Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Tbh, I think the only issue is whether the Russians have removed middle fragments in the past 24 hours or evidence to link them to directly to the attack.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ParasiteRex)
    I'm wondering what the USA's endgame is in warmongering like this. One hypothesis is that they're establishing a justification to invade Russia, which would decimate the Russian Armed Forces but more importantly their armaments, a steady stream of which Russia now sends down to Syria to support the Assad government, which the Zionist Neocons determining US foreign policy want to end because Israel considers a local state that's also stable and secular a threat.
    LOL, what have you been inhaling? you really think the US will even entertain the idea?! :rolleyes:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    What difference is that going to make?

    All they will do is confirm the theory of a middle attack
    Wouldn't the weapon have been supplied by Russia? He was pretty intent on blaming Kiev this morning.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC)
    Wouldn't the weapon have been supplied by Russia? He was pretty intent on blaming Kiev this morning.
    It was reported that they captured one from a Ukrainian air base last week http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=31f_1405616881
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I can't understand how Putin can say it's Ukraine's fault? If it's pro-Russian separatists supported by Moscow, then they are responsible, both the separatists and Moscow, and they should be brought to justice. Not Ukraine. How on earth did the rebels get the technology if not Moscow? Personally I'd favour NATO airstrikes on the rebels, talking and all this diplomatic nonsense just gets nowhere. You're not Russian, your Ukrainian. Doesn't matter if you were once Russian. Time for the NATO to show some leadership, bring those responsible to justice. Doesn't matter what Russia thinks, just take revenge. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Stop being scared of a war with Russia, it's a lesser evil than allowing acts like this to continue. We in the West will control how world events are going to play out, not anybody else. A war with separatists/Russia is one the West could win.

    Heart goes out to the families of the victims and the victims, so sad.
    He hasn't actually directly blamed Ukraine for shooting the plane down; he's just blamed Ukraine for creating all the violence and tension that lead to the plane being shot down. He also hasn't denied that pro-Russian rebels shot it down so it's almost an admission of guilt. This whole situation is an utter sh*tstorm so we'll just have to wait as more information comes to light before we can properly start pointing fingers.. but my money's on the seperatists.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC)
    Wouldn't the weapon have been supplied by Russia? He was pretty intent on blaming Kiev this morning.
    Well, either supplied by Russia or taken from the supplies captured by the rebels.

    My guess is that it was supplied but the Russians to counteract the recent Ukrainian bombings.

    Well, he has to blame Ukraine. I doubt he has any other option at this point.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I can't understand how Putin can say it's Ukraine's fault? If it's pro-Russian separatists supported by Moscow, then they are responsible, both the separatists and Moscow, and they should be brought to justice. Not Ukraine. How on earth did the rebels get the technology if not Moscow? Personally I'd favour NATO airstrikes on the rebels, talking and all this diplomatic nonsense just gets nowhere. You're not Russian, your Ukrainian. Doesn't matter if you were once Russian. Time for the NATO to show some leadership, bring those responsible to justice. Doesn't matter what Russia thinks, just take revenge. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Stop being scared of a war with Russia, it's a lesser evil than allowing acts like this to continue. We in the West will control how world events are going to play out, not anybody else. A war with separatists/Russia is one the West could win.

    Heart goes out to the families of the victims and the victims, so sad.
    Russia's line since the war in east Ukraine started basically is "it's Ukraine fault the armed separatist's started fighting to join Russia, It's Ukraine fault it continues, it's Ukraine fault they have weapons, it's Ukraine fault the plane was shot down as they should of surrendered their weapons to the separatist's".

    But as someone mentioned earlier in the thread.... it's a slightly different outlook when it comes to their own current uprising in Russia isn't it?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, either supplied by Russia or taken from the supplies captured by the rebels.

    My guess is that it was supplied but the Russians to counteract the recent Ukrainian bombings.

    Well, he has to blame Ukraine. I doubt he has any other option at this point.
    I can't find the twitter pics (because they took the tweet down) but the seperatists recently posted a picture, taunting the Ukrainian forces, of a BUK missile launcher they had taken from a Ukrainian airport. So my money's on the seperatists having taken the weapon opposed to the Russian's giving it to them. http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Russia's line since the war in east Ukraine started basically is "it's Ukraine fault the armed separatist's started fighting to join Russia, It's Ukraine fault it continues, it's Ukraine fault they have weapons, it's Ukraine fault the plane was shot down as they should of surrendered their weapons to the separatist's".

    But as someone mentioned earlier in the thread.... it's a slightly different outlook when it comes to their own current uprising in Russia isn't it?
    But the same argument can be made for almost every conflict of the type on the planet throughout history, and who the good guys are is dependent on who you're friends with, except for the rational thinkers to which everybody is simultaneously friend and foe, and all but the first part of the statement applies to ALL wars.
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    There are reports (newspapers and unconfirmed videos) of a BUK TELAR being loaded onto a flatbed transporter and driven towards the Russian border. Interestingly, the TELAR is missing a missile.

    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Petrue)
    I can't find the twitter pics (because they took the tweet down) but the seperatists recently posted a picture, taunting the Ukrainian forces, of a BUK missile launcher they had taken from a Ukrainian airport. So my money's on the seperatists having taken the weapon opposed to the Russian's giving it to them. http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Cheers
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I can't understand how Putin can say it's Ukraine's fault? If it's pro-Russian separatists supported by Moscow, then they are responsible, both the separatists and Moscow, and they should be brought to justice. Not Ukraine. How on earth did the rebels get the technology if not Moscow? Personally I'd favour NATO airstrikes on the rebels, talking and all this diplomatic nonsense just gets nowhere. You're not Russian, your Ukrainian. Doesn't matter if you were once Russian. Time for the NATO to show some leadership, bring those responsible to justice. Doesn't matter what Russia thinks, just take revenge. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Stop being scared of a war with Russia, it's a lesser evil than allowing acts like this to continue. We in the West will control how world events are going to play out, not anybody else. A war with separatists/Russia is one the West could win.

    Heart goes out to the families of the victims and the victims, so sad.
    You probably have no idea what garbage you're saying. If you have, I feel pity for you.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    So, to sum up, it appears (unconfirmed but various sources reporting it) that the rebels stole a buk launcher from the Ukrainians and then used it on what the thought was an ilyushin troop transport but was actually MH17. Was always the most likely explanation.

    The real question is what happens next?


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by LightBlueSoldier)
    So, to sum up, it appears (unconfirmed but various sources reporting it) that the rebels stole a buk launcher from the Ukrainians and then used it on what the thought was an ilyushin troop transport but was actually MH17. Was always the most likely explanation.
    It looks like that. But afaik they thought it was Antonov, not Ilyuishin.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by LightBlueSoldier)
    So, to sum up, it appears (unconfirmed but various sources reporting it) that the rebels stole a buk launcher from the Ukrainians and then used it on what the thought was an ilyushin troop transport but was actually MH17. Was always the most likely explanation.

    The real question is what happens next?


    Posted from TSR Mobile


    Thank you for putting this thread back on track.

    I don't know what's going to happen next because we don't know who is 100% culpable of the attack. If the pro-Russians are indeed the culprits I suppose they'll get hefty sanctions.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Monsieur Gamma)
    Thank you for putting this thread back on track.

    I don't know what's going to happen next because we don't know who is 100% culpable of the attack. If the pro-Russians are indeed the culprits I suppose they'll get hefty sanctions.
    But how are they going to be sanctioned? Surely they're already being sanctioned to the maximal extent. Much more likely, people will pin the blame on Russia [again] and penalise them instead.
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I can't understand how Putin can say it's Ukraine's fault? If it's pro-Russian separatists supported by Moscow, then they are responsible, both the separatists and Moscow, and they should be brought to justice. Not Ukraine. How on earth did the rebels get the technology if not Moscow? Personally I'd favour NATO airstrikes on the rebels, talking and all this diplomatic nonsense just gets nowhere. You're not Russian, your Ukrainian. Doesn't matter if you were once Russian. Time for the NATO to show some leadership, bring those responsible to justice. Doesn't matter what Russia thinks, just take revenge. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Stop being scared of a war with Russia, it's a lesser evil than allowing acts like this to continue. We in the West will control how world events are going to play out, not anybody else. A war with separatists/Russia is one the West could win.

    Heart goes out to the families of the victims and the victims, so sad.
    Crikey. There will not be a war with Russia - why put millions more peoples lives on the line?

    Whoever fired the missile will lose a lot of friends and any moral high ground they may have held, but at this stage, we can only speculate. There are far too many questions with no answers and the fog of war only serves to compound the problem.

    Do not forget, both the west and the ex-soviet bloc are masters of cold war politics and through all of that, war has been avoided for the last 70+ years and it certainly is not about to start in Ukraine on the doorstep with Russia.

    This will end with either stiffer sanctions against Russia and an emboldened/belligerent Russia stepping up support for the rebels. But no war between Russia and the west.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    But how are they going to be sanctioned? Surely they're already being sanctioned to the maximal extent. Much more likely, people will pin the blame on Russia [again] and penalise them instead.
    I know. I think Russia are trying to outwit America ... When investigators link the missiles to pro-Russian troops, Russia will be indirectly to blame and therefore will receive minor sanctions in comparison.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Monsieur Gamma)
    I know. I think Russia are trying to outwit America ... When investigators link the missiles to pro-Russian troops, Russia will be indirectly to blame and therefore will receive minor sanctions in comparison.
    Has anybody even proven that the Russians are helping the pro Russian separatists yet, or is everybody still just finger pointing?
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.