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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    But that's taking those children's behaviour as caused by their upbringing as an isolated system. Societal behaviour doesn't work like that.
    Yes it does, the most unruly children act up for attention, immaturity or because of unrest in the family home. The individual development is led mainly by the parents, and the education of a young child has no impact on the family situation at home or the lack of attention parents give their children.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Yes it does, the most unruly children act up for attention, immaturity or because of unrest in the family home. The individual development is led mainly by the parents, and the education of a young child has no impact on the family situation at home or the lack of attention parents give their children.
    And they're in that situation not because all poor parents are horrible people, but due to their own lack of education. And the chicken + egg cycle continues.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Zero hour contracts at companies such as Sports Direct rarely give someone on the contact zero working hours. The use of zero hour contracts is to allow extra workers to be brought in when the staff are stretched during buys times, and to spread out the work load between extra workers all paid on an hourly basis. Assume the company calculated its maximum profitable productivity was achieved when man hours was 2000 per week, the company could either hire 50 full time staff to work 40 hours a week on full time contracts or it could hire an unlimited number of zero hour contracts to give 100 workers 20 hours a week. The hourly wage rate is the same for all staff on all contracts the cos to the company is the same but zero hour contracts provide more workers. It is true the company could hire 100 workers on 20 hour, part-time contracts but if during the winter months business was slow it is more costly to keep the fixed contract workers coming in to work, but zero hour workers can not be given working hours, hence the trend to favour zero hour contracts for seasonal-dependent businesses.
    That's something I can definitely see and I'm not necessarily saying they should be outlawed or anything, just that the idea that doing so would drive businesses to bankruptcy wasn't true.
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    On the wider point of my short sabbatical it was planned long in advance, before the Liberal departure or the VoNC and whilst I do love the MHoC it wasn't something I could easily cancel (or would want to for that matter) - rest assured I did plan ahead, installing our much cherished Chairman @Saracen's Fez as Acting Leader for the interim and maintaining my 100% voting record without the need of a proxy.
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    (Original post by Green_Pink)
    That's something I can definitely see and I'm not necessarily saying they should be outlawed or anything, just that the idea that doing so would drive businesses to bankruptcy wasn't true.
    I never said that. I said that job losses would occur, and the opportunity cost of those job losses outweighs the benefit that removing zero hours brings.
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    And they're in that situation not because all poor parents are horrible people, but due to their own lack of education. And the chicken + egg cycle continues.
    We really need a cultural shift, in South Korea for example 70% of parents get their child a private tutor in addition to the state education. In the UK, people complain they don't have the money for that right after buying the latest Iphone or Samsung TV.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Yes it does, the most unruly children act up for attention, immaturity or because of unrest in the family home. The individual development is led mainly by the parents, and the education of a young child has no impact on the family situation at home or the lack of attention parents give their children.
    bold is complete nonsense, you are ignoring MH for one which is a massive factor, also it depends on what you mean by unruly. For instance I would suggest that chalenging the teacher is good and it's better then strict obedience.

    And again it is half nature half nurture in my book, attention is a big thing but it's not just lack of, you can give a child too much as a baby too.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    I am not going to claim to know how much it would cost.

    You decide who is eligible using household incomes with anything below the median given it.

    I reckon it would be pretty effective in helping working class children reach their full potential and making success in education based on intelligence rather than class.
    I more meant who within that means tested group get the opportunity.

    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I agree with your point that middle class children populating the good schools, however, I disagree with the point that the make up of the pupils is dependent on the quality of the school; I believe it is the other way around. I think the middle class and upper class parents push their children more which leads to children working harder in school because they want to learn; the schools adapt to fit the attitudes of the pupils.

    Countless research papers reveal social crime such as anti social behaviour, petty theft and assault is higher among the working class than the middle class. If external crime is higher among the classes it is reasonable to believe the behaviour of children in school is better among middle class children than working class children. It is no coincidence that the worst performing schools with the most behavioural problems are in areas dominated by working class people. The standards of schools in poorer areas will only improve when the poorer children change their attitude towards learning.

    I accept not all poorer children are naughty but the ring leaders are not dealt with quick enough which either causes other pupils to join in, or for the teacher to spend time punishing the pupil which impacts teaching time. Private schools are a special case as money is dependent on the child's behaviour. If the child misbehaves the child is quickly thrown out of the school, without going through the endless appeals that litter the state education sector, which wastes the parents money from the term's fees. Even pupils on a scholarship to the school have an incentive to behave properly as their place will no longer be available following bad behaviour. For the standards of school to improve the trouble makers needs to be given one warning for lesser acts with the second incident ending in permanent exclusion, serious acts are equivalent to two minor acts. The current model of inclusiveness, mixed sets, and restorative punishments does not improve the quality of schools in the country.
    Which way around the cause and effect is, or that they are both equally important is, ultimately, irrelevant since the final outcome is the same.
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    And they're in that situation not because all poor parents are horrible people, but due to their own lack of education. And the chicken + egg cycle continues.
    No, that cannot be the case as there are decent families who are poorly educated and well-educated people who are in troubled relationships, implying other factors influence poor family life where the bad behaviour stems from. If bad family life was the result of bad education the situation will not improve until the attitude of the poorer people changes to one where ambition, hard work, and success is fostered.
    (Original post by Aph)
    bold is complete nonsense, you are ignoring MH for one which is a massive factor, also it depends on what you mean by unruly. For instance I would suggest that chalenging the teacher is good and it's better then strict obedience.And again it is half nature half nurture in my book, attention is a big thing but it's not just lack of, you can give a child too much as a baby too.
    Children's charity Bernardo's agrees the bad behaviour of children mostly lies with poor family life, and reports also confirm the biggest causes of bad behaviour in children stems from lack of attention and bad parenting. Mental health is undoubtedly a contributing factor in some children but it is not the be all and end all of bad behaviour.
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    Are you wiling to support the Let us learn Campaign and what policies are willing to put forward to change the law preventing children who lived in this country under 18 and went to school in this country but are not given the right to government loan in order to go to university

    http://www.justforkidslaw.org/our-goals/let-us-learn


    What are the detail plans for the labour party in regards to these matters during the next 5 years and will any of the new leaders be willing to support these campaigns

    Thank you
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I more meant who within that means tested group get the opportunity
    All students Before the major exams e.g. 11 plus, GCSE and A-Levels or equivilents.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Children's charity Bernardo's agrees the bad behaviour of children mostly lies with poor family life, and reports also confirm the biggest causes of bad behaviour in children stems from lack of attention and bad parenting. Mental health is undoubtedly a contributing factor in some children but it is not the be all and end all of bad behaviour.
    First link didn't say that at all, it said "the very worse cases often have home difficulty" not that all misbehaving children come from bad homes as you are trying to suggest, there is also no evidence to back up that claim just supposition.

    Lack of attention yes, I have seen evidence for that but bad parenting? Isn't that the issue with today's society, to be a good parent you have to get 2/3/4 jobs to cover all the bills and sure you may have been stable when you had the baby but things can change quickly. Also if there is so-called 'bad perenting' does that not also suggest that there is 'good perenting' and if so why doesn't the state just take in all baby's and raises them?

    That leads to insecure attachments and exactly what you don't want. And lastly you didn't answer if you argree that children should be encouraged to challenge the teachers if they think that the teachers are wrong?
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    What is the percentage of Corbyn winning
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    (Original post by bigmansouf)
    Are you wiling to support the Let us learn Campaign and what policies are willing to put forward to change the law preventing children who lived in this country under 18 and went to school in this country but are not given the right to government loan in order to go to university

    http://www.justforkidslaw.org/our-goals/let-us-learn


    What are the detail plans for the labour party in regards to these matters during the next 5 years and will any of the new leaders be willing to support these campaigns

    Thank you
    Firstly you mentioned '5 years' so just to make sure let me point out this is the TSR Labour Party within the Model House of Commons not the real life UK Labour Party.

    On the issue you raise it looks like a very important one, I'm going to look into that right away and if there's an injustice that must be addressed my Party is always willing to step up to the challenge..
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Firstly you mentioned '5 years' so just to make sure let me point out this is the TSR Labour Party within the Model House of Commons not the real life UK Labour Party.

    On the issue you raise it looks like a very important one, I'm going to look into that right away and if there's an injustice that must be addressed my Party is always willing to step up to the challenge..
    sorry I thought it was the real party since Cambridge admission team are often here to answer questions. I thought this is the same for this thread. But please do look into it
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    (Original post by bigmansouf)
    sorry I thought it was the real party since Cambridge admission team are often here to answer questions. I thought this is the same for this thread. But please do look into it
    Ah well, a lot of us are RL party members just not ones with any power haha
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Ah well, a lot of us are RL party members just not ones with any power haha
    Sorry to be a pester, but if it's possible can you process my application?
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    (Original post by APlantinga)
    Sorry to be a pester, but if it's possible can you process my application?
    Not a problem, I understand and share you're impatience. I'm doing so right now. It depends how quick the moderators are tbh.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    First link didn't say that at all, it said "the very worse cases often have home difficulty" not that all misbehaving children come from bad homes as you are trying to suggest, there is also no evidence to back up that claim just supposition.

    Lack of attention yes, I have seen evidence for that but bad parenting? Isn't that the issue with today's society, to be a good parent you have to get 2/3/4 jobs to cover all the bills and sure you may have been stable when you had the baby but things can change quickly. Also if there is so-called 'bad perenting' does that not also suggest that there is 'good perenting' and if so why doesn't the state just take in all baby's and raises them?

    That leads to insecure attachments and exactly what you don't want. And lastly you didn't answer if you argree that children should be encouraged to challenge the teachers if they think that the teachers are wrong?
    Do not put words into my mouth, I said the situation at home is a major cause of poor behaviour in addition to the other things I listed. Lack of attention comes from bad parenting as the two are linked. Some parents have children as a symbol but the parents do not play with the children, read them bed time stories, spend time with them, talk to them, or show interest in their lives, the parents make food for their children and buy their children clothes or gadgets but ignore them; this is the lack of attention that causes bad behaviour in children who want to be noticed. I think we can state the parents who have children but do not want to embrace their roles as parents can be called bad parents, likewise the parents who smoke around their children, beat their children, sexually abuse their children, do not feed their children, and do not wash their children can also be considered bad parents; good parenting is the opposite.

    I did not see where that was written, but it is only right to challenge teachers on decision but there is a way to do it politely. Challenging teachers does not involve being disobedient, shouting out in lessons, being rude, swearing, throwing tables around, talking when the teacher is talking, or doing anything else disruptive. Challenging teachers is done by calmly and politely asking for a why behind a command given by a teacher while start to comply with the command. If a teacher decided to send a child to the headteacher's room the correct way to challenge the teacher would be to get up, walk towards the door, but politely ask the teacher on the way out for an explanation for the command given. If a pupil wanted to challenge the teacher during teaching time under the belief the teacher had stated something factually incorrect the pupil can raise a hand to ask a question about what has been written down in the work or on the board.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Not a problem, I understand and share you're impatience. I'm doing so right now. It depends how quick the moderators are tbh.
    Okay thanks!
 
 
 
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