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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    People like you are part of the problem. Enough brains to scrape a post together but not enough to analyse simple concepts.

    Let's say you are a cop, you pull over a car because the brake light is out. You ask the driver (who happens to be black) to get out of the vehicle and he is visibly angry, refuses to cooperate and attacks you while making a lunge at your weapon. The man is a lot bigger than you so you fire and he dies. This is an example of a justified killing. He isn't being killed because he is black, he is being killed because he poses an immediate threat regardless of the colour of his skin.

    So again, is your argument that the stats are false? Or that black people's lives matter more than white people?
    Ill break it down for you given that you dont seem to be even reading my posts rather just parroting that people think black lives matter more than whitr people
    1. A lot of false evidence is given in courts and the jury is biased from the start.
    2. Even if the suspect or whatever is being resistant that doesnt give someone the right to kill them. Here in the uk regular cops dont carry guns, hence a lot less people are killed.
    3. I believe there is a problem of being brutal and trigger happy that comes from within the set up of the police force, not just a few bad cops.
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    Ill break it down for you given that you dont seem to be even reading my posts rather just parroting that people think black lives matter more than whitr people
    1. A lot of false evidence is given in courts and the jury is biased from the start.
    2. Even if the suspect or whatever is being resistant that doesnt give someone the right to kill them. Here in the uk regular cops dont carry guns, hence a lot less people are killed.
    3. I believe there is a problem of being brutal and trigger happy that comes from within the set up of the police force, not just a few bad cops.
    Your argument is basically:
    1. The evidence doesn't support my agenda so it is lies.
    2. Let's just rephrase what is said - if someone tries to steal a police officers gun that is an action that if successful can kill the police officer, do police officers not have a right to defend their lives?
    3. Another claim do you have any actual proof of?
    Your claims seem to have no basis in fact and just based on emotion which isn't valid in a debate.
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    I think there is a big issue involving the mentality of cops and the police training courses themselves being poor, telling cops 'it's most important to protect your own life at all costs - shoot first and ask questions later'. This obviously leads to cops being more likely to shoot (and thus maybe accidentally or purposely kill) someone.

    I think it's undeniable that there is at the very least, subconscious racism running through the police force in America. This is seen when cops are more likely to give a white person the benefit of the doubt when pulling them over for speeding, and in making arrests for marijuana posession (whites and blacks both use it at similar rates, but black people are arrested more often). It is also evident in more extreme examples, for example, the Oregon building takeover by a bunch of white men - they were there for something like 3 weeks and were allowed food deliveries while they staked out in the building. Meanwhile, Tamir Rice - a 12 year old boy - gets shot in 2 seconds flat, no questions asked.

    So in conclusion, I support black lives matter because I feel their cause is relevant currently. Of course, ALL lives matter, and just because I support black lives doesn't mean I want white people to go through this injustice. It's like saying women's voting rights supporters want to take away men's right to vote.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Your argument is basically:
    1. The evidence doesn't support my agenda so it is lies.
    2. Let's just rephrase what is said - if someone tries to steal a police officers gun that is an action that if successful can kill the police officer, do police officers not have a right to defend their lives?
    3. Another claim do you have any actual proof of?
    Your claims seem to have no basis in fact and just based on emotion which isn't valid in a debate.
    1.false evidence being given in court to support the agendas of the police and the governement, would definitely not be a first. Also what agenda do you think i have exactly. Im not even in america.
    2.Once again i will refer to the british police, they do not carry guns, whilst they are.far from perfect, we do have less fatalities due to them, and its not like theyre constantly being shot dead because they cant "defend themselves" by killing someone.
    2. Yes thats why i said "i believe" i will remind you that tsr is not a courtroom.
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    (Original post by liam12345677)
    I think there is a big issue involving the mentality of cops and the police training courses themselves being poor, telling cops 'it's most important to protect your own life at all costs - shoot first and ask questions later'. This obviously leads to cops being more likely to shoot (and thus maybe accidentally or purposely kill) someone.

    I think it's undeniable that there is at the very least, subconscious racism running through the police force in America. This is seen when cops are more likely to give a white person the benefit of the doubt when pulling them over for speeding, and in making arrests for marijuana posession (whites and blacks both use it at similar rates, but black people are arrested more often). It is also evident in more extreme examples, for example, the Oregon building takeover by a bunch of white men - they were there for something like 3 weeks and were allowed food deliveries while they staked out in the building. Meanwhile, Tamir Rice - a 12 year old boy - gets shot in 2 seconds flat, no questions asked.

    So in conclusion, I support black lives matter because I feel their cause is relevant currently. Of course, ALL lives matter, and just because I support black lives doesn't mean I want white people to go through this injustice. It's like saying women's voting rights supporters want to take away men's right to vote.
    Conveniently left out that the oregon situation was peaceful and there was a unarmed white person shot and in blm protests a lot arent peaceful and no one is shot
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    Ill break it down for you given that you dont seem to be even reading my posts rather just parroting that people think black lives matter more than whitr people
    1. A lot of false evidence is given in courts and the jury is biased from the start.
    2. Even if the suspect or whatever is being resistant that doesnt give someone the right to kill them. Here in the uk regular cops dont carry guns, hence a lot less people are killed.
    3. I believe there is a problem of being brutal and trigger happy that comes from within the set up of the police force, not just a few bad cops.
    1. What evidence do you have to support this claim?
    2. If someone goes for your gun you shoot them or risk dying yourself. Police in UK don't need guns because the general population is unarmed and gun crime is low. In the US if you haven't noticed, gun control is a big problem and many citizens carry.
    3. Does this nugget of knowledge come from your years of experience in the Police force for you to be able to make this judgement better than them?


    (Original post by liam12345677)
    I think there is a big issue involving the mentality of cops and the police training courses themselves being poor, telling cops 'it's most important to protect your own life at all costs - shoot first and ask questions later'. This obviously leads to cops being more likely to shoot (and thus maybe accidentally or purposely kill) someone.

    I think it's undeniable that there is at the very least, subconscious racism running through the police force in America. This is seen when cops are more likely to give a white person the benefit of the doubt when pulling them over for speeding, and in making arrests for marijuana posession (whites and blacks both use it at similar rates, but black people are arrested more often). It is also evident in more extreme examples, for example, the Oregon building takeover by a bunch of white men - they were there for something like 3 weeks and were allowed food deliveries while they staked out in the building. Meanwhile, Tamir Rice - a 12 year old boy - gets shot in 2 seconds flat, no questions asked.

    So in conclusion, I support black lives matter because I feel their cause is relevant currently. Of course, ALL lives matter, and just because I support black lives doesn't mean I want white people to go through this injustice. It's like saying women's voting rights supporters want to take away men's right to vote.
    How would you feel if you were told that to be a cop you are not allowed to defend yourself against attackers? You probably wouldn't want to be one and wouldn't feel it is fair treatment. Put yourself in their shoes.

    Is it racism that black men speed more?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/21/ny...pagewanted=all

    Is it racism that they kill more?
    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ender_2013.xls

    If your answer is no then why is it racism if black men are pulled over more? Whites and blacks may come into contact with marijuana more frequently but considering the difference in employment rate can you not see the likelihood that it is because the black men are dealing it more often than the white men which has a heavier sentence?

    Your comparison with women's rights makes more sense because men at the time when feminism was relevant had more rights than women. But imagine men had less rights than women but you advocated for women's rights and stayed silent on men's rights. That is tantamount to your position on BLM.
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    1.false evidence being given in court to support the agendas of the police and the governement, would definitely not be a first. Also what agenda do you think i have exactly. Im not even in america.
    2.Once again i will refer to the british police, they do not carry guns, whilst they are.far from perfect, we do have less fatalities due to them, and its not like theyre constantly being shot dead because they cant "defend themselves" by killing someone.
    2. Yes thats why i said "i believe" i will remind you that tsr is not a courtroom.
    1. Prove it is false if you are so certain it is happening it should be easy
    2. We dont have a society were guns are as common they are common in the usa, your suggestion is like giving someone a knofe in a gun fight.
    3. Beliefs do not matter in this discussion without proof, this may not be a courtroom but it doesnt mean that evidence to back up your point is needed
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    1. Prove it is false if you are so certain it is happening it should be easy
    2. We dont have a society were guns are as common they are common in the usa, your suggestion is like giving someone a knofe in a gun fight.
    3. Beliefs do not matter in this discussion without proof, this may not be a courtroom but it doesnt mean that evidence to back up your point is needed
    (Original post by Jebedee)
    1. What evidence do you have to support this claim?
    2. If someone goes for your gun you shoot them or risk dying yourself. Police in UK don't need guns because the general population is unarmed and gun crime is low. In the US if you haven't noticed, gun control is a big problem and many citizens carry.
    3. Does this nugget of knowledge come from your years of experience in the Police force for you to be able to make this judgement better than them?




    How would you feel if you were told that to be a cop you are not allowed to defend yourself against attackers? You probably wouldn't want to be one and wouldn't feel it is fair treatment. Put yourself in their shoes.

    Is it racism that black men speed more?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/21/ny...pagewanted=all

    Is it racism that they kill more?
    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ender_2013.xls

    If your answer is no then why is it racism if black men are pulled over more? Whites and blacks may come into contact with marijuana more frequently but considering the difference in employment rate can you not see the likelihood that it is because the black men are dealing it more often than the white men which has a heavier sentence?

    Your comparison with women's rights makes more sense because men at the time when feminism was relevant had more rights than women. But imagine men had less rights than women but you advocated for women's rights and stayed silent on men's rights. That is tantamount to your position on BLM.
    For gods sake i cannot believe that in this day and age it is a controversial thing to say the police shouldnt kill people. Throughout history the police have been on the side of corrupt governements who will do anything to secure their power including threatening cops to give falss evidence and inventing witness accounts. For the record i have always advocated for gun control in america i never said the police force was the only thing that needed reform. Im 100% done listening to people trying to justify murder have a great time believing there is nothing wrong whatsoever with a police force that killed 115 people in march. Google it if you want.
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    For gods sake i cannot believe that in this day and age it is a controversial thing to say the police shouldnt kill people. Throughout history the police have been on the side of corrupt governements who will do anything to secure their power including threatening cops to give falss evidence and inventing witness accounts. For the record i have always advocated for gun control in america i never said the police force was the only thing that needed reform. Im 100% done listening to people trying to justify murder have a great time believing there is nothing wrong whatsoever with a police force that killed 115 people in march. Google it if you want.
    From what I can see it is 90 which is still a lot but for it to be considered murder you have to look closer at the situation.

    Are you saying that the police should never shoot anyone?
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    Yes.
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    From what I can see it is 90 which is still a lot but for it to be considered murder you have to look closer at the situation.

    Are you saying that the police should never shoot anyone?
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    Yes.
    So you would do what? Take away all cops guns? What exactly are they meant to do then to subdue an armed criminal?
    Police may be fine and dandy in the UK but a cop without a gun in the US won't be able to provide safety for anyone, they'd just get laughed at and then killed.

    I sure don't want to live in this bizarre and dangerous world you are conjuring where everyone is armed except the police. Sounds like that utopian SJW mindset where girls go out and get smashed before walking home alone...but its okay right? Because if they get raped its the rapist's fault so why bother taking precautions right?

    Burgling is wrong and criminals get punished. But you still lock your door when you go out, no?
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    So you would do what? Take away all cops guns? What exactly are they meant to do then to subdue an armed criminal?
    Police may be fine and dandy in the UK but a cop without a gun in the US won't be able to provide safety for anyone, they'd just get laughed at and then killed.

    I sure don't want to live in this bizarre and dangerous world you are conjuring where everyone is armed except the police. Sounds like that utopian SJW mindset where girls go out and get smashed before walking home alone...but its okay right? Because if they get raped its the rapist's fault so why bother taking precautions right?

    Burgling is wrong and criminals get punished. But you still lock your door when you go out, no?
    You seem not to be listening - im pro gun control. In my " utopian sjw mindset " no one has any guns. Boys go out and get smashed and walk home all the time why shouldnt girls ? Thats like saying we shouldnt have any public gatherings like concerts or plane rides because its precautions against terrorists. Also im not sure what that has to do with police brutality.
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    You seem not to be listening - im pro gun control. In my " utopian sjw mindset " no one has any guns. Boys go out and get smashed and walk home all the time why shouldnt girls ? Thats like saying we shouldnt have any public gatherings like concerts or plane rides because its precautions against terrorists. Also im not sure what that has to do with police brutality.
    Standard SJW response for when someone disagrees. Accuse them of not listening or understanding.

    Yes no one should have guns but whether you like it or not people have them, so what are you going to do about it? Be prepared for it or just pretend they don't because you think they shouldn't?

    I was using it as an example, boys walk home all the time but they're unlikely to be raped while girls are. (even though I do know a guy who was raped in an alleyway at night, that is more or less a one off).
    So do you think it is smart for a girl to walk home alone? I agree she should be able to but rapists exist regardless, so again should women be prepared or take precautions or take your advice and pretend they don't exist and see what happens?

    You must live an extremely privileged life to have no understanding of the evils in this world. It must be nice but don't embarrass yourself by trying to tell people how to conduct themselves in the real world when it seems like your only contact with it is when the Bentley breaks down while picking you up from Eton.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Standard SJW response for when someone disagrees. Accuse them of not listening or understanding.

    Yes no one should have guns but whether you like it or not people have them, so what are you going to do about it? Be prepared for it or just pretend they don't because you think they shouldn't?

    I was using it as an example, boys walk home all the time but they're unlikely to be raped while girls are. (even though I do know a guy who was raped in an alleyway at night, that is more or less a one off).
    So do you think it is smart for a girl to walk home alone? I agree she should be able to but rapists exist regardless, so again should women be prepared or take precautions or take your advice and pretend they don't exist and see what happens?

    You must live an extremely privileged life to have no understanding of the evils in this world. It must be nice but don't embarrass yourself by trying to tell people how to conduct themselves in the real world when it seems like your only contact with it is when the Bentley breaks down while picking you up from Eton.
    Dont you even dare tell me im priviledged. You have no f*cking clue who i am. My whole life ive been poor, constantly struggling to make ends meet, i havent been on a holiday since i was about 13 (im 18 now), i was constantly unable to go out with my friends when i was younger because i cant afford the petrol to be driven there (i live in the countryside).
    No one says everyone should take 0 precautions people talk about trying to change how sexist rhe world is so girls can walk home safely at night if they want to.
    Your argument seemz to be crumbling here : you say that the british police dont need guns like in america because we have tighter gun control than america now youre saying even if they had better gun control laws the police still need guns.
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    Yes.
    So you are happy to sacrifice lives, based on what you have said the police would have been outside the bataclan thinking if only we had guns we could go in and possibly save lives.
    If someone decided to rob a bank with a gun then what are the police going to do wait outside and pray they don't shoot anyone?
    And of course whenever someone shoots at a police officer they have to just hope they don't get hit instead of having the ability to defend themselves.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    So you are happy to sacrifice lives, based on what you have said the police would have been outside the bataclan thinking if only we had guns we could go in and possibly save lives.
    If someone decided to rob a bank with a gun then what are the police going to do wait outside and pray they don't shoot anyone?
    And of course whenever someone shoots at a police officer they have to just hope they don't get hit instead of having the ability to defend themselves.
    Yes
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    Dont you even dare tell me im priviledged. You have no f*cking clue who i am. My whole life ive been poor, constantly struggling to make ends meet, i havent been on a holiday since i was about 13 (im 18 now), i was constantly unable to go out with my friends when i was younger because i cant afford the petrol to be driven there (i live in the countryside).
    No one says everyone should take 0 precautions people talk about trying to change how sexist rhe world is so girls can walk home safely at night if they want to.
    Your argument seemz to be crumbling here : you say that the british police dont need guns like in america because we have tighter gun control than america now youre saying even if they had better gun control laws the police still need guns.
    Sounds like an over average upbringing if you ask me. No petrol to put in your brand new Land Rover parked outside your rustic aesthetic cottage. Savage!

    You are saying people should not take precautions.
    The gun control issue is different and not as simple as you're making out. Guns have always been illegal in UK but if you were to make them illegal in US tomorrow, it won't change the fact that so many still have guns anyway and you would only be disarming the people who needs them, like the cops. There's already too many guns in society for you to put a blanket rule over UK and US. They're different situations.

    Since you have so much to offer the world with your wealth of knowledge of pacifist policing. When are you applying? I take it you will be attending terrorist attacks armed only with your trusty baton.
    You might be willing to throw other men under the bus so you can virtue signal to everyone on here but you're just showing you don't give a flying f*ck about others, you just want to sound like a nice person even if you're being incredibly dumb and spreading dangerous ideas.
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    f*ck off im not arguing about my upbringing with you, im very poor always have been take it or leave you d*ckhead. Why bring my personal life into it?
    How many times do i need to say this its not about "throwing other men under the bus" its about having reforms within the police force. It was never about saying the individuals are all bad people im just saying that something needs to be done when lots of people are being killed.
    If only your faux morality spilled over into the way you conduct yourself during a debate you might be ok to talk to. "Something needs to be done", thanks for the non-answer. We are discussing practical things here and statements like that are worthless. Clearly you want to reform the police by taking away their power. Perhaps you should take a look at some parts of Africa where rebels have more power than the government and see how fun that situation is there. If you think that can't happen in the western world by dismantling our enforcement then you are in a dream world. Then again we've already established that haven't we.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    If only your faux morality spilled over into the way you conduct yourself during a debate you might be ok to talk to. "Something needs to be done", thanks for the non-answer. We are discussing practical things here and statements like that are worthless. Clearly you want to reform the police by taking away their power. Perhaps you should take a look at some parts of Africa where rebels have more power than the government and see how fun that situation is there. If you think that can't happen in the western world by dismantling our enforcement then you are in a dream world. Then again we've already established that haven't we.
    We arent discussing practical things actually, before you pitched in with your nonsensical justifications of killing black people and trying to soung like a working class rebel fighting against the priviledged of the land, when youre actually exercising your white priviledge (assuming you are white), i was havimg a conversation about whether or not it is fair to say that all this killoing black people is a problem of the police force not just a few " bad eggs"
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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    We arent discussing practical things actually, before you pitched in with your nonsensical justifications of killing black people and trying to soung like a working class rebel fighting against the priviledged of the land, when youre actually exercising your white priviledge (assuming you are white), i was havimg a conversation about whether or not it is fair to say that all this killoing black people is a problem of the police force not just a few " bad eggs"
    By nonsensical justifications do you mean research? The fact is that whites are gunned down more so if you want to address black lives you MUST address white lives too or you are a racist. End of.
 
 
 
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