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    Also I don't think anybody should blame Pogba for this and Rooney is still part of the problem.

    (Original post by Fizzel)
    I don't see how he's relevant when he's broadly does a similar thing to Carrick who is barely getting a game. We don't need him anyway, not with Herrera playing in his current role.
    Herrera should play alongside a proper DM or DLP so that you're not open to every single counter attack(bare in mind your being open to the counter attack and poor coverage of the midfield is a clearly recurring theme over the season, not just this game, even in the europa league) while allowing the creative AMs/wingers to move up the pitch so Ibrahimovic isn't isolated.

    Anyway this game is reminiscent of José last season in a nutshell. I think it's going to get worse personally and you're pretty predictable in attack as you don't get numbers forward quickly enough. Reckon he's going to blame Van Gaal and retraining the system for this.
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    Guys. I am not a United fan, but just wanna know.

    When the **** will you just fire Smalling? He was responsible for 4 goals today. Never seen a worse CB for a top club than him.
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    Fight me bammy jastard 27


    Hold me back Dirtybit


    Luke, your sister.
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    Obviously he's not to blame for today, but Rashford looked like he was just going through the motions. Impossible for him to keep that spark when we're asking him to start week in week out at his age. Think he's best used as an impact sub apart from when he's on **** hot form.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Guys. I am not a United fan, but just wanna know.

    When the **** will you just fire Smalling? He was responsible for 4 goals today. Never seen a worse CB for a top club than him.
    Well seeing how he's our only fit Centre Back at the moment, i'd say pretty unlikely.

    No I don't count Daley Blind as a CB.
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    (Original post by sr90)
    Well seeing how he's our only fit Centre Back at the moment, i'd say pretty unlikely.

    No I don't count Daley Blind as a CB.
    Smalling was already at the club when Vidic and Ferdinand were still playing right?

    And he is still at the club. And what because they are gone suddenly it means he is good enough?

    Buy a CB...you have money, did you really need Pogba more than a CB?
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    (Original post by Louis.)
    Obviously he's not to blame for today, but Rashford looked like he was just going through the motions. Impossible for him to keep that spark when we're asking him to start week in week out at his age. Think he's best used as an impact sub apart from when he's on **** hot form.
    What spark can you possibly have when you are playing at wingback with no wing support offensively and your striker's pretty damn isolated? Moses can pass the ball with Pedro and Kante, Rashford can pass the ball with Moses and Azpilicueta.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    What spark can you possibly have when you are playing at wingback with no wing support offensively and your striker's pretty damn isolated? Moses can pass the ball with Pedro and Kante, Rashford can pass the ball with Moses and Azpilicueta.
    Well obviously he spent too much time at left back. But there were moments in the final third where his play just looked a bit flat. I remember a bit of skill he tried against Azpilicueta that was just ridiculously telegraphed. Missed a decent chance from around the penalty spot too when he didn't attack the ball. This is a guy who looked exciting in an LVG side, and who had a (mini) spark in the England loss to Iceland. He's capable, even with no support, of just taking players out of the game and making things happen. But I don't think he's capable of that over an entire season, and we need to manage his workload.
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    (Original post by Louis.)
    Well obviously he spent too much time at left back. But there were moments in the final third where his play just looked a bit flat. I remember a bit of skill he tried against Azpilicueta that was just ridiculously telegraphed. Missed a decent chance from around the penalty spot too when he didn't attack the ball. This is a guy who looked exciting in an LVG side, and who had a (mini) spark in the England loss to Iceland. He's capable, even with no support, of just taking players out of the game and making things happen. But I don't think he's capable of that over an entire season, and we need to manage his workload.
    Yeah I agree on that count. Martial not starting baffles me as well. Especially since Lingard plays games.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    He's thinking they got stumped and Hazard killed them. I'm pretty sure them two are boys(just like him and Pogba) so it's nothing to be concerned about.
    Its the fact that him and a few of them are all forgetting they put in a **** performance and got battered.

    At least act like you care about the result ffs. All bout the pay check.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Also I don't think anybody should blame Pogba for this and Rooney is still part of the problem.
    Pogba is going to get slaughtered all season for his price tag. I don't mind Rooney playing, it just when he dictates how the entire team plays and set up that he is a problem. Last few sub appearances Jose has thrown him on wide for example. If he can play well enough there, I don't mind him in the team but we're past the point of other players selection being based on fitting in around him.

    Herrera should play alongside a proper DM or DLP so that you're not open to every single counter attack(bare in mind your being open to the counter attack and poor coverage of the midfield is a clearly recurring theme over the season, not just this game, even in the europa league) while allowing the creative AMs/wingers to move up the pitch so Ibrahimovic isn't isolated.
    Maybe, I would just think a simpler option is to keep Herrera where he is and play somebody capable of a bit more than Fellaini next to him. You could play him with Basti or Carrick but you wouldn't get the lateral movement that Herrera has been providing in the Liverpool game for example. Only his energy there covering the lack of a true DM. Kante style DM, not always in the correct position but athletic and committed enough to make a tackle or what not. Most games the Ibra link wide isn't a problem, with Martial and Rashford they naturally play more like forwards than wingers.

    The midfield link to Ibra isn't so much a problem with Pogba now at 10. Against Liverpool, Pobga was sharing pressing responsibilities with Ibra. The issue as was the case in this game is more about now we've push Pogba high, and Herrera deep, without one of wide players available (if Jose has them tracking fullbacks) who is the link man? Obvious solution today was pulling Pogba back, but the fact it was Fellaini rather than Pogba that gave way, Jose really wants two Pogba's. A more capable link man but he likes Pogba's height and presence further forward. No idea why, but I don't see why he doesn't just use Morgan, with the current Herrera and Pogba set up. Its not a role which required much other than a defensively capable midfielder with some hint of technical ability and versatility.

    Anyway this game is reminiscent of José last season in a nutshell. I think it's going to get worse personally and you're pretty predictable in attack as you don't get numbers forward quickly enough. Reckon he's going to blame Van Gaal and retraining the system for this.
    The problem for me is we know he is a reactive manager but he was too reactive here. If you want to cover off this system from Conte, do what Low did at the Euro's and just mirror it. If you want to play the system Jose did today it needed to be narrow, and fast. Make the wingbacks irrelevant, overload the centre and force the system to fail, he was too focused defending your system for our to ever succeed.

    I don't think its simply a case of getting people forward quickly but its limitation of our players too. Ibra more or less means a through ball or ball over the top is not an option. He gets caught offside often becuase of a lack of pace, he cannot out run pretty much any CB. Basically when Ibra receives the ball he either needs a near immediate lay off option or he needs to be in a position to pull the trigger. The solution to this was supposed to be Mkhi with his combination of pace, playmaking and goal threat. Martial and Rashford don't have that playmaking ability and Mata obviously lacks pace and defensive attributes. So we're in a bit of a bind, you're either predictable or relying on non-playmakers interchanging.

    Plenty of problems but considering Jose bought the players he wanted in summer, a very specific number, he seems to be having very hard time solving them.
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    Pogba just needs to keep it simple.

    Do your job. Doesn't matter if you don't hit a screamer or dribble past 3 players. Play the game and no one will hammer you for it.
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    Obviously Pogba is getting stick but I swear when Arsenal signed Ozil, the media went into some tailspin hype with minute by minute updates on his lack of impact from literally his second game. And Ozil was not as bad as Pogba is atm. In general Pogba will be a good player but his mentality seems unprofessional and he doesnt make much of an effort to work with his team mates imo. They have to react to whatever space he wants to cover.

    Think it's clear that Utd bought badly in the summer tbh. Rashford at WB and relying on the likes of Young/Lingard for width etc is not clever.
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    That was a bad day at the office from the first kick of the ball, I think we should take it on the chin and move on. Maybe as Bailey is a long term injury doubt now, we should see whose available in January or try the young guy from Congo.

    Lets be honest, a game v Chelsea after Fenerbache on Thursday was always going to be an uphill task, especially when a lot of the core players started both games. Perhaps in the future we can have separate squads for each competition which I'm sure people like Depay, Schneiderlin, Darmian etc will benefit from.

    City next, after that it gets a bit easier against Burnley phew!
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    (Original post by Rk2k14)
    Pogba just needs to keep it simple.

    Do your job. Doesn't matter if you don't hit a screamer or dribble past 3 players. Play the game and no one will hammer you for it.
    Don't think anybody could put it better than that tbh.

    He's so concerned about living up to his price rage every game that he isn't playing like a CM. He's trying to do way too much and as a result it goes the other way and he looks like an average player.

    5 points adrift of top 4 but with the sheer quality you have at your disposal, anybody thinking about counting you out would be fools. All it'll take is a few victories in a row and you'll be back up here with the big boys
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    (Original post by SirAlexFerguson)
    City next, after that it gets a bit easier against Burnley phew!
    You mean the same Burnley that beat Liverpool and Everton, and would've held Arsenal if not for a controversial late winner?

    Fortunately you're playing them at Old Trafford because they're exceptional at home.
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    ****s sake, here we go
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    Maybe, I would just think a simpler option is to keep Herrera where he is and play somebody capable of a bit more than Fellaini next to him. You could play him with Basti or Carrick but you wouldn't get the lateral movement that Herrera has been providing in the Liverpool game for example. Only his energy there covering the lack of a true DM. Kante style DM, not always in the correct position but athletic and committed enough to make a tackle or what not. Most games the Ibra link wide isn't a problem, with Martial and Rashford they naturally play more like forwards than wingers.
    True.

    The midfield link to Ibra isn't so much a problem with Pogba now at 10. Against Liverpool, Pobga was sharing pressing responsibilities with Ibra. The issue as was the case in this game is more about now we've push Pogba high, and Herrera deep, without one of wide players available (if Jose has them tracking fullbacks) who is the link man? Obvious solution today was pulling Pogba back, but the fact it was Fellaini rather than Pogba that gave way, Jose really wants two Pogba's. A more capable link man but he likes Pogba's height and presence further forward. No idea why, but I don't see why he doesn't just use Morgan, with the current Herrera and Pogba set up. Its not a role which required much other than a defensively capable midfielder with some hint of technical ability and versatility.
    Yeah there is no link man, but obviously that gets sorted out with either José not leaving the midfield so open and so spacious and getting them to play near each other or using the wingers. I think one thing that forgets to be mentioned with the actual systems is that Chelsea clearly outnumber United in midfield, we have a 4 man midfield against your 3 man with 2 wingbacks alongside for support. I think the extra man in midfield for us affects how you shuffle the midfield, which explains why your wingers are so deep and why we were difficult to break down. Although like you say that's Mourinho being overly reactive instead of proactive. Really think that if Liverpool scored early on Monday the same thing would have happened. We scored a freak goal and I think if we hadn't scored then, the game would have been much closer as we wouldn't be playing on the break.

    The problem for me is we know he is a reactive manager but he was too reactive here. If you want to cover off this system from Conte, do what Low did at the Euro's and just mirror it. If you want to play the system Jose did today it needed to be narrow, and fast. Make the wingbacks irrelevant, overload the centre and force the system to fail, he was too focused defending your system for our to ever succeed.

    I don't think its simply a case of getting people forward quickly but its limitation of our players too. Ibra more or less means a through ball or ball over the top is not an option. He gets caught offside often becuase of a lack of pace, he cannot out run pretty much any CB. Basically when Ibra receives the ball he either needs a near immediate lay off option or he needs to be in a position to pull the trigger. The solution to this was supposed to be Mkhi with his combination of pace, playmaking and goal threat. Martial and Rashford don't have that playmaking ability and Mata obviously lacks pace and defensive attributes. So we're in a bit of a bind, you're either predictable or relying on non-playmakers interchanging.

    Plenty of problems but considering Jose bought the players he wanted in summer, a very specific number, he seems to be having very hard time solving them.
    I think there was not much that could have been done to win the game with the team José put out after we scored the first goal so early. José's aim was to get a 0-0 draw.

    Yeah some of your players clearly have limitations on the counter attack but this was a clear feature of Chelsea the last few seasons too yet we have players that are pretty suited for counter attacking football. I understand Ibra won't be running past the last defender, however with support runs from Martial and Rashford while having a guy like Pogba/Mkhitaryan capable of driving from midfield you should still be able to play quality transition play. It's like what you said earlier, how Ibra will be reliant on the people around him. Other than Ibra, you have plenty of players suited to play in transition but with no link up man a counter attack is useless, you're then left with long balls to Ibra or slowing your attack down, but then that's been obvious since week one of this season.
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    (Original post by Rk2k14)
    Its the fact that him and a few of them are all forgetting they put in a **** performance and got battered.

    At least act like you care about the result ffs. All bout the pay check.
    Well yeah who thinks Ibra really cares about United, he's here for a last payday and to play with his buddy Paul.
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    (Original post by Rk2k14)
    As if this day could get any worse.
    today is literally the worst day ever and one i will never forget too
 
 
 
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