of his regeneration energy should have died with him so no regenerations left and not even regeneration would solve the half dead or alive thing or The Master would have regenerated in The End of Time to stop it.Its clear that Moffat forgot most of what happened in The End of Time, you could tell that through how he handled the 50th Anniversary because from The End of Time we know that The Doctor wouldn't save the Timelords because they had become too corrupted and dangerous and were trying to destroy the universe again Moffat's forgot about this and tried to pretend the Timelords are nice.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    Also, unless they're lying about people being concious while dead, that concept makes no sense. People feel pain because of their nervous system. If their nerves have rotted, decomposed or disconnected due to the body being dead, then how does someone feel pain? Also how are the people in the matrix thing able to maintain a connection to their bodies? I know Doctor Who uses fictional and/or questionable concepts and actions but this just sounds incredibly retarded.
    That depends on the religion you follow. ie: In Islam, the soul can feel pain like a living person (which is why cremation is USUALLY banned), though we'd be going on a slight religious tangent instead there!
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    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    I don't think she's done it yet: I thought that's what she was building up to tell the Doctor about at the end. Was going to ask for his help, but backed out after hearing about Gallifrey.

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    I'm fairly sure she was building up to tell the Doctor about Danny not coming back. The boy would have been a side product of the conversation but that clearly wasn't the most troubling issue on her mind.
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    I did really like Missy, she was hilarious and chilling and tragic all in one.

    I do think the two-parter was constructed a little messily though. I would have found it interesting to explore the doctor/master relationship a bit more. Have some flashbacks to them as children to emphasise the friend-turned-enemy theme. Or it would be amazing to have a little scene at the start of the second part that shows John Simm escaping Gallifrey and regenerating into Missy in the process (probably as the time lord tried to stop him). They could have accommodated this by removing some of the filler - the doctor being kidnapped and then nicely asked to be leader made no sense, for example, and the lava scene in part 1 was great until it felt a bit insulting when you realised none of it happened.

    I also wasn't sure I liked how quickly the doctor was ready to kill the Master, in stark contrast to Tennant's doctor trying to save the Master after everything. He's just thrown away an army because he doesn't trust he has the right to make those kind of decisions, and then immediately makes one of those decisions.

    I'm a bit sick of Clara now, they've turned her into a very unsympathetic character this series. Threatening the doctor to save Danny, threatening to hit the doctor if he speaks for her, forcing the doctor to kill, telling the doctor to immediately come and kill Danny or otherwise basically go to hell...I know they briefly mentioned her being a control freak but it really makes me stop rooting for her. Also the reason for Missy putting her and the doctor together seemed pretty flimsy.
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    Personally I really enjoyed that. Let's be honest, packing a finale into an hour that can match Dark Water is impossible, and it showed - the Cybermen being little more than toys grated on me, as did Missy not actually having a rule-the-world plan. But compared to other series (*cough* Teselecta *cough*) it was heart-wrenching, furiously exciting and vigorously entertaining. Capaldi and Gomez were exceptional, I may have to concede that I prefer Capaldi to Eccleston as the Doctor, and that's high praise indeed from me. He just encapsulates the tragic hero perfectly.

    Danny's death was handled well, if a little too long. To everyone complaining: imagine if he'd lived. He died and the woman who loved him had to watch.

    +1 for the Lethbridge-Stewart reference, they've been subtle with him in a fair few episodes now so allowing him to take centre stage and get a proper goodbye as part of the storyline is pleasing.
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    Why did Missy try to kill the Doctor with the whole blowing up the plane thing if the plan was to give him an army?
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    very cleverly done, really liked it, wonder if we have truly seen the last of the master though, they always return somehow! Gallifrey must be out there as well, how else could the master/missy have got back to earth? will Clara and the Doctor get back together as well? they both lied before they parted, both thinking the other was about to do the same, so sad!

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    Nick Frost as Father Christmas looks pretty epic as well
 
 
 
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