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My favourite pro veganism quotation! watch

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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Outspoken feminist who has spent a lot of time at looking at inequality of the 'disabled', trans and gender queer, non-hetero parts of our society, in close contact with a Syrian who I have attempted but failed to get here. Outspoken against our and the US's drone interventions and our presence in Afghanistan and Iraq. Obviously strongly against FGM (and the less serious MGM). Poverty again, yes I'm obviously against, though if we're talking about third world countries that has strong links into veganism.
    Good, I am glad to hear.

    MGM is not 'less serious' than FGM, it's less prevalent. I watched a video of a boy have his foreskin removed with what I think was a hot blade as part of a ritual to 'become a man'.
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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    Debate or don't. Don't quote me and waste my time with juvenile sarcasm.
    How can I debate with empty rhetoric? You're the one who brought it down to juvenile sarcasm, not me.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Good, I am glad to hear.

    MGM is not 'less serious' than FGM, it's less prevalent. I watched a video of a boy have his foreskin removed with what I think was a hot blade as part of a ritual to 'become a man'.
    The lasting effects on a male who has gone through MGM are not to the same level as a female who has gone through FGM.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    How can I debate with empty rhetoric? You're the one who brought it down to juvenile sarcasm, not me.
    Quote me my sarcasm? I haven't been intentionally sarcastic anywhere in my responses to you.

    You're avoiding debate because you have nothing to offer in light of what I've said.
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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    Quote me my sarcasm? I haven't been intentionally sarcastic anywhere in my responses to you.

    You're avoiding debate because you have nothing to offer in light of what I've said.
    You said morality comes from emotion, not ingellience. I'm unsure how to take that if it's not sarcasm, because morality is a conceptual frame work. You either don't understand morality, don't understand emotion, or don't understand either.
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    Surely people should try both lifestyles before criticizing the other?
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    The lasting effects on a male who has gone through MGM are not to the same level as a female who has gone through FGM.
    That's primarily because of the crudeness of FGM, it's not performed by a medical professional. MGM that's performed in a similar way can be just as devestating. I wasn't talking about circumcision performed by a doctor.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    That's primarily because of the crudeness of FGM, it's not performed by a medical professional. MGM that's performed in a similar way can be just as devestating. I wasn't talking about circumcision performed by a doctor.
    The whole purpose of FGM is to remove pleasure from sexual contact.

    MGM doesn't have that purpose. Yes pleasure is arguably reduced, but not compeltely removed.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    You said morality comes from emotion, not ingellience. I'm unsure how to take that if it's not sarcasm, because morality is a conceptual frame work. You either don't understand morality, don't understand emotion, or don't understand either.
    It's ultimately based in emotion. Morality = virtue = goodness. We decide on 'good' and 'bad' depending on how things make us feel. You can make up different ethical systems and theories and write essays on them but ultimately, they boil down to human feelings. How does murder make you feel? Happy? Probably not. Repulsed? More likely. So we file that under 'bad'/'immoral' and most of us don't do it. But why is that feeling authoritative? Why is it more authoritative than someone who responds with 'happy' to the same question?

    That's what I'm getting at. I'm not being sarcastic.
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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    It's ultimately based in emotion. Morality = virtue = goodness. We decide on 'good' and 'bad' depending on how things make us feel. You can make up different ethical systems and theories and write essays on them but ultimately, they boil down to human feelings. How does murder make you feel? Happy? Probably not. Repulsed? More likely. So we file that under 'bad'/'immoral' and most of us don't do it. But why is that feeling authoritative? Why is it more authoritative than someone who responds with 'happy' to the same question?

    That's what I'm getting at. I'm not being sarcastic.
    What you're describing is emotivism.
    It isn't a theory that, to my knowledge, is still taken seriously by any moral philosopher. You might want to look into it to understand it further.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    The whole purpose of FGM is to remove pleasure from sexual contact.

    MGM doesn't have that purpose. Yes pleasure is arguably reduced, but not compeltely removed.
    No, that's not entirely true. There is many reasons why FGM occurs. That's just one of them.

    http://www.forwarduk.org.uk/wp-conte...d_-FGM-FAQ.pdf


    Also, many circumcised males report enhanced sexual pleasure from having the skin removed. I dunno.
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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    Because you can't save someone else if you're dead.
    That's not a reason for valuing your own life above the lives of others, though. You're not claiming that there's anything special about your life here, you're essentially saying that all lives matter equally and, in recognition of this fact, saving someone else's life is a reason to keep yourself alive.

    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    Individuals desire to survive due to their biology. What is the relevance of defending that fact logically? It's a biological fact that biological organisms strive to survive. We are a bag of cells. Cells don't have moral reasoning for wishing to function and survive - they just do.
    You talk about survival, but I was referring to interests, or preferences. Humans have been known to sacrifice their own lives for others, so it's simply not a biological fact that biological organisms strive to survive, at least not in all cases.

    Indeed, as beings who are capable of engaging in higher reasoning, we can reflect on whether our interests matter more than those of others, and alter our behaviour accordingly.

    The simple fact is that there is no logical justification for putting one's own interests above those of others: the good of any one individual is of no more importance than the good of any other.

    It is a biological fact, however, that sentient beings aim to maximise their preference-satisfaction. This is impossible not to do - if we wanted not to satisfy our preferences, that would itself be a preference.

    The aim of satisfying our preferences cannot be logically justified: it simply is a fact. But, from this fact, we can deduce, as I demonstrated earlier, an objective moral framework. Essentially, the fact that all sentient beings aim to satisfy their preferences is an axiom from which we can deduce objective moral truths, namely that we should maximise the preference-satisfaction of every sentient being. This is why meat-eating is objectively wrong: it frustrates the preferences of tens of billions of sentient beings every year.
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    What disease? Veganism isn't a disease. It merely rejects the need for animal products in food. It is therefore one of the least harmful lifestyles going.

    So someone with depression should be murdered then? Given that it is a sickness of the mind and should be put down, according to your logic.

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    Yes! Natural selection must prevail if we are to progress as a species for the future
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    (Original post by Evening)
    Yes! Natural selection must prevail if we are to progress as a species for the future
    No. That is called eugenics. Have you ever heard of the Nazis? No? Well let me tell you what they did.

    They decided that some people weren't worth as much as other people. They decided that these people must die. They killed millions of people in persuit of the "master race"

    They killed Jews, gypsies, gay people, disabled people, trade unionists and anyone else they decided that they didn't like. This was called the Holocaust.

    Now I'll let you in on a secret. The master race does not exist. There is no group of people who are better than the rest of us. Anyway, how do you know that vegans aren't the next step on the evolutionary ladder?
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    No. That is called eugenics. Have you ever heard of the Nazis? No? Well let me tell you what they did.

    They decided that some people weren't worth as much as other people. They decided that these people must die. They killed millions of people in persuit of the "master race"

    They killed Jews, gypsies, gay people, disabled people, trade unionists and anyone else they decided that they didn't like. This was called the Holocaust.

    Now I'll let you in on a secret. The master race does not exist. There is no group of people who are better than the rest of us. Anyway, how do you know that vegans aren't the next step on the evolutionary ladder?
    You ask the question ''how do you know that vegans aren't the next step on the evolutionary ladder?'' May I ask, how you assert ''The master race does not exist.''?
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    (Original post by zetamcfc)
    You ask the question ''how do you know that vegans aren't the next step on the evolutionary ladder?'' May I ask, how you assert ''The master race does not exist.''?
    ATFQ

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    Ok so the question is ''how do you know that vegans aren't the next step on the evolutionary ladder?'', Answer, nobody (at this time) can know, so it is an irrelevant question. There you go.
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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    It's ultimately based in emotion. Morality = virtue = goodness. We decide on 'good' and 'bad' depending on how things make us feel. You can make up different ethical systems and theories and write essays on them but ultimately, they boil down to human feelings. How does murder make you feel? Happy? Probably not. Repulsed? More likely. So we file that under 'bad'/'immoral' and most of us don't do it. But why is that feeling authoritative? Why is it more authoritative than someone who responds with 'happy' to the same question?

    That's what I'm getting at. I'm not being sarcastic.
    I believe that people who eat meat have a lower moral standard than vegetarians who in turn have a lower moral standard than vegans. I mean how anyone can honestly think eating meat is morally acceptable baffles me. Please can you explain to me how killing a sentient being against their will when we don't need to do so for us to survive is morally acceptable. Thank you.
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    Are you a vegan?
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    (Original post by Evening)
    Yes! Natural selection must prevail if we are to progress as a species for the future
    So you think people with depression should be killed as part of natural selection? You don't even believe that they should be given the chance to recover from their illness? As a person recovering from depression I don't agree with this. But i guess I shouldn't expect anything less from a meat eater. They have extraordinarily shown themselves to lack compassion on this thread.
 
 
 
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