Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by da_nolo)

    I played football for a team referred to as 'boys home'. these were kids who were never adopted. I work with one of them today, as well as had contact with many over the years. they are rather content and happy with their lives. what a person's live may be like, does not warrant a death penalty.
    Wow you know a few children in care who are happy?! Does that mean they ALL must be happy then? Does it account for the other 91,000? (and thats just the UK...)
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ghostly.)
    Wow you know a few children in care who are happy?! Does that mean they ALL must be happy then? Does it account for the other 91,000? (and thats just the UK...)
    I am sorry but this happiness thing is rather insane. A persons value is not determined by how happy they are, or how happy you perceive them to be. If this was the case you might as well purge the 3rd world.

    Besides the assumption that the child will be unhappy is false but leaving that aside just because a child is unhappy does not mean they will be forever. For if the key to happiness is to have a family they would have one 20-30 years down the road anyway.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by edithwashere)
    If you care so goddamn much about lowering abortion rates, go out and promote contraception, thus preventing pregnancy in the first place. Funny how when women like me who have had abortions have commented, you retreat right into your shell and say nothing. I think you are a coward and a hypocrite. You show all the empathy in the world for unborn foetuses, yet none whatsoever for grown human adults who are in horrible situations because of pregnancy. How about this case for starters: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/18/crit...ving_abortion/

    This is what happens when abortion is illegal. Women face imprisonment for having valid miscarriages, women who need abortions to save their own lives are punished, women who are raped are forced to raise the children of their rapists, women who do not want children or cannot support children financially, socially or otherwise are forced to have them regardless. By promoting an end to abortion, you are promoting what the UN describes as TORTURE. http://www.policymic.com/articles/30...ion-as-torture

    You know what torture is, right? Would you like to be tortured? Do you think any human adult deserves to be tortured because of another human who doesn't even exist yet?

    You clearly have NO concept of what it is like to have an abortion, the valid reasons for having abortion, nor the ways in which a foetus develops, and thus your opinion remains just that, an OPINION. Thank god that the rest of the world isn't as ignorant as you.

    Oh, and by the way, two abortions down and I'll probably have more in my lifetime. So will hundreds of thousands of other women. Get the hell over it. There are more important things to worry about rather than bullying women who decide to take their lives into their own hands. Women always have, and always will have abortions, whether you bloody like it or not. The state should provide services for abortion because otherwise, women are denied basic healthcare rights - basic HUMAN RIGHTS. If you don't want an abortion, then don't have one. Until then, how about you keep your hurtful and bigoted opinions to yourself.
    Here we go again, this is the same medieval attitude that made people have "If you are not a witch hunter you are a witch", in your case if you do not approve of abortion you approve of imprisoning and killing women; which is utter crap. Just because we wish to prevent 93% of unnecessary killings it doesn't mean we can't make amends for where the lives of mothers are threatened.

    Oh and please spare me the emotional turmoil you were in, or the difficulties the pregnancy created, when compared to killing a life it is like a butcher saying "This hurts me more than it hurts you" before proceeding to throat a lamb.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ghostly.)
    Wow you know a few children in care who are happy?! Does that mean they ALL must be happy then? Does it account for the other 91,000? (and thats just the UK...)
    It proves that the prior claim, “you should have an abortion or let the kid be not happy or suffer in life (based on being unhappy)”, is a false dilemma.
    It does not have to be that way.


    Let’s go over “happy”. No human is happy all the time. Kids become unhappy by spilling milk, losing a game, and all sorts of reasons. So to say you should kill a human offspring just because they will be unhappy is asinine. You really want to kill over spilled milk?

    now, if someone really wants to complain about the conditions a child may meet. first look at abortion funding.

    in the states, planned parenthood generated 201 million usd. in 2011
    in the u.k. taxpayers spent "£118m on abortions in 2010."

    now, lets say abortion became illegal. all that money could go to making sure that kids for adoption have awesome facilities, great health care, etc. & low income families could receive way more help than they already do.

    there are plenty of groups that help now, but this much money pushed into the system would be like walking on a gold road.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gray Wolf)
    I have a ball in my hand. I drop the ball, now with interfering without the ball it will most definitely fall to the floor. This is its natural cycle. I let go, ball falls, ball hits the ground. The fact that the ball will fall is a fact. Now let me ask you, what is the difference between me releasing the ball, catching it before it even leaves my hand and burning it and me dropping the ball and catching it half-way and burning it. The answer is; there is none! You end a natural cycle before its definite end, you kill of the emotions, the experiences it was definitely going to have; you have killed a person.

    Now let me give you some statistics:

    196,082 abortions in the UK in 2011
    44,000,000 abortions (that is 44 million) in the world
    Let me put this in to perspective, in 10 years you have killed more than the population of the united States.

    7% of abortions are for either a consequence of rape or health problems to the mother. The rest is because of social reasons. This just infuriates me, if you don't kill your fellow man to steal his money why kill your own child?

    Millions are killed every year because people are unable to make an emotional connection with them just because they are bound in a sack of skin. The same people that say "How could the Nazis kill millions of people" well they did it the same way you do!

    (the You refers to everyone supporting abortion)

    Thank you for reading,

    Gray Wolf


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-england-wales

    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journ...et-2012-01.pdf
    So you're against abortion. Good for you. But we do live in a world when people have a right to decide for themselves. I do agree that having a baby you don't want to have is worse than abortion. And that argument that people shpuldn't have sex if they're not ready for a child - ridiculous. Some people don't want to havr children at all, like never. Should they live in a celibate then? Don't think so.
    And if you're against anything natural then I reckon you're against IVF too? And euthanasia? Because it's not natural after all.
    I'm pro abortion. But I don't feel bad about it. Same thing goes for IVF and euthanasia.
    There are a lot of ethical dilemmas related to abortion. It's always going to bring up heated debates.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by edithwashere)
    If you care so goddamn much about lowering abortion rates, go out and promote contraception, thus preventing pregnancy in the first place. Funny how when women like me who have had abortions have commented, you retreat right into your shell and say nothing. I think you are a coward and a hypocrite. You show all the empathy in the world for unborn foetuses, yet none whatsoever for grown human adults who are in horrible situations because of pregnancy. How about this case for starters: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/18/crit...ving_abortion/

    This is what happens when abortion is illegal. Women face imprisonment for having valid miscarriages, women who need abortions to save their own lives are punished, women who are raped are forced to raise the children of their rapists, women who do not want children or cannot support children financially, socially or otherwise are forced to have them regardless. By promoting an end to abortion, you are promoting what the UN describes as TORTURE. http://www.policymic.com/articles/30...ion-as-torture

    You know what torture is, right? Would you like to be tortured? Do you think any human adult deserves to be tortured because of another human who doesn't even exist yet?

    You clearly have NO concept of what it is like to have an abortion, the valid reasons for having abortion, nor the ways in which a foetus develops, and thus your opinion remains just that, an OPINION. Thank god that the rest of the world isn't as ignorant as you.

    Oh, and by the way, two abortions down and I'll probably have more in my lifetime. So will hundreds of thousands of other women. Get the hell over it. There are more important things to worry about rather than bullying women who decide to take their lives into their own hands. Women always have, and always will have abortions, whether you bloody like it or not. The state should provide services for abortion because otherwise, women are denied basic healthcare rights - basic HUMAN RIGHTS. If you don't want an abortion, then don't have one. Until then, how about you keep your hurtful and bigoted opinions to yourself.
    Completely agree with this one

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gray Wolf)
    I have a ball in my hand. I drop the ball, now with interfering without the ball it will most definitely fall to the floor. This is its natural cycle. I let go, ball falls, ball hits the ground. The fact that the ball will fall is a fact. Now let me ask you, what is the difference between me releasing the ball, catching it before it even leaves my hand and burning it and me dropping the ball and catching it half-way and burning it. The answer is; there is none! You end a natural cycle before its definite end, you kill of the emotions, the experiences it was definitely going to have; you have killed a person.

    Now let me give you some statistics:

    196,082 abortions in the UK in 2011
    44,000,000 abortions (that is 44 million) in the world
    Let me put this in to perspective, in 10 years you have killed more than the population of the united States.

    7% of abortions are for either a consequence of rape or health problems to the mother. The rest is because of social reasons. This just infuriates me, if you don't kill your fellow man to steal his money why kill your own child?

    Millions are killed every year because people are unable to make an emotional connection with them just because they are bound in a sack of skin. The same people that say "How could the Nazis kill millions of people" well they did it the same way you do!

    (the You refers to everyone supporting abortion)

    Thank you for reading,

    Gray Wolf


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-england-wales

    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journ...et-2012-01.pdf
    Most retarded analogy I've ever read. The reason it is flawed is that a ball does not change as it falls, an embryo changes as it matures. I am a doctor of tomorrow and I support pro choice. If you have a problem with that feel free to pm me and I will flame you down to hell, because honestly, there are legitimate ethical considerations that need to be considered in abortions. But your view is lack and white, is judgemental, and is wrong. And by that I mean it is factually wrong. A better analogy would be would you kill a fly compared to killing a mouse compared to killing a dog compared to killing an ape compared to killing a human. At least that would acknowledge that it isn't a lack and white issue and that where you draw the line is a point that can be argued upon.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hypocrism)
    Actually, the majority of DNA in a fish is the same. Same with great apes, bananas, ...
    lets state this correctly. some portions of dna found in fish is the same as humans, but this does not make them human.

    therefore the production organs and steps are similar, but not the same as you claimed.

    I stated, "the process and the manner it is described is similar."
    this means that there are similarities. however, as stated above, this does not mean they are the same. the dna is still different in very drastic ways.

    Why this obsession with biological matter? As I've said before, this cold, biological perspective on human life degrades humanity far more than the pro choice perspective
    it actually does the opposite which you state. this strict and always valid approach restricts people from diminishing another human based on their attributes and being different.

    the nazis killed the jews for many reasons, but they viewed them as not humans (different).
    many white supremacists look at those of 'color' as being not humans (different).
    common U.S. historical view upon indigenous peoples (native Americans), not human (different).
    argue that pro-abortionists have used to justify their actions - the child is not human (different).

    note, that the "different" emphasizes that all these groups (and more) thought/think/saw their, for a lack of a better word, targets as different and these targets are only different though still human.

    there being only one scientific claim to whom is human restricts that. it may not prevent everyone from becoming astray, but its a great indication how we are all humans, and all deserve respect, based on a single absolute condition.

    my opinion of the value of human life is based on more important things than that....valuing a human being for their personality, the love it took for them to exist, their thoughts and wishes, their experiences.
    personality is sum of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinct character.
    what is quality? what defines these aspects of personality?
    pre-born have characteristics to them, so they must have value.
    do we humans have value based on characteristics or our existence?

    we humans have value based on our thoughts and wishes? what about rapists, murderers, and terrorists? they have them...are you saying they have value as well?

    value based on "the love it took for them to exist"? there have been numerous accounts of adults living sustainable and wonderful lives, though having been conceived due to rape. these humans have no value?

    what do you define or qualify as experiences? not everyone has the same experiences: such as the pre-born who are experiencing life, the kid in a wheel chair, the man who can run and is running away from cops for putting the kid in the wheel chair, the woman who was raped, the rapist...these people have experiences. are you saying they have personal value because of it?

    do you see? this is the flaw in trying to diminish who is human based on value or quality. it will never be the same for everyone. there will never be equality amongst humanity. throw it away and leave it behind. all humans are humans. we all should be respected and acknowledged as human.



    It's almost materialistic to call something with human DNA "human" just because it has that DNA. What if we recombine the entire human genome into a virus?
    since the coding is not what the virus needs, it will no longer exist.


    It's the human condition that makes a human special.
    the human condition is based on dna. you would not be able to do anything that you are capable of doing if you did not have your human dna.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sereni)
    Most retarded analogy I've ever read. The reason it is flawed is that a ball does not change as it falls, an embryo changes as it matures. I am a doctor of tomorrow and I support pro choice. If you have a problem with that feel free to pm me and I will flame you down to hell, because honestly, there are legitimate ethical considerations that need to be considered in abortions. But your view is lack and white, is judgemental, and is wrong. And by that I mean it is factually wrong. A better analogy would be would you kill a fly compared to killing a mouse compared to killing a dog compared to killing an ape compared to killing a human. At least that would acknowledge that it isn't a lack and white issue and that where you draw the line is a point that can be argued upon.
    which part is judgmental?


    (Original post by Care-Free)
    Being in a stable relationship doesnt mean you're ready to have your life ripped apart by an unwanted child.
    begging the question.
    there is no absolute that your life will not be ripped apart by being pregnant and giving birth. there are laws in the u.k. that prevent descrimination in work place which applies to pregnant women. there are several groups that help mothers in the process of being pregnant.

    Aborting is taking responsibility for your actions
    responsibility involves "taking care of" and "being accountable for (the child)". killing the child does not involve either of these.

    its not an easy way out, its something they will have to live with the rest of their lives.
    so why not decide against it? adoption is and responsible and joyful than abortion. if things are so horrific or as described by someone who has had an abortion, "horrid". why go through with it?
    because it is quick? because it costs less? these excuses give the impression that it is easier than or an easy way out. though it is not easy.
    [/QUOTE]
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by rainbow.panda)
    I do know that and take the necessary precautions, and I shouldn't be punished if an accident occurs. My body, my rules, and no-one will ever take my right to control my destiny away from me.
    what if you decided to make a decision that caused another human person to die?
    would you still have that ability to make the decision? should you?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sereni)
    Most retarded analogy I've ever read. The reason it is flawed is that a ball does not change as it falls, an embryo changes as it matures. I am a doctor of tomorrow and I support pro choice. If you have a problem with that feel free to pm me and I will flame you down to hell, because honestly, there are legitimate ethical considerations that need to be considered in abortions. But your view is lack and white, is judgemental, and is wrong. And by that I mean it is factually wrong. A better analogy would be would you kill a fly compared to killing a mouse compared to killing a dog compared to killing an ape compared to killing a human. At least that would acknowledge that it isn't a lack and white issue and that where you draw the line is a point that can be argued upon.
    Thank you for your input. Could you please elaborate on the ethical considerations that need to be considered in abortions?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Spontogical)
    they're completely irrelevant.

    The main function of sex is pregnancy.

    The main reason people buy a car is to get to places.

    :/
    The main function of life is pregnancy. That doesn't stop you having fun doing things it wasn't designed for...
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by da_nolo)

    begging the question.
    there is no absolute that your life will not be ripped apart by being pregnant and giving birth. there are laws in the u.k. that prevent descrimination in work place which applies to pregnant women. there are several groups that help mothers in the process of being pregnant.
    What about a couple who dont have jobs yet? a couple at uni for example, one or both of them will have to drop out, causing resentment between them, they'll have lost their chance at education, they'll have lost their chance to do what they want in life, they'll have potentially no home, no money, no livelyhood, yeah they might get benefits, a house off the council, im sure ambitious students would love to be in that position?...at what point is their life not ruined? At what point do you think they'd stop resenting this child?

    taking responsibility does not mean looking after it at all, it means making the best decision to remedy the problem, you think a woman will just get on with her life afterwards? the abortion process after a certain time is horrendous and down right traumatising, its going to stay with her for the rest of her life, its going to haunt her, she's going to hate herself at times. Care homes are already full, why add more unwanted children, children who will grow up knowing they were a mistake, a child who may not ever be adopted, a child who will grow up knowing it was never loved...and who do you think that child will blame? themselves, they'll be miserable, they'll be angry, they'll be insecure...why force a child to live like that...how is that better than ending the "life" where there's no consciousness, the only person being hurt is the woman.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by edithwashere)
    If you care so much about lowering abortion rates, go out and promote contraception, thus preventing pregnancy in the first place.
    there have been pregnancies in which contraceptives failed. there are cases in which abortion failed and some children in this case were saved and allowed to live.

    the greatest and 100% fail proof plan to not getting pregnant is not having sex. in cases of rape, I want to prevent the rape, not the child that is born - of whom may help find his/her father. how? dna.

    Funny how when women like me who have had abortions have commented, you retreat right into your shell and say nothing.
    I think you are a coward and a hypocrite.
    Ad hominem

    You show all the empathy in the world for unborn foetuses, yet none whatsoever for grown human adults who are in horrible situations because of pregnancy.
    as above. you have no indication or evidence that I show zero or "none" or no empathy for women or any adult involved w/ abortion.

    How about this case for starters: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/18/crit...ving_abortion/
    this is a unique case involving many factors. the conditions in which the mother's life must be at risk is to be taken into consideration. the child "not being human" is impossible to consider as it is not true. other factors still remain. I do not know a whole bunch on this case to give a full statement, but I will gladly study it further if you wish for my response.

    This is what happens when abortion is illegal. Women face imprisonment for having valid miscarriages,
    a miscarriage is an abortion of no intent. surgical abortion is not a miscarriage. no body has been arrested for a miscarriage.

    women who need abortions to save their own lives are not punished and were not punished prior to abrotion to being legal. they would not be if abortion law was rewritten according to science.


    women who are raped are forced to raise the children of their rapists,
    adoption? oh yea, no body is forced to "raise the child" under the sense of remaining that child's or children's legal gardian. in regards to pregnancy, abortion does not reverse or take care of or helps deal with the rape. a pregnancy has been proven to help some women in healing. there is no absolute indication that a pregnancy must create a prolonged revisit to the rape itself.

    the act of being raped does not diminish a human being. we must support these women and children (conceived of rape).

    please consider the voice of this woman. "I myself have had an abortion, and there was an element of sexual assault in that pregnancy."http://www.feministsforlife.org/FFL_...ry/2ndrape.htm

    women who do not want children or cannot support children financially
    have other options than abortion and putting themselves in the sitution to having the children (under circumstance of not being raped).

    can not support child socially
    :confused: you can't give the child attention or interact w/ the child? adoption.

    or otherwise are forced to have them regardless.
    sure beats death. however, I would argue that there is no "regardless". there is a consideration of abrotion in cases where the mother's life is indeed at risk.

    By promoting an end to abortion, you are promoting what the UN describes as TORTURE. http://www.policymic.com/articles/30...ion-as-torture
    you can't join the u.n. unless you accept abortion and have abortion in your country. this is injustice at its core.

    I do not view birth as torture under the circumstances discussed in this thread.
    could you describe birth as torture?
    ....because of another human who doesn't even exist yet?
    science has already determined that the human child already exists.

    You clearly have NO concept of what it is like to have an abortion, the valid reasons for having abortion, nor the ways in which a foetus develops, and thus your opinion remains just that, an OPINION.
    Ad hominem and an interesting appeal to ignorance.

    I have expressed no ways that determine I know nothing about how a fetus develops - otherwise you could point it out.
    I have given no indication as to what I know nor experienced with abortion to give the impression I "have no concept" of what it is like to have an abortion.
    I have giveen no indication as to my absolute knowledge as to why someone chooses an abortion. however I have argued against various excuses/reasons as to why someone may have an abortion which suggests that I have some concept of these reasons.
    your opinion remains to be an opinion as well.


    Oh, and by the way, two abortions down and I'll probably have more in my lifetime.
    I never knew anyone could be so please about something quoted as being "horrid" and "horrific".

    There are more important things to worry about rather than bullying women who decide to take their lives into their own hands.
    1. if I have a different opinion than you, it does not mean I bully you.
    2. if the woman wants to control their lives, they should not do this at the expense of another.

    Women always have, and always will have abortions
    that's because the term abortion includes misscariages which is a horrific and sad event. how dare you supply your pride/cause at their expense.
    surgical abortions have not always existed.


    The state should provide services for abortion because otherwise, women are denied basic healthcare rights - basic HUMAN RIGHTS.
    what is the most basic human right? the right to LIFE. this includes all humans. do you deny that?

    Until then, how about you keep your hurtful and bigoted opinions to yourself.
    no proof I am bigoted. if you dare try to provide some evidence on the contrary. I invite you to pm me or post a new thread in the g&g forum to stay on topic.

    my actions defend right to life. shall you deny the right to life to a human?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Care-Free)
    What about a couple who dont have jobs yet?
    a car collision killing your child and wife. that's having a family or your "life" ripped apart. having someone kill your child, that's having your life ripped part. birth is not some condition a condition in which you state "life ripped a part".

    a couple at uni for example...
    I know a couple that had a child at uni. they continued to go and enjoy their blessing. I know a coupe that had a child and were not going to college. they married and now are trying to go to college. I met a woman, late 40's, who managed an international corporation and her family. I met her at college. she was finishing her higher education. A man finished his high school diploma at age 80 - he missed it because of WW2. a grandmother has walked the line, with her granddaughter, to receive her degree. these are not opportunities missed, just changed.

    neither condition merits abortion. it does, however merit the condition of being a family and supporting those in trouble that you know. it supports the need of govt. or non-profit ran organizations that help people in times as you have described. thing is these organizations exist, but have been over looked.

    ...at what point is their life not ruined?
    the point when they are still living and may continue to exist w/o the guilt or hardship of knowing they killed their own child. as you so point out - "abortion process after a certain time is horrendous and down right traumatizing".

    At what point do you think they'd stop resenting this child?
    the point they finally receive the help they deserve and realize their condition is due to their actions, and therefore should not be acted out as a death penalty to their kid. to the point of realizing that the child is not a burden of no joy, but an investment and responsibility that leads to joy. only realized if your ideology of abandonment and resentment is deserted.

    taking responsibility does not mean looking after it at all, it means making the best decision to remedy the problem...
    yes it does, look it up in a dictionary. I got the definition online.

    1.The state or fact of having a duty to deal with something.
    what is the responsibility of a parent? what is their duty? to help their offspring live. to provide luxuries? no provide things? no. to live? absolutely.
    2.The state or fact of being accountable or to blame for something
    the only way to being accountable for a child/human offspring is to take care of it. you don't take care of things by letting them die, nor killing them.

    your livelihood is not your life.
    you think a woman will just get on with her life afterwards?
    NO. I have not said that, so don't put words in my mouth!
    the abortion process after a certain time is horrendous and down right traumatizing, its going to stay with her for the rest of her life, its going to haunt her, she's going to hate herself at times.
    you just stated one of the reasons why I, like so many who have gone through the abortion process, am against abortion. if this thing is so horrendous, then why allow just anyone to buy into it? why not reserve it for the most disastrous and unfortunate conditions, such as - the life of the mother is at risk?

    straight from a planned parenthood web site:
    "Abortion as a Positive Coping Mechanism"

    how can a thing you describe as horrendous be used as a "mechanism" for coping?

    Women who have had one abortion do not suffer adverse psychological effects. In fact, as a group, they have higher self-esteem, greater feelings of worth and capableness, and fewer feelings of failure than do women who have had no abortions or who have had repeat abortions (Russo & Zierk, 1992; Zabin et al., 1989)
    does this not seem backwards to you? you have one abortion, absolutely no effect. you have two, and into the shark tank you go? if something is able to effect you in a negative way the second time, it can do the same the first.

    it is clear that the ones saying there that a woman can just "move one with her life" is not me, nor the pro-life movement (according to the articles/speeches I have read from them), but the pro-abortion facilities and researchers.

    Care homes are already full, why add more unwanted children, children who will grow up knowing they were a mistake, a child who may not ever be adopted, a child who will grow up knowing it was never loved...and who do you think that child will blame? themselves, they'll be miserable, they'll be angry, they'll be insecure...why force a child to live like that
    I have said time and time again. they don't have to live in that manner. I have known boys and girls of many diversities that are not happy. but this does not mean they should die and the possibility of being unhappy does not merit the death penalty.

    also, have you read the post about how much the costs of abortion adds up?


    how is that better than ending the "life" where there's no consciousness, the only person being hurt is the woman.
    you can still exist and enjoy life. some of the happiest people I met are the ones w/o instead of the rich stuck up punks. possibility does not merit death.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Xiomara)
    That's like saying if you don't want to get hit by another driver and die, don't buy a car.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Except that sex exists for the purpose of procreation...
    You don't buy cars in order to get hit by other cars...

    I'm pro-abortion by the way, your analogy comparison is just terrible.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Darkphilosopher)
    Except that sex exists for the purpose of procreation...
    You don't buy cars in order to get hit by other cars...

    I'm pro-abortion by the way, your analogy comparison is just terrible.
    Only no. I'm not referring to why it exists, it's why people do it. People don't always have sex to make babies, people don't always drive cars to get from A to B. That's why Formula One etc. exist, or the concept of a Sunday drive, or why people buy cars to show off etc.

    Your stance is irrelevant to me.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by da_nolo)
    a car collision killing your child and wife. that's having a family or your "life" ripped apart. having someone kill your child, that's having your life ripped part. birth is not some condition a condition in which you state "life ripped a part".

    I know a couple that had a child at uni. they continued to go and enjoy their blessing. I know a coupe that had a child and were not going to college. they married and now are trying to go to college. I met a woman, late 40's, who managed an international corporation and her family. I met her at college. she was finishing her higher education. A man finished his high school diploma at age 80 - he missed it because of WW2. a grandmother has walked the line, with her granddaughter, to receive her degree. these are not opportunities missed, just changed.

    neither condition merits abortion. it does, however merit the condition of being a family and supporting those in trouble that you know. it supports the need of govt. or non-profit ran organizations that help people in times as you have described. thing is these organizations exist, but have been over looked.

    the point when they are still living and may continue to exist w/o the guilt or hardship of knowing they killed their own child. as you so point out - "abortion process after a certain time is horrendous and down right traumatizing".

    the point they finally receive the help they deserve and realize their condition is due to their actions, and therefore should not be acted out as a death penalty to their kid. to the point of realizing that the child is not a burden of no joy, but an investment and responsibility that leads to joy. only realized if your ideology of abandonment and resentment is deserted.

    yes it does, look it up in a dictionary. I got the definition online.

    1.The state or fact of having a duty to deal with something.
    what is the responsibility of a parent? what is their duty? to help their offspring live. to provide luxuries? no provide things? no. to live? absolutely.
    2.The state or fact of being accountable or to blame for something
    the only way to being accountable for a child/human offspring is to take care of it. you don't take care of things by letting them die, nor killing them.

    your livelihood is not your life.
    NO. I have not said that, so don't put words in my mouth!
    you just stated one of the reasons why I, like so many who have gone through the abortion process, am against abortion. if this thing is so horrendous, then why allow just anyone to buy into it? why not reserve it for the most disastrous and unfortunate conditions, such as - the life of the mother is at risk?

    straight from a planned parenthood web site:
    "Abortion as a Positive Coping Mechanism"

    how can a thing you describe as horrendous be used as a "mechanism" for coping?


    does this not seem backwards to you? you have one abortion, absolutely no effect. you have two, and into the shark tank you go? if something is able to effect you in a negative way the second time, it can do the same the first.

    it is clear that the ones saying there that a woman can just "move one with her life" is not me, nor the pro-life movement (according to the articles/speeches I have read from them), but the pro-abortion facilities and researchers.

    I have said time and time again. they don't have to live in that manner. I have known boys and girls of many diversities that are not happy. but this does not mean they should die and the possibility of being unhappy does not merit the death penalty.

    also, have you read the post about how much the costs of abortion adds up?


    you can still exist and enjoy life. some of the happiest people I met are the ones w/o instead of the rich stuck up punks. possibility does not merit death.
    I find it very hard to comprehend the idea of forcing a living, breathing human being into doing something they could hate, something that could wreck their lives, no not all unplanned pregnancies work out like that, some, in fact i'd go as far as to say that most work out and the parents are fine, they're great parents who raise a happy child...but no one should be forced into that. Not for the sake of "saving" a non sentient bunch of cells, with no consciousness, no feelings, no idea of quality of life... My inability to understand that you would suggest something makes this a pretty impossible debate for us to have.
    I will say that if i got pregnant now, i'd abort it, i dream of having children and a family but i dream of being able to support them, love them and care for them, i dream of being financially stable, i dream of having a career, knowing that if something went wrong in my relationship i would be able to support my children on my own, I would not be able to do that now, i wouldnt be able to carry one for 9 months and then give it up a care home where it may never find a loving home, i wouldn't be able to raise it knowing i cant give it what it needs, knowing it'll forever have the "uni drop out" parent with no hope. And if abortions were illegal i would go to any length to get an illegal one, at the risk of my own life because for me personally right now, a child would wreck my life completely and i will never be forced into something like that, i will not be forced into giving birth to a child who wont have the greatest possible standard of life.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by da_nolo)
    It proves that the prior claim, “you should have an abortion or let the kid be not happy or suffer in life (based on being unhappy)”, is a false dilemma.
    It does not have to be that way.


    Let’s go over “happy”. No human is happy all the time. Kids become unhappy by spilling milk, losing a game, and all sorts of reasons. So to say you should kill a human offspring just because they will be unhappy is asinine. You really want to kill over spilled milk?

    now, if someone really wants to complain about the conditions a child may meet. first look at abortion funding.

    in the states, planned parenthood generated 201 million usd. in 2011
    in the u.k. taxpayers spent "£118m on abortions in 2010."

    now, lets say abortion became illegal. all that money could go to making sure that kids for adoption have awesome facilities, great health care, etc. & low income families could receive way more help than they already do.

    there are plenty of groups that help now, but this much money pushed into the system would be like walking on a gold road.
    I know this is going to be a very controversial thing to say, but it isn't JUST about the baby... it's about the parents too, it might make their life worse if they have the child. And yes "then they shouldn't have sex" is a stupid thing to say, Oh, you were in a car accident? Well you shouldn't have driven ever in the first place then.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    I just wonder how many unwanted children pro-lifers will be adopting in the future. Seems hypocritical if they don't. :dontknow:
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.