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    (Original post by 419)
    I disagree with this VV is at best an average all round keeper and you can't really say he has the best distribution for a GK when 99% of the time all he does he pass it 10 yards to either of the 2 CBs- and don't forget that most teams play 1 up front against Barca, so one of the two CBs will always be free especially with the positioning they take when VV's got the ball- he's not really being asked to do much. He doesn't come anywhere close to Reina of VDS. I'd even rate Carlos Kameni and Gomez better than him in terms of distribution.



    No way, you must have realise yourself that you have over exaggerated the importance of VV by putting him on par with those players. It's not just the world class of these players that makes them immense, it also the aura and everything else that comes along with their presence.

    With the way Barca plays and how 90% of their matches work out, they don't really need a world class keeper they can easily get away with an average goalkeepr, hell imo even with Almunia they'll still win a lot of trophies. Their keeper isn't really asked to do much and I might be wrong but i can't really remeber their defence being ever exposed in matches and team having easy chances against them- AA's goal against them is the ONLY example I can think of them being that exposed.

    All I'm saying is give me a choice of facing a Barca with either VV or Puyol. I'd say they have VV 100% of the time :yes:.

    I totally have to disagree with you there mate. VV is, by all accounts a pretty crap goalkeeper. But his distribution is easily his best asset, and as Barca play a possession game they utilise this to the MAX. I watch la liga quite a bit, and trust me, he doesn't just make 10 yard passes to the CB, he spreads the play, hits long accurately to pretty short players, and in general, ensures Barca retain possession.

    If you watched our match closely against Barca, you'd have noticed the fairly stark contrast between our keeper and theres. Whenever VV got the ball, he'd always look to use it intelligently, he'd pass it to a Barca player 98% of the time. This was in contrast to Chesney, and I'm not slating him here, as I think hes the best Arsenal have had in a while, but whever Chesney got the ball it was usually a hoof down field. Once or twice he played it short/ accurately long and we managed to keep possession and build up our play.

    I think GK's role as a initiator of attacks/ ability to help keep possession is grossly underestimated ever since the back pass rule came about
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    (Original post by PlasticBag)
    he may have made a stunning save but he is not as good on the floor as Valdes. Valdes is absoloutley essential to the way barca play. He is easily has the best distribution for a goalkeeper in the world by a fairly clear margin. Reina and Van der Sar may be good at throwing etc, but Valdes's is on a different level, he starts the majority of Barca attacks and keeps them ticking over when they do come back into their area.


    A much much bigger blow for Barca than Puyol etc. He rivals Xavi, Messi and pique in terms of importance for their team. Add to that Pinto is a pretty crappy goalkeeper, means that they should be slightly worried.

    But hey, lets see how they do with 2 first choice CB's and their first choice goalie out.
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    (Original post by 419)
    I disagree with this VV is at best an average all round keeper and you can't really say he has the best distribution for a GK when 99% of the time all he does he pass it 10 yards to either of the 2 CBs- and don't forget that most teams play 1 up front against Barca, so one of the two CBs will always be free especially with the positioning they take when VV's got the ball- he's not really being asked to do much. He doesn't come anywhere close to Reina of VDS. I'd even rate Carlos Kameni and Gomez better than him in terms of distribution.



    No way, you must have realise yourself that you have over exaggerated the importance of VV by putting him on par with those players. It's not just the world class of these players that makes them immense, it also the aura and everything else that comes along with their presence.

    With the way Barca plays and how 90% of their matches work out, they don't really need a world class keeper they can easily get away with an average goalkeepr, hell imo even with Almunia they'll still win a lot of trophies. Their keeper isn't really asked to do much and I might be wrong but i can't really remeber their defence being ever exposed in matches and team having easy chances against them- AA's goal against them is the ONLY example I can think of them being that exposed.

    All I'm saying is give me a choice of facing a Barca with either VV or Puyol. I'd say they have VV 100% of the time :yes:.

    And I'm not rating VV on par with Xavi et all in general footballing terms, I'm rating him in context of how important he is to Barca and not world football as a whole.
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    Man U for the Title!...Triple Crown maybe, FA, Premiership and Champions league?!?! What do you boys think??? Bit of a one horse race for the premiership, no?! : )
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    Just to confirm...I am a United fan!
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    (Original post by Nicho)
    Just to confirm...I am a United fan!
    :eek: Really?
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    Haha, Sorry boys...felt like a bit of a t**t posting that...in reality, the title race is hotting up, and should be a good run in to the end of the season. May the best Team win! When do Arsenal play United, anyone know???
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    (Original post by PlasticBag)
    I totally have to disagree with you there mate. VV is, by all accounts a pretty crap goalkeeper. But his distribution is easily his best asset, and as Barca play a possession game they utilise this to the MAX. I watch la liga quite a bit, and trust me, he doesn't just make 10 yard passes to the CB, he spreads the play, hits long accurately to pretty short players, and in general, ensures Barca retain possession.

    If you watched our match closely against Barca, you'd have noticed the fairly stark contrast between our keeper and theres. Whenever VV got the ball, he'd always look to use it intelligently, he'd pass it to a Barca player 98% of the time. This was in contrast to Chesney, and I'm not slating him here, as I think hes the best Arsenal have had in a while, but whever Chesney got the ball it was usually a hoof down field. Once or twice he played it short/ accurately long and we managed to keep possession and build up our play.

    I think GK's role as a initiator of attacks/ ability to help keep possession is grossly underestimated ever since the back pass rule came about
    Admitedly since coming to Uni, I've being watching less La liga.

    His distribution is definetly is best assest but like everything else with this Barca team, his ability is made to look deceptively 100x than it actually is. It's not because of his distributing ability that he keep making these passes. NO. Its because of the way Barca set up and how their opponents also set up. If you notice everytime he has the ball, the two CB go to either side of the 18 yard box and Barca formation almost becomes 2-3-4-1 and teams just haven't found a way to counter it yet. Also put this into account along with the fact that most team just want to defend against Barca and are too occupied with this to bother with presssure VV kicks meaning he has all the time in the world to pick his passes and usually probably has 4 options available.

    Now this bring me to the point you brought on about Chesney (or Jens II- as I like to call him) distribution against them. The only really he hoofs it beacuse of how Barca set up, they pressure team high up the pitch so he's pretty much left with no choice but to hoof it. Trust me if their was a shorter pass he'd do it. Two examples come to mined- one is him doing a high risk shortish pass to Clichy but can't remember which match and also him to a Cruffy turn in the Penalty box against Wolves I think. Remember we are a pass on the floor first team as well.
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    (Original post by Nicho)
    Haha, Sorry boys...felt like a bit of a t**t posting that...in reality, the title race is hotting up, and should be a good run in to the end of the season. May the best Team win! When do Arsenal play United, anyone know???
    You really are a united "fan".
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    PATHETIC performance.

    I don't know when Wenger will learn. He made just about as many changes against the likes of Leeds and Ipswich, and we barely passed their challenges.

    And yet he goes about making just as many changes in a crucial game like this.

    Also, having Almunia, Squillaci, and Denilson on the field at the same time is practically suicide.

    Chamakh was rubbish. Bendtner was **** for someone who claims to be one of the best, and he doesn't seem to care with all that chewing he does on the field. Arshavin wasn't great either. It was nerve-wracking to see Miquel with the ball, he was nervous but then again he's on his debut.

    Arsenal player of the day was probably Gibbs imo. Solid runs forward.
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    Are reserves are rubbish, unfortunately.

    This summer we need to sign some squad players, our first team is 99% sorted.

    At least 2 of the following 5 need to be replaced in the summer. (in increasing order)

    Squillaci

    Denilson (hopefully ramsey)

    Almunia (not even a good enough backup)

    Chamakh

    Bendtner


    We could recoup £25-30m for them 5, if Wenger was shrewd enough.
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    (Original post by T.Adams VI)
    Are reserves are rubbish, unfortunately.

    This summer we need to sign some squad players, our first team is 99% sorted.

    At least 2 of the following 5 need to be replaced in the summer. (in increasing order)

    Squillaci

    Denilson (hopefully ramsey)

    Almunia (not even a good enough backup)

    Chamakh

    Bendtner


    We could recoup £25-30m for them 5, if Wenger was shrewd enough.
    Chamakh :shock:
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    The day we can play our following first 11, It'll be the proudest day of my life:

    Cheszsny

    Sagna Koscielny Vermaelen Clichy

    Song Wilshere
    Cesc

    Walcott RVP Nasri


    We can only hope...
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    (Original post by 419)
    If you notice everytime he has the ball, the two CB go to either side of the 18 yard box and Barca formation almost becomes 2-3-4-1 and teams just haven't found a way to counter it yet. Also put this into account along with the fact that most team just want to defend against Barca and are too occupied with this to bother with presssure VV kicks meaning he has all the time in the world to pick his passes and usually probably has 4 options available.

    The only really he hoofs it beacuse of how Barca set up, they pressure team high up the pitch so he's pretty much left with no choice but to hoof it. Trust me if their was a shorter pass he'd do it.
    Agree to ALL of that. I can guarantee that in Nou Camp, when it's VV GK he will 99% of times pass to either Abidal/Puyol because they will stay just outside their penatly box and then build their game up from there. I'm sure many managers have seen that in most of Barca's matches but why haven't they tried to push their own strikers near the Barca's defence, so VV has no option but to blast it up.???(Barca knows that heading the ball with Xavi/Iniesta is pointless, so instead they use this technique so they never lose ball possession).

    Their strikers Pedro/Villa/Messi also pressures high up on the pitch even when the opponent has the GK so that they have to blast it up and therefore they can't themselves build their passing game.(E.g- Arsenal's/Madrid match)
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    (Original post by In2deep)
    What!??! How dare you?!?!?!


    He's only 24, too many injuries and sadly unlucky :puppyeyes:
    Eduardo was the same though - albeit not as young - he had bags of ability, but consistent injuries meant it wasn't worth keeping hold of him.
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    (Original post by T.Adams VI)
    Are reserves are rubbish, unfortunately.

    This summer we need to sign some squad players, our first team is 99% sorted.

    At least 2 of the following 5 need to be replaced in the summer. (in increasing order)

    Squillaci

    Denilson (hopefully ramsey)

    Almunia (not even a good enough backup)

    Chamakh

    Bendtner


    We could recoup £25-30m for them 5, if Wenger was shrewd enough.
    I think you mean decreasing. :p:

    Squillaci is definitely the worst player in our squad.
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    (Original post by T.Adams VI)
    Are reserves are rubbish, unfortunately.

    This summer we need to sign some squad players, our first team is 99% sorted.

    At least 2 of the following 5 need to be replaced in the summer. (in increasing order)

    Squillaci

    Denilson (hopefully ramsey)

    Almunia (not even a good enough backup)

    Chamakh

    Bendtner


    We could recoup £25-30m for them 5, if Wenger was shrewd enough.
    I doubt it. We'd be lucky to get more than £15mill. Almunia and Squillaci would basically leave on a free. Bendtner would fetch us the most money especially with all his self hype, but then he's one of those annoying players who'd suddenly become good elsewhere and start scoring against us trying to prove we made a mistake.

    Personally I think with the exception of GK where we defo need a better backup, the rest can be replaced by our youth team. JET imho is miles better than Chamakh and Bendtner and should be given a chance. Ramsey and Landsbury are also likely to be very good back up.
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      (Original post by Complex Simplicity)
      Personally I think with the exception of GK where we defo need a better backup, the rest can be replaced by our youth team. JET imho is miles better than Chamakh and Bendtner and should be given a chance. Ramsey and Landsbury are also likely to be very good back up.
      Coquelin is also back at the end of the season from Lorient, where he's apparently doing quite well. Also, I believe both Ryo and Wellington Silva are due back next season as well. :yy:
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      JET is not better than Chamakh, give us a break.
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        (Original post by Colonel.)
        JET is not better than Chamakh, give us a break.
        Not currently, agreed. He could be in the future, but I think people are being a bit harsh on Chamakh: he was bought as backup, deputized well when asked to, and has since struggled to find both fitness and form in his first season in the Premiership. I feel he's been a useful acquisition.
       
       
       
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