D&D Religion's "Ask About Sikhism" Thread Watch

ma2k5
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What do you think of, Sikhism trying to be the middleground of Islam and Hinduism?
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med_lion
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lol i was wondering who will ask this....

The scientific fact about Sikhism is that it is not an intellectual extraction from other religions and creeds nor a sect of Hinduism or Islam as has been variously asserted from time to time by numerous authorities. It is an autonomous, independent religion, complete and whole, with its validity inhering in its own revelations and proclamations such as are repeatedly made in the Sikh Scripture, its pious literature and its historical movement.

The Sikh scriptural canon makes clear, emphatic and repeated assertions about Sikhism being nothing short of a complete religion, in its own right, as well as in contrast with Islam and Hinduism.

Hindu's believe in One God but do to culture things have changed and now they do idol worship and cow worship etc. Islam, on the other hand, perform pilgrimage, fasting, meat-eating. All these things are NOT in Sikhism. The point i am trying to make is not to just look at what similarities these religions have but to also look at the differences, then maybe your question would not arise.

When God ordered Guru Nanak to preach the Divine Message, the first words that He uttered was "Na ko hindu hai, na ko mussalman hai" (There is no Hindu, there is no Muslim". I don't think it takes a genious to work out what this message is trying to say.

it is also strictly forbidden in our religion to say that the Vedas and the Quran are false. In the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, various references can be made regarding Islam and Hinduism but since you are a muslim asking this question then i will show you some Islamic related quotes;

|| 7 || SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life. As he submits to God's Will (Islam) and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit. And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.

|| 2 || FIRST MEHL: There are five prayers and five times of day for prayer; the five have five names. Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God. Let the fourth be good will to all, and the fifth the praise of the Lord. Repeat the prayer of good deeds, and then, you may call yourself a Muslim. O Nanak, the false obtain falsehood, and only falsehood.

i can quote you why fasting, circumcision, pilgimage, meat-eating is wrong if you want to know. Also the circumstances of meat-eating have been mentioned by a Muslim Peer 9saint), Kabir Ji, in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
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USingh
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^What he said. But one thing is that I know which part of Gurbani you are talking about when you say that it's forbidden to call them false, thing is what it meant was one should not show hatred towards what is held sacred by others, it's about not speaking in anger and insulting scriptures of other faiths. However, Gurbani makes it quite clear that they are not the truth and will not lead one to God. For example in Anand Sahib Ji it states that all words (i.e. scriptures) without the Guru are false. Thought it was important to clarify that. (bhull chukk maaf)

Gurbani states neither paths will lead one to God (no offense intended) and only the Guru's path can, so it wouldn't really make sense for what the Guru's have said is the only path for it to be the middle ground of those that are not.

I think the only reason people say this is that Sikhi did indeed manage a certain amount to stop tensions and bring together those who had been so hateful towards each other into one path, though it would be very much incorrect to say that this was the purpose of the revelation of Sikhism to the world.
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med_lion
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Yeah USingh paaji, i totally agree with that....they are, however, not false in large volumes but there are certains things that we disagree with....but yeah the reason why we dont say they are false is because they are sacred to others...good point

It is stated in Gurbani how a Hindi and Muslim should be in order to be called a True Hindu or a true Muslim, for example in the quotes i gave above.
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USingh
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I'm just glad that there are more of us on here by the day lol
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med_lion
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i alsi attend real debates as i would like to share my knowledge and also learn more about other religions. Also paaji comment on my new thread
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ma2k5
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So, does Sikhism believe, God had sent a continuous message through other prophets, like Christianity/Islam/Judaism does. That is, from Adam as first prophet, to Noah, Jacob, Jesue etc?

If not, did God just decide to give guidance at the time Sikhism was revealed?

IF yes, what is the status of the prophets, in Sikhism, and maybe some academic criticisms of Bible/Torah/Qur'an etc?
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USingh
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(Original post by ma2k5)
So, does Sikhism believe, God had sent a continuous message through other prophets, like Christianity/Islam/Judaism does. That is, from Adam as first prophet, to Noah, Jacob, Jesue etc?
Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahraj has recorded the words of Vaheguru (God) to him before sending him to the world. In that Guru Sahib says that Vaheguru tells him that he created many great men however all of them started their own paths. It says that no one preached true worship of God's name.
I feel its important for me to state that Guru Ji says later on in the text that none of what he is sharing is out of enmity with anyone, now I understand that the prophets are very important to you so please note sikhi does not mean any ill will to them or Islam or any other religion.

If not, did God just decide to give guidance at the time Sikhism was revealed?
Although Sikhi was revealed freely to the world with the coming of Guru Nanak Sahib Ji, Sikhi has infact been available to very blessed souls even before Guru Ji was physically here. You see we believe that he has infact always been here, Guru Nanak is simply the way in which Vaheguru himself joins individuals with him. Those who before Sikhi was known to the world went even further than their own faiths and showed immense love for Vaheguru, Guru Nanak came and blessed them. With the revelation of Sikhi to the whole world, it was now made easier for individuals as now anyone could adopt Sikhi.

and maybe some academic criticisms of Bible/Torah/Qur'an etc?
Well tbh I think they wouldn't be needed, Guru Sahib's sikhs would already have learnt that they can only reach God through the Guru, so such texts would probably just encourage the putting down of other faiths, looking down on them, etc. If its a case of converting non-sikhs, Sikhs are not meant to actively seek converts as we are taught that Vaheguru/Guru Ji himself will choose who he wishes to bring into Sikhi, so for that reason there would be no use either.
Having said that, throughout Gurbani you will find places where other religion's practices have been spoken against.
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med_lion
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USingh well said!

ma2k5, prophets such as krishna and Mohammad have been mentioned in the Sri guru Gran Sahib Ji. However, God sent prophets to preach the True worship of God's Name, as USingh has stated above. But these men of God did so in the own ways which is why God sent Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Devi Ji Maharaj to convey the Truth.

Islam teaches that God sends prophets to the nations, in different times and different places, to communicate His message. Since the beginning of time, Islam believes God has sent His guidance through these chosen people. They were human beings who walked among their people and taught them about faith in One Almighty God, and how to walk on the path of righteousness.

The Quran says that:

"The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one of them believes in God, His angels, His books, and His Messengers. They say: 'We make no distinction between one and another of His Messengers.' And they say: 'We hear, and we obey. We seek Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys'" (Al-Baqarah, 2:285).

It is believed that all prophets gave guidance and instruction to their people about how to properly worship God and live their lives. Since God is One, His message has been one and the same throughout time. In essence, Muslims believe that all the prophets taught the message of Islam - to find peace in your life through submission to the One Almighty Creator -- to believe in God and to follow His guidance.

Although only 25 prophets are mentioned by name in the Qur'an, a Hadith (no. 21257 in Musnad Ibn Hanbal) mentions that there were a total 124,000 Prophets throughout history. Among the prophets that Muslims honour are: Adam, Enoch, Noah, Hud, Salih, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Lot, Jacob, Josphet, Shu’aib, Job, Moses, Aaron, Ezekiel, David, Solomon, Elias, Elisha, Jonah, Zechariah, Jesus and Muhammad.

So if God can speak through 124,000 people, which includes farmers and shepherds, and still reveal the same message, how is it not possible for the Almighty All-Powerful God to speak through 36 God-conscious divine holy men who have verses in the Holy Sri Guru granth Sahib? There is no logic in this argument that `only` the Quran is a true revelation.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is ‘real’, i.e. it is ‘reality’ not philosophy. The ‘Shabad’ (Divine Infinite Wisdom) is the Guru. Guru Nanak Sahib Ji and the Ten bodies revealed and interpreted the Shabad. Guru Arjan Dev Sahib Ji, accumulated the Shabad revelation from the first five Nanaks, fifteen Bhagats (Devotees of God), eleven Bhatts (Bards) and three Sikhs (enlightened disciples), and recorded it into the ‘Physical Word’ in the form of ‘Aad Granth Sahib Ji’ (also referred to as 'Pothi Sahib’), which was earlier form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

It is often said that Guru Arjan Dev Sahib Ji included the Banis (revealed writings) of Hindu and Muslim mystics. This is false! All the Bhagats and Bhatts whose revealed Bani was accepted and included in ‘Aaad Granth Sahib Ji’ shared the common religion of ‘Gurmat & Naam’ and had experienced ‘Sat’ (the Truth).

Truth is the Truth. There is no different angle to the Truth. The Truth is eternal, unchanging, and constant irrespective of which light someone sees it. Therefore, the Sikh Guru Sahibs, the Bhagats and Bhatts all experienced and talked about this One Universal Truth, which was "Ik Oankaar" (ੴ), as explained in the opening verse of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji:

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
“One Universal Creator God. The Truth. Who is Naam. The Creator, who pervades everything. Without Fear. Without Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Unborn. Self-Existent. Attained by the (True) Guru's Grace.”
(Ang 1)
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med_lion
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sorry for the essay i posted, but i had to do some research to include Islam into context
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USingh
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Haha I know where you got that from. Good article
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med_lion
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USingh
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(Original post by med_lion)
Hey check your message box paaji.
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med_lion
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No problemo!
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ma2k5
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(Original post by med_lion)
USingh well said!

ma2k5, prophets such as krishna and Mohammad have been mentioned in the Sri guru Gran Sahib Ji. However, God sent prophets to preach the True worship of God's Name, as USingh has stated above. But these men of God did so in the own ways which is why God sent Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Devi Ji Maharaj to convey the Truth.

Islam teaches that God sends prophets to the nations, in different times and different places, to communicate His message. Since the beginning of time, Islam believes God has sent His guidance through these chosen people. They were human beings who walked among their people and taught them about faith in One Almighty God, and how to walk on the path of righteousness.

The Quran says that:

"The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one of them believes in God, His angels, His books, and His Messengers. They say: 'We make no distinction between one and another of His Messengers.' And they say: 'We hear, and we obey. We seek Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys'" (Al-Baqarah, 2:285).

It is believed that all prophets gave guidance and instruction to their people about how to properly worship God and live their lives. Since God is One, His message has been one and the same throughout time. In essence, Muslims believe that all the prophets taught the message of Islam - to find peace in your life through submission to the One Almighty Creator -- to believe in God and to follow His guidance.

Although only 25 prophets are mentioned by name in the Qur'an, a Hadith (no. 21257 in Musnad Ibn Hanbal) mentions that there were a total 124,000 Prophets throughout history. Among the prophets that Muslims honour are: Adam, Enoch, Noah, Hud, Salih, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Lot, Jacob, Josphet, Shu’aib, Job, Moses, Aaron, Ezekiel, David, Solomon, Elias, Elisha, Jonah, Zechariah, Jesus and Muhammad.

So if God can speak through 124,000 people, which includes farmers and shepherds, and still reveal the same message, how is it not possible for the Almighty All-Powerful God to speak through 36 God-conscious divine holy men who have verses in the Holy Sri Guru granth Sahib? There is no logic in this argument that `only` the Quran is a true revelation.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is ‘real’, i.e. it is ‘reality’ not philosophy. The ‘Shabad’ (Divine Infinite Wisdom) is the Guru. Guru Nanak Sahib Ji and the Ten bodies revealed and interpreted the Shabad. Guru Arjan Dev Sahib Ji, accumulated the Shabad revelation from the first five Nanaks, fifteen Bhagats (Devotees of God), eleven Bhatts (Bards) and three Sikhs (enlightened disciples), and recorded it into the ‘Physical Word’ in the form of ‘Aad Granth Sahib Ji’ (also referred to as 'Pothi Sahib’), which was earlier form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

It is often said that Guru Arjan Dev Sahib Ji included the Banis (revealed writings) of Hindu and Muslim mystics. This is false! All the Bhagats and Bhatts whose revealed Bani was accepted and included in ‘Aaad Granth Sahib Ji’ shared the common religion of ‘Gurmat & Naam’ and had experienced ‘Sat’ (the Truth).

Truth is the Truth. There is no different angle to the Truth. The Truth is eternal, unchanging, and constant irrespective of which light someone sees it. Therefore, the Sikh Guru Sahibs, the Bhagats and Bhatts all experienced and talked about this One Universal Truth, which was "Ik Oankaar" (ੴ), as explained in the opening verse of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji:

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
“One Universal Creator God. The Truth. Who is Naam. The Creator, who pervades everything. Without Fear. Without Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Unborn. Self-Existent. Attained by the (True) Guru's Grace.”
(Ang 1)
Thanks for the reply. I want to mention some things though - regarding the bold parts. I didn't state in my arguement that - only Qur'an is true revelation. Or that, sikhs texts are false. I was just interested in, the whole philosophy lets say, of Sikhism. Those of abrahamic religions are that, God created man, to obey him from start to end - and sent prophet/messengers to them throughout to guide them. I wasn't trying to make this, abrahamic religions vs Sikhism discussion, or anything - rather learn something about sikhism.

So, what is the purpose of life in Sikhism exactly? What do you mean by, sikhism in spirit existed before the revelations?
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USingh
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(Original post by ma2k5)
I wasn't trying to make this, abrahamic religions vs Sikhism discussion, or anything - rather learn something about sikhism.


So, what is the purpose of life in Sikhism exactly?
Simply to follow God's command and love him, that's really it.

What do you mean by, sikhism in spirit existed before the revelations?
Well, Sikhi, being a student, has existed as long as the Guru, the teacher has. Now what the Guru is, is Shabad/Gurbani- the writings in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In that it is written that there is infact no difference between God and Gurbani, they are one and the same. So in that case, the Guru, and hence Sikhi,being his student, has existed as long as God has- forever.
Now Guru Nanak and Gurbani are also one and the same, Guru Nanak is simply the way in which God himself reveals Gurbani to humans.
So as you can see, Guru Nanak Sahib Ji did actually exist even before he took on a body.
If, at some time before Guru Nanak Dev Ji actually had a physical body one person had shown extreme, undying love for God, then it certainly would not have made sense for them not to be saved, so God simply came to them as Guru Nanak and made them his Sikh.
When Guru Nanak Dev Ji actually took on a body, it became easier as now anyone, at any level of spirituality could become a Sikh, rather than a blessed few.
I'm really sorry if any of that didn't make sense, its a bit hard to explain. Let me know if it didn't.
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med_lion
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Yeah i agree with USingh.

ma2k5 just for some information;

Some of the major Sikh beliefs are:

1) One God
-God is the Creator of the Universe
-God isn't born and will never die
-God is present everywhere
2) Equality
-All human beings are equal
-People of all religions and races are welcome in Sikh Gurdwaras
-Women have equal status with men in religious services and ceremonies
3) Birth and Death
-After a person dies, his soul is born again in another body, human or animal
-One's next life depends on his deeds in the past life
-The human life is supreme and it is through this life that we can achieve oneness with God
-Finding God takes us out of this life cycle
4) Non-Violence
-Sikhs are a peace loving people and stand for Truth and Justice
-Guru Gobind Singh Ji said, "It is right to use force as a last resort when all other peaceful means fail."


As for your question, i would like to stress once again that Sikh is more a way of life rather than a mere religion. There are 4 main things that a True Sikh must do in order to reach Salvation with the Supreme;

1) Naam Japna or Simran (Meditation)
-One of the basic principles for living a good life
-Simran helps you get closer to God
-Simran brings a peace of mind

2) Kirat Karni (Work)
-The second basic principle for living a good life
-Sikhs should only accept what they have earned by honesty and hard work
-Sikhs shouldn't take away what rightfully belongs to others
-Guru Nanak Dev Ji said, "Taking away other's right is as sinful as pork to a Muslim and beef to a Hindu."

3) Wand Chakna (Charity Donations)
-Sikhs should give to the poor and needy in the form of charity
-Sikhs should share with others

4) Sewa (Service to Humanity and God)
-Sewa is a major part of Sikhism and many people do it at the Gurdwara
-A great example of Sewa is the story of Bhai Kanahya, who in a battle gave water to both Sikhs and Mughals
-Bhai Kanahya was asked by Guru Gobind Singh Ji why he was doing it and Bhai Kanahya said, "I do not see a friend or foe, I only see your face everywhere."
-Bhai Kanahya was blessed and started the first Red Cross.

I hope this has answered your question of a Sikh's purpose in life.
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Charzhino
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I am still not convinced with this non meat-eating aspect. I did some research, and most Sikhism websites state that eating meat is down to the individuals choice.
This is a quote from the commentary on the Bani, page1289-1290.
''Finally Guru Nanak concludes by saying that all vegetables and meat are the same because their basic ingredient is water and that the Brahmin vegetarian if he really wants to practice his religious renunciation instead of not eating meat he should give up water altogether. ''
Source: http://www.sikhs.org/meat_gn.htm
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USingh
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(Original post by Charzhino)
I am still not convinced with this non meat-eating aspect. I did some research, and most Sikhism websites state that eating meat is down to the individuals choice.
This is a quote from the commentary on the Bani, page1289-1290.
''Finally Guru Nanak concludes by saying that all vegetables and meat are the same because their basic ingredient is water and that the Brahmin vegetarian if he really wants to practice his religious renunciation instead of not eating meat he should give up water altogether. ''
Source: http://www.sikhs.org/meat_gn.htm
Believe me, you'll find that 99% of Amritdharis you meet will not eat meat. ALL major jathas are against it. The only amrit sanchars which allow it are the ones run by sgpc, this is probably less than 5% of them.
These two links cover EVERY argument used in favour of meat, including explanations of the shabads supposedly allowing it.
http://www.sikhism101.com/node/77
http://www.sikhism101.com/node/219
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med_lion
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Usingh got here before me i see
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