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    (Original post by jneill)
    Are not in EU.
    Tell me, what was Euromaidan?
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    (Original post by jneill)
    The rise of nationalism post-Tito was the factor there. Fanatic nationalism is never a good thing... is it?
    the EU is just going to promote that same kind of nationalism though, at this rate. if you have eastern european free-flow immigration, then there is obviously going to be a reaction based on nationalism contra-internationalism. this is why you shouldn't have free movement from western to eastern europe, not because of culture, but because of general demographic conflicts for things like jobs, living space and so on. the EU, therefore, isn't going to promote stability - it will and is promoting instability. to suggest that the EU, today, is promoting good relations with the eastern european states within the EU is nuts. do you really think that this huge influx of romanians and (especially) poles is really going to make the UK more sympathetic to the concerns of these nations? why? and when sweden and germany are allowing *millions* of middle eastern economic migrants, with them now having the potential to get EU passports in mere years, how on earth is this going to make us more friendly towards germany and sweden when it is going to mean that we are going to get *more* mass migration, but from even worse cultures in this case? the EU is nothing but a tug of war between (now) very different countries.

    only free trade and independence (democracy) can secure stability because it gives nations incentives to co-operate internationally. the EU promotes neither when you think about it. it is merely going to promote struggles between nations. both economic and social.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Tell me, what was Euromaidan?
    Go on enlighten the thread - you know you want to.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Go on enlighten the thread - you know you want to.
    Euromaidan was a wave of demonstrations and civil unrest in Ukraine, which began on the night of 21 November 2013 with public protests in Maidan Nezalezhnosti ("Independence Square") in Kiev, demanding closer European integration.

    The EU tried to plant its flag in another sovereign nation, causing it to become destabilised and ultimately have a portion of it annexed by Russia.

    How much it contributes to peace.

    http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...ilised_ukraine
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-Ukraine.html
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...e-ukraine-west
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Euromaidan was a wave of demonstrations and civil unrest in Ukraine, which began on the night of 21 November 2013 with public protests in Maidan Nezalezhnosti ("Independence Square" in Kiev, demanding closer European integration.

    The EU tried to plant its flag in another sovereign nation, causing it to become destabilised and ultimately have a portion of it annexed by Russia.

    How much it contributes to peace.
    You missed the bit about the destabilisation starting in 2010 when a corrupt pro-Putin president changed the constitution and who then, after Euromaidan, fled to Russia.

    Edit, and just thinking about your previous comments about immigration, how are your folks in Bangladesh doing?
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    (Original post by jneill)
    You say that as if migration is a bad thing...

    And for net migration we are ranked 38th in the world.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Having no control over the number of immigrants able to come to live here if they feel like it, clearly IS a bad thing.

    The population of the EU is 500 million and every single one of them could come to live here and we could do nothing about it. In fact it would be illegal under EU law to do anything to stop it.

    Do you deny this?

    Net migration last year was 333,000, 50,000 more than the population of Newcastle and six times the number of Huguenot immigrants in total. Once regarded as the largest single immigration in English history. That is for one year.

    If there are 37 countries in the world with a higher figure, fine. It seems surprising, but I believe you. So what? That hardly helps US in our challenge to build the houses they need to live in, the schools their kids need, and to hire the new GP's they need to visit.

    The most important point though is far more profound than that. There won't be an England in any recognisable sense, in a few years if we don't curtail current levels of immigration. The culture of a thousand years will have been wiped out in a single generation.

    I get that you couldn't care less about that. But a lot of English people do, and that is why immigration has become the hottest topic in politics. And will continue to be, whatever the result of this Referendum.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Heritage? So you are anti-immigration of any kind. Great.

    BTW the ex-major of London is Turkish. Also his wife is half Indian sikh.
    And Farage's current wife is German, his ex is Irish.

    Oh, and those lands seem to be doing ok...
    I urge you to watch the video in this article

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...erstate-Brexit

    The EU is Anti-Democratic
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Why do you need to understand what they're talking about unless they're talking to you?
    They could be discussing a robbery or criminal activities
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Having no control over the number of immigrants able to come to live here if they feel like it, clearly IS a bad thing.

    The population of the EU is 500 million and every single one of them could come to live here and we could do nothing about it. In fact it would be illegal under EU law to do anything to stop it.

    Do you deny this?
    Yes
    I deny that 500 million will come.

    FEAR! PANIC! TURKEY!

    The entire population of London could move to your village/suburb tomorrow. They won't. But they could.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    When push comes to shove, I believe that the majority of undecided voters will realise that economic and job security is more important to them and their families than "taking back control" and what not, and they will vote to remain. Do people think Britain will leave or stay on the 23rd?
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    Dodgy Dave at it again.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36509931

    Only helping the Leave campaign
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    Dodgy Dave at it again.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36509931

    Only helping the Leave campaign
    Surely a breach of Purdah?
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Yes
    I deny that 500 million will come.

    FEAR! PANIC! TURKEY!

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    :facepalm2:
    Spoiler:
    Show





    :toofunny:






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    I must admit I'm finding apparently being on the majority side(for once) rather unsettling. I've always tended to subscribe to the idea that most people are wrong about most things most of the time.

    I need the comfort of a slight remain lead in the polls I think.


    Edit And of course there's no getting away from the probability that I'm on the same side as the ignorant and racist
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Yes
    I deny that 500 million will come.

    FEAR! PANIC! TURKEY!

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    You deny what I didn't say, and don't deny what I did.

    As for Turkey we can expect visa free Travel for over a million Turks once this Referendum is over. Janet Douglas number two in the Turkish Embassy embarrassingly confirmed this in a leaked memo published in today's Sunday Times...

    "Visa free travel would be a risk...but a significant and symbolic gesture to Turkey.

    If visa liberalisation doesn't happen an impetuous and riled Erdogan...could carry through his threat to "open the floodgates" to Europe to migrants."

    Glad the EU has this all in hand. And our own FCO is living up to its reputation as "The Foreigner's Office."
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    (Original post by generallee)
    You deny what I didn't say, and don't deny what I did.

    As for Turkey we can expect visa free Travel for over a million Turks once this Referendum is over. Janet Douglas number two in the Turkish Embassy embarrassingly confirmed this in a leaked memo published in today's Sunday Times...

    "Visa free travel would be a risk...but a significant and symbolic gesture to Turkey.

    If visa liberalisation doesn't happen an impetuous and riled Erdogan...could carry through his threat to "open the floodgates" to Europe to migrants."

    Glad the EU has this all in hand. And our own FCO is living up to its reputation as "The Foreigner's Office."
    You must have missed my edit. So I'll repeat it here:

    The entire population of London could move to your village/suburb tomorrow. They won't. But they could.

    Keep those curtains closed. You'll be fine.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    You must have missed my edit. So I'll repeat it here:

    The entire population of London could move to your village/suburb tomorrow. They won't. But they could.

    Keep those curtain closed. You'll be fine.
    The whole world seems to have moved to my suburb already. I don't need to keep the curtains closed, I can see it whenever I walk to the shop or drive down the nearby streets. And we are not talking the inner city here, but a small English town.

    It is a fascinating cultural phenomenon actually. If you were observing it as an anthropological experiment rather than living it.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    You deny what I didn't say, and don't deny what I did.

    As for Turkey we can expect visa free Travel for over a million Turks once this Referendum is over. Janet Douglas number two in the Turkish Embassy embarrassingly confirmed this in a leaked memo published in today's Sunday Times...

    "Visa free travel would be a risk...but a significant and symbolic gesture to Turkey.

    If visa liberalisation doesn't happen an impetuous and riled Erdogan...could carry through his threat to "open the floodgates" to Europe to migrants."

    Glad the EU has this all in hand. And our own FCO is living up to its reputation as "The Foreigner's Office."
    It does not mean Turks can stay permanently or get jobs, they might come for a holiday but not much more since the visa is only for temporary stays in the EU.

    The UK has Visa free travel for lots of other countries as well.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    It does not mean Turks can stay permanently or get jobs, they might come for a holiday but not much more since the visa is only for temporary stays in the EU.

    The UK has Visa free travel for lots of other countries as well.
    Not dirt poor countries with appalling human rights records where there is a high risk of large numbers of their nationals successfully claiming asylum or overstaying their visas to immigrate illegally.

    Why do you think visas are introduced in the first place? :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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