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    Lets not resort to personal comments.

    ....

    Having read this thread though I'm intensely pleased at our 2020 prospects. While its great that you have conviction, you must surely realize how little you can do when not in government. You also severely underestimate just how much Corbyn would be defecated on by the media, this is a man who's a Republican, believes the Argies should have the Falklands and is sympathetic to Irish independence.

    Without wanting to offend, I really do feel that the likes of Ray ( and other Labourites in RL) are wasted on you. Acting as a pressure group rather than political party gave you 18 years of the Tories before and you've clearly not all learnt from that mistake.
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    (Original post by Withengar)
    I know this might be a silly question, but I'm an upcoming student in a British university (moving to the UK in September) and the Labour party is the one I support. Can I actually join the party ranks, despite being from the EU? (I'm studying Politics)
    Yes, absolutely.

    You can send a request to join by selecting "Labour" here.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Are you another one of these people that will make a statement based on what they think they know rather than what is actually so? Grammar schools do not help the poor in very significant numbers. If there is a very good school, those who can afford to move into the catchment area and price out the poor.

    Why were there so few poor at my sixth form? They couldn't afford to live there.
    Why are the grammar schools full of middle class students? The poor cannot afford to live there.
    Some people have to get the lucky ticket in the postcode lottery, others can simply buy it.
    That's more a problem with grammar schools being so few and far between - if there were one in every town then that effect wouldn't occur to anything like that extent.
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    Just to weigh in on the leadership question, though it shouldn't be news to anyone by now, Labour would have a better chance of winning an election with Jeremy Clarkson leading the party than Jeremy Corbyn.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    I hate to break it to you, but....you're not a left winger. Centre right at best.
    lol
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    I'm not right wing, I just reject a classical socialist scale when defining myself. The left wing is larger than Karl Marx.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Are you another one of these people that will make a statement based on what they think they know rather than what is actually so? Grammar schools do not help the poor in very significant numbers. If there is a very good school, those who can afford to move into the catchment area and price out the poor.

    Why were there so few poor at my sixth form? They couldn't afford to live there.
    Why are the grammar schools full of middle class students? The poor cannot afford to live there.
    Some people have to get the lucky ticket in the postcode lottery, others can simply buy it.

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    With a national grammar school system all areas would be served by this. Also higher funding for schools in low income areas would help to provide education which competes with that of a higher income child with private tuition.
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    I'm not right wing, I just reject a classical socialist scale when defining myself. The left wing is larger than Karl Marx.
    You can easily be leftist without being a marxist (I am) however going from your previous statements you appear to be centre or centre-left at most.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    You can easily be leftist without being a marxist (I am) however going from your previous statements you appear to be centre or centre-left at most.
    i am centre/centre left. That does not make me a right winger. Right wingers see the free market as an end, I see it as a tool to create ends.
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    i am centre/centre left. That does not make me a right winger. Right wingers see the free market as an end, I see it as a tool to create ends.
    Yeah, I agree however personally I cannot abide by a free market which gives such unequal and often undeserved distribution of money.
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    I'm not right wing, I just reject a classical socialist scale when defining myself. The left wing is larger than Karl Marx.
    Of course it is, but you're effectively advocating real life Tory policies. You practically quoted Cameron when you were talking about zero hours contracts. Seriously - you are not left wing.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Of course it is, but you're effectively advocating real life Tory policies. You practically quoted Cameron when you were talking about zero hours contracts. Seriously - you are not left wing.
    Cameron was talking common sense then. If you up employers costs to provide jobs, demand for those jobs will lower. That's simple economics. Not to mention how great zero hours contracts are from those who use them, including hostpital bank staff and myself.
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    Not to mention how great zero hours contracts are from those who use them, including hostpital bank staff and myself.
    Zero-Hour contracts aren't all great when a person who requires regular hours is given one.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Zero-Hour contracts aren't all great when a person who requires regular hours is given one.
    Then they can choose not to accept the contract. If they choose to keep the contract, then they obviously prefer that job to whatever alternative they have. IF so, then why take it away?
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    i am centre/centre left. That does not make me a right winger. Right wingers see the free market as an end, I see it as a tool to create ends.
    The market is a tool to create prosperity so i suppose i dont view it quite as end for its own sake (though the market is superior to government at allocating almost all resources).

    I imagine most left wingers value things like equality though which the market will never produce (a non issue in itself for Me).
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    Then they can choose not to accept the contract. If they choose to keep the contract, then they obviously prefer that job to whatever alternative they have. IF so, then why take it away?
    Because generally the alternative that they have is unemployment.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The market is a tool to create prosperity so i suppose i dont view it quite as end for its own sake (though the market is superior to government at allocating almost all resources).

    I imagine most left wingers value things like equality though which the market will never produce (a non issue in itself for Me).
    In my opinion, right wingers value freedoms, and left wingers value public goods. I fall into the latter camp, but see freedom as a public good that should be accounted for (if not dominating others) and I see that the economic argument over markets vs government methods for achieving these goods has largely been lost. A good general knows when to retreat.

    The state has a role in those markets where our defined public goods won't be provided adequately by the markets, ie healthcare, infrastructure and government.

    I am shocked to find that this is a controversial position among my colleagues in the left.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Because generally the alternative that they have is unemployment.
    And this would change if you took jobs away how?
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    And this would change if you took jobs away how?
    Companies still need workers, banning them from using these contracts in certain circumstances it is unlikely to cause mass loss of jobs.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Companies still need workers, banning them from using these contracts in certain circumstances it is unlikely to cause mass loss of jobs.
    Many companies would go under, some would drastically reduce their production curve (mass job losses) some would weather the storm and make less money.
 
 
 
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