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    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    That's insane, how do you find the time to get all that in along with basic science teaching? What concerns me is that if Oxbridge medics are to join your year 3, are they not going to be in a totally different place clinically? Can't see how that could work.
    It actually complements the basic clinical sciences teaching. This entire semester has focused on reproduction, growth, ageing, mechanisms of defence, immunology etc so those sessions do follow on from the lectures, anatomy and CBL cases from that particular week. That's besides two SSCs (5000 words each), a family study (4000 words) and various other CPH/PPD/reflective assignments. The workload has indeed been insane this year.

    Oxbridge transfers and third year biomed transfers get given a hench clinical skills handbook covering years 1 - 2 clinical skills and as far as I'm aware, they are expected to cover it in the summer before starting T-year. I think there are scheduled sessions for them in the summer too.
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    (Original post by visesh)
    From what I gather from my friends who emigrated to London, they get a solid 2-3 week 'introduction' to clinical stuff and catch most of it up during their first term there seeing as most of that stuff isn't exactly rocket science :p:
    Well that's what we get here anyway at the start of the clinical years (as the only clinical stuff we get in yrs 1-2 is comm stuff), just seems if they've put a lot of emphasis on clinical examinations throughout pre-clin years when the oxbridge emigrators are learning it all in a couple of weeks then they're perhaps wasting time and effort on that stuff when the focus should perhaps be on medical science.
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    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    Well that's what we get here anyway at the start of the clinical years (as the only clinical stuff we get in yrs 1-2 is comm stuff), just seems if they've put a lot of emphasis on clinical examinations throughout pre-clin years when the oxbridge emigrators are learning it all in a couple of weeks then they're perhaps wasting time and effort on that stuff when the focus should perhaps be on medical science.
    We do the same thing - token CVS/resp half days where the first and second years get really excited and do it on a actor, good day out Then come 3rd year - 3 weeks of intensive examination teaching with a OSCE at the end that you have to pass - then you're let out onto the wards.
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    (Original post by i'm no superman)
    It actually complements the basic clinical sciences teaching. This entire semester has focused on reproduction, growth, ageing, mechanisms of defence, immunology etc so those sessions do follow on from the lectures, anatomy and CBL cases from that particular week. That's besides two SSCs (5000 words each), a family study (4000 words) and various other CPH/PPD/reflective assignments. The workload has indeed been insane this year.

    Oxbridge transfers and third year biomed transfers get given a hench clinical skills handbook covering years 1 - 2 clinical skills and as far as I'm aware, they are expected to cover it in the summer before starting T-year. I think there are scheduled sessions for them in the summer too.
    Sounds like a hell of a lot of work to me! We just learn that stuff at the start of third year so seems they're really putting on the pressure for you guys.

    Keep seeing T-year bounded around by you guys, what's it stand for?
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    (Original post by Wangers)
    We do the same thing - token CVS/resp half days where the first and second years get really excited and do it on a actor, good day out Then come 3rd year - 3 weeks of intensive examination teaching with a OSCE at the end that you have to pass - then you're let out onto the wards.
    Quite glad now our OSCE was in May and not at the start of next year! Don't think I've another one until next Easter.
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    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    Sounds like a hell of a lot of work to me! We just learn that stuff at the start of third year so seems they're really putting on the pressure for you guys.

    Keep seeing T-year bounded around by you guys, what's it stand for?
    I agree, like you said, it would probably be better if they focused more on the medical sciences teaching in the first two-years - it's called the 'pre-clinical' years after all.

    T-year stands for transitional year (or third year) when you make the transition from pre-clinical to clinical medicine.
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    (Original post by i'm no superman)
    I agree, like you said, it would probably be better if they focused more on the medical sciences teaching in the first two-years - it's called the 'pre-clinical' years after all.

    T-year stands for transitional year (or third year) when you make the transition from pre-clinical to clinical medicine.
    Everyone has started to gag for "spiral curriculum" these days, we just gonna have to deal.
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    (Original post by i'm no superman)
    I agree, like you said, it would probably be better if they focused more on the medical sciences teaching in the first two-years - it's called the 'pre-clinical' years after all.

    T-year stands for transitional year (or third year) when you make the transition from pre-clinical to clinical medicine.
    Of course that stuff doesn't matter if it's an integrated course, but then those don't do Oxbridge transfers - probably doesn't matter overall though (especially as you're at King's next year ).

    Probably should have guessed that
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Everyone has started to gag for "spiral curriculum" these days, we just gonna have to deal.
    I really think the spiral curriculum is a good idea. Based on my two preclinical years: it works.
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    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    Well that's what we get here anyway at the start of the clinical years (as the only clinical stuff we get in yrs 1-2 is comm stuff), just seems if they've put a lot of emphasis on clinical examinations throughout pre-clin years when the oxbridge emigrators are learning it all in a couple of weeks then they're perhaps wasting time and effort on that stuff when the focus should perhaps be on medical science.
    You might have a point there...
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    I really think the spiral curriculum is a good idea. Based on my two preclinical years: it works.
    Same, I also agree that it is a very good idea.

    It gives you hooks to hang the anatomy and physiology on. Without the underlying clinical "hooks" I don't think i would have been able to learn the A&P on its own.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Same, I also agree that it is a very good idea.

    It gives you hooks to hang the anatomy and physiology on. Without the underlying clinical "hooks" I don't think i would have been able to learn the A&P on its own.
    Surely systems based learning can provide those same 'hooks', every scenario we have covering A&P/Pharm etc etc is based on and around a clinical scenario.
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    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    Surely systems based learning can provide those same 'hooks', every scenario we have covering A&P/Pharm etc etc is based on and around a clinical scenario.
    Did you revisit each system in year 2? E.g Do you come back to cardiovascular?
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Did you revisit each system in year 2? E.g Do you come back to cardiovascular?
    Nope. Year one is cardiovascular, resp, gastro and renal; year two is upper and lower limb, endo, repro, head and neck, neuro, genetics, haem and infections/immunology. Although we do have an intro course for the first term of first year with maybe a couple of basic lectures on each system, covering a lot of metabolism, biochem and cellular biology stuff.
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    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    Nope. Year one is cardiovascular, resp, gastro and renal; year two is upper and lower limb, endo, repro, head and neck, neuro, genetics, haem and infections/immunology. Although we do have an intro course for the first term of first year with maybe a couple of basic lectures on each system, covering a lot of metabolism, biochem and cellular biology stuff.
    Yea that does provide the "hook", but coming back to a system again in year 2 lets you lean those little bits you missed and makes you feel more relaxed in year 1 as you know it will come back around to that same system once more.

    How long is spent on each system?
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    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    Surely systems based learning can provide those same 'hooks', every scenario we have covering A&P/Pharm etc etc is based on and around a clinical scenario.
    Ours is relatively systems based, but it's also spiral. Like, we did everything in year one (bar a few topics), but revisited most things in year two and covered the majority of the things we missed (and we'll cover the remainder next year).

    For instance, last year my understanding on a lot of the topics was reasonable, but not brilliant; I feel like after year two I understand most bodily systems really quite well. And a lot of the students who didn't feel comfortable with things after first year got a second chance to bolster things this year.

    I guess you could then make the argument for covering things properly once rather than the spiral filling in gaps each time you complete a turn. Then again, human memory often leaves a lot to be desired; I'm convinced I'll remember things better having covered information twice or once but had a decent grounding to work on than if I'd just covered it once from scratch.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Yea that does provide the "hook", but coming back to a system again in year 2 lets you lean those little bits you missed and makes you feel more relaxed in year 1 as you know it will come back around to that same system once more.

    How long is spent on each system?
    Depends really - neuro (inc. psych stuff) was 8 weeks, whereas cardiovasc was about 4 weeks, and renal around 2. Felt like each system was covered thoroughly in that time.

    How exactly does it work covering each one twice? I'm guessing different topics related to it each year.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Ours is relatively systems based, but it's also spiral. Like, we did everything in year one (bar a few topics), but revisited most things in year two and covered the majority of the things we missed (and we'll cover the remainder next year).

    For instance, last year my understanding on a lot of the topics was reasonable, but not brilliant; I feel like after year two I understand most bodily systems really quite well. And a lot of the students who didn't feel comfortable with things after first year got a second chance to bolster things this year.

    I guess you could then make the argument for covering things properly once rather than the spiral filling in gaps each time you complete a turn. Then again, human memory often leaves a lot to be desired; I'm convinced I'll remember things better having covered information twice or once but had a decent grounding to work on than if I'd just covered it once from scratch.
    I see, can certainly see the benefits with regards to memory - as systems from first year are certainly a little hazy now, and I think I'll refresh myself a little before I go on the relevant rotation. On the plus side though I have felt with each system I've got to grips with it really well with the time dedicated to it all at once.
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    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    Depends really - neuro (inc. psych stuff) was 8 weeks, whereas cardiovasc was about 4 weeks, and renal around 2. Felt like each system was covered thoroughly in that time.

    How exactly does it work covering each one twice? I'm guessing different topics related to it each year.
    We've cumulatively spent a similar amount of time on those three topics you've mentioned to what you have done.

    For example, we did quite a bit of neuroanatomy last year, but this year we had a case involving a woman who had brain mets, which meant we had to review the neuroanatomy we did last year and fill a few bits in. Last year we did renal physiology, but not overly thoroughly and this year we reviewed that but built it up in the case on diabetic nephropathy. Those are just two examples, but you get the idea.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    We've cumulatively spent a similar amount of time on those three topics you've mentioned to what you have done.

    For example, we did quite a bit of neuroanatomy last year, but this year we had a case involving a woman who had brain mets, which meant we had to review the neuroanatomy we did last year and fill a few bits in. Last year we did renal physiology, but not overly thoroughly and this year we reviewed that but built it up in the case on diabetic nephropathy. Those are just two examples, but you get the idea.
    Makes sense, although I quite like to get things done and dusted (which I realise is not the best attitude to have for this course ).
 
 
 
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