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    (Original post by nexttime)
    Can you imagine how big a target a bomb shelter under construction would be? Israel will bomb your children before you're halfway done.
    Of course with Israel citing the potential for Hamas to store weapons there as sufficient reasoning to bomb it.
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Gaza reporter startled by Hamas terrorist rocket fire

    Remember they "don't use civilian areas to fire from" (Jeremy Bowen)

    Given that 1.5 million people are contained within an area the size of the Isle of Wight with no means of escape, where would you consider not to be a 'civilian area'?
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    Of course with Israel citing the potential for Hamas to store weapons there as sufficient reasoning to bomb it.
    Let's face it, if bomb shelters for civilians existed in Gaza for the public they would get packed with explosive and would go off if anything exploded near it.
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    Yet Another UN School Bombed By Israel

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/0...0FV04D20140803

    Seems like these Zionists really are thirsty for the blood of children.
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    (Original post by Suetonius)
    Given that 1.5 million people are contained within an area the size of the Isle of Wight with no means of escape, where would you consider not to be a 'civilian area'?
    You could have a look at the discussion TSR and I are having. Perhaps you could help him out. He's having difficulty explaining why the empty farm fields are not a better alternative for firing rockets as opposed to the overcrowded hospitals and schools.
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    Yet more Hamas hiding like cowards behind innocent children because they're not man enough to face the music.
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    (Original post by XMaramena)
    Yet more Hamas hiding like cowards behind innocent children because they're not man enough to face the music.
    Proof?

    Or is it another lie by the IDF like how they claimed the 3 teenagers were kidnapped by Hamas? Or how they claimed recently that the British Zionist Soldier was kidnapped by Hamas? (SPOILER: They were both lies)
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    (Original post by miavdbt)

    You're right, warning systems are redundant because Hamas wants their civilians to stay where they are anyway. Israel warns them. Must suck for Hamas. Israel treating Gazan civilians in a more humanitarian manner than Hamas does.

    Either way, I'm pretty sure you're just insisting on this unrealistic nonsense about self sustenance (which hasn't happened and will not happen for a while anyway) just so you don't have to admit that Hamas can use farm land to fire its rockets from and not put its civilians at risk. Is it so difficult to admit that your heroes are not infallible?
    DO you even have any evidence (and the IDF doesn't count) for this whole "Hamas won't let them move" claim? You lot are constantly making it but won't back it up.
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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    Imagine if 3,127 rockets were fired at London or New York, even with defense systems and bomb shelters

    Bombing Gaza isnt just self defense, its morality
    Imagine if the London or New York was blockaded and the people were forced to live in poverty.

    Resistance isn't terrorism, it's morality.

    p.s. in neither case it it "morality".
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    DO you even have any evidence (and the IDF doesn't count) for this whole "Hamas won't let them move" claim? You lot are constantly making it but won't back it up.
    I did back it up. With a statement by them.
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    (Original post by Suetonius)
    Given that 1.5 million people are contained within an area the size of the Isle of Wight with no means of escape, where would you consider not to be a 'civilian area'?

    May I suggest less BBC-watching and more fact-finding?


    https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Gaz...8955cbe285984e
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    I did back it up. With a statement by them.
    How many dozen pages ago?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    DO you even have any evidence (and the IDF doesn't count) for this whole "Hamas won't let them move" claim? You lot are constantly making it but won't back it up.
    You've obviously ignored a lot of posts.



    Fast forward to about 0:20
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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    Blockade coming after the rocket attacks began and weapons being smuggled...
    Indeed.

    First rocket fired = 2001
    Israel withdrawal from Gaza = 2005
    Blockade = 2007
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    One thing I'm curious about is whether Hamas rocket fire on Israel has significantly decreased since Israel begun bombarding "military" targets in Gaza.

    If not, you'd have to question the effectiveness of this tactic by the IDF. As not only are they causing an unacceptable level of civilian casualties (as stated by numerous official international entities) but they are also breeding a new generation of Hamas fighters. When such a considerable number of innocents are killed in a conflict it just breeds hate and fuels a lust for revenge. The IDF are essentially providing Hamas with a ready-made recruitment strategy. And when a group like Hamas, which for all intents and purposes is a terrorist organisation, is being readily supplicated with members hell-bent on revenge against Israel, it makes reaching any diplomatic agreements for peace almost impossible. As understandably, Israel would find the idea of a two state solution (with blockades removed) inconceivable if the group running the opposing state has sects that would love nothing more than to see them wiped out.

    Aside from future issues, one would also have to ask whether trying to bomb out of existence a group like Hamas, who hides within the civilian populace, can actually be achieved without wiping out the whole of Gaza. It's quite clear Hamas have no qualms about firing from houses, hospitals and (potentially) schools, so how on earth do you expect to effectively target an entity like that when their area of operation is essentially the entire Gaza strip. What's worrying is that the possibility of the whole of Gaza being raised to the ground might not be that far outside the realms of reality as it seems the IDF have developed a blatant disregard for Palestinian life judging by the what's happened so far in the conflict (the rocket warnings they provide are laughable when almost half of Gaza is a warzone and civilians essentially have no sufficient shelter against bomb blasts).

    In all honesty, I think the only rational reason for the IDF to be continuing this bombardment of Gaza is to create the illusion for Israeli citizens that they are actively doing something about the continual stream of rockets Hamas sends into Israel. Although when you consider the number of civilian casualties actually experienced by Israel you have to wonder how serious of a threat Hamas rockets truly are to the population. Israel's security measures against such attacks are highly effective (Iron dome, sirens, bomb shelters etc) therefore when all actualities are considered, the IDF's bombardment of Gaza is almost certainly counter-productive to achieving their aims of peace and safety for Israeli citizens.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    How many dozen pages ago?
    I'd also like to say that you did twist my words. In my statement, I said Hamas wants them to stay not made them stay (for that, I can't provide evidence yet, but no doubt that will come up eventually). Anyway, here's a Reuters article:

    Hamas, whose internal political leadership is in hiding, said its broadcasters Al-Aqsa TV and Al-Aqsa Radio were also targeted. The television station continued to broadcast but the radio station went silent.

    The military said the stations were used to "transit orders and messages to Hamas operatives and to instruct Gaza residents to ignore IDF (Israel Defence Forces) warnings regarding upcoming military activity in specific areas."

    If this is not enough, here is a statement by Hamas themselves.


    “To all of our people who have evacuated their homes – return to them immediately and do not leave the house,” said a statement titled “Urgent call to the residents of the Gaza Strip” released by the Hamas Interior Ministry, Ynet
    reported. “You must follow the directives of the Interior Ministry. This is psychological warfare, random messages to instill panic in people.”



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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    You've obviously ignored a lot of posts.



    Fast forward to about 0:20
    So, these people are making this claim. Can you please point out on that list where Hamas is? They also quite like telling us that they mostly don't affiliate with Hamas. And, as one of the comments pointed out, it's not really an instruction to be a human shield. The instruction to be a human shield would be to congregate at the places Hamas tell them to where the weapons have been placed.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    One thing I'm curious about is whether Hamas rocket fire on Israel has significantly decreased since Israel begun bombarding "military" targets in Gaza.

    If not, you'd have to question the effectiveness of this tactic by the IDF.
    They have spent years building up their rocket infrastructure. Much of it is buried underground.

    It would take a long time to devastate it to the point of no more rockets being fired.

    You obviously have a poor grasp of military understanding.
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    They have spent years building up their rocket infrastructure. Much of it is buried underground.

    It would take a long time to devastate it to the point of no more rockets being fired.
    Except, the other day the IDF claimed it would;d take them three days to destroy the tunnel network, and surely given how many missile attacks and shellings Israel has made on Gaza the current supply should be as good as gone. Well, if they actually bothered attacking predominantly military targets.

    You obviously have a poor grasp of military understanding.
    Nice joke.
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    (Original post by broscience123)
    (SPOILER: They were both lies)
    Proof?
 
 
 
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