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    (Original post by TheMagicRat)
    Giants-Cowboys was a crazy game. Cowboys really shouldn't have had a shot at winning it after all their turnovers and what an amazing effort by Bryant on the disallowed TD. I jumped out of my seat when he caught it. Shame he was a few centimetres out of bounds.
    You're right - it was a crazy game. As a Giants fan watching Bryant catch that and when the judges signalled for a TD, at 11.45, I didn't know what to do. But then, fingertips saved us for what should've been an easy game.

    SIX TURNOVERS. We should've scored 7 touchdowns. Although, we know if Eli, Cruz, Nicks etc have a bad day and we <i> still </i> win - we must be doing alright!
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    Guys Madden 13 thoughts should i buy it or not?!?
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    Not sure who to chose this week as your quarterback for Fantasy Football?

    Watch this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z8pg-D6I5o - it should help!
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    Patriots have released Sterling Moore, surprised it should have been Arrington but both were extremely poor. Hopefully our Safeties improve just a tiny bit for the next half of the season. Hernandez and Mankins coming back as well. Boston TE party needs to come back.

    Also Gronk is on course to repeat his stats he had last year. I don't think its wrong to say Gronk is up there with the best Tight ends ever...
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    (Original post by johnharris19944)
    I don't think its wrong to say Gronk is up there with the best Tight ends ever...
    Too early in his career to make such statements.
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    (Original post by Tokyoround)
    Too early in his career to make such statements.
    I guess but hes on course to repeat what he did last year and this is with more double teams because of a lack of Hernandez being utilized as a blocker more and a hip injury. Easily the best tight end in the league.
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    What do people think of the Talib trade to the Patriots? I think its a brilliant move by BB depending on how much we gave up. The dude has problems off the field but on the field hes a very good solid corner with potential elite ability.
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    (Original post by johnharris19944)
    What do people think of the Talib trade to the Patriots? I think its a brilliant move by BB depending on how much we gave up. The dude has problems off the field but on the field hes a very good solid corner with potential elite ability.
    NFL Network reporting that we gave up a 4th and got a 7th and Talib. He's only under contract until the end of this season, so I think it's a great trade. If he works out, we've finally got a useful player in the secondary. If not, he'll be cut in double time, and it's only a 4th rounder, which we throw around for fun these days.
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    (Original post by johnharris19944)
    I guess but hes on course to repeat what he did last year and this is with more double teams because of a lack of Hernandez being utilized as a blocker more and a hip injury. Easily the best tight end in the league.
    Tell that to Tony Gonzalez, who has missed just 2 games in 16 seasons as a pro.
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    (Original post by munn)
    Tell that to Tony Gonzalez, who has missed just 2 games in 16 seasons as a pro.
    Don't need to everyone knows the Gronk is the best tight end in the league right now Gonzalez was great but its Gronk,Graham and Hernandez time now
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    (Original post by johnharris19944)
    Don't need to everyone knows the Gronk is the best tight end in the league right now Gonzalez was great but its Gronk,Graham and Hernandez time now
    It's the Tom Brady effect.

    Vernon Davis and Tony G are the two best in the league, one has Alex Smith throwing to him and yet he still produces!!
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    (Original post by munn)
    It's the Tom Brady effect.

    Vernon Davis and Tony G are the two best in the league, one has Alex Smith throwing to him and yet he still produces!!
    Surely Alex Smith's game-management style suits tight ends? I also think Smith is being underrated still.
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    (Original post by munn)
    It's the Tom Brady effect.

    Vernon Davis and Tony G are the two best in the league, one has Alex Smith throwing to him and yet he still produces!!
    (Original post by shunter7634)
    Surely Alex Smith's game-management style suits tight ends? I also think Smith is being underrated still.
    I agree. Alex Smith is a good QB! He's not Peyton Manning, but he's no Brady Quinn either.

    Rob Gronkowski is the best TE in the league. Citing the "Tom Brady" effect isn't a great way of defeating that argument either. Troy Brown, Chad Jackson, Joey Galloway, David Patten. All receivers who spent considerable time catching passes from Tom Brady yet were never chalked up as greats, and in some cases complete busts. Yes you can still get production out of these guys, but only ever solid production. To achieve the amazing, mind-bending numbers of Moss, Welker, and Gronk, you need supreme talent.


    Jerry Rice wasn't an all-time great just because of the "Montana effect". Sure it helps, but you need supreme talent to really stand out. Gronk isn't just a bit better than the other tight ends in the league, he's utterly dominant. Much better numbers than the next TE (Graham), and Graham is the only TE on the team, Gronk has Hernandez to compete with.
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    (Original post by Authority_Song)
    I agree. Alex Smith is a good QB! He's not Peyton Manning, but he's no Brady Quinn either.

    Rob Gronkowski is the best TE in the league. Citing the "Tom Brady" effect isn't a great way of defeating that argument either. Troy Brown, Chad Jackson, Joey Galloway, David Patten. All receivers who spent considerable time catching passes from Tom Brady yet were never chalked up as greats, and in some cases complete busts. Yes you can still get production out of these guys, but only ever solid production. To achieve the amazing, mind-bending numbers of Moss, Welker, and Gronk, there is obviously supreme talent in these guys.


    Jerry Rice wasn't an all-time great just because of the "Montana effect". Sure it helps, but you need supreme talent to really stand out.
    Quite sad we've got a bye this week but time for us to get healthy and get the monster double headed TE duo back. Agree Gronk is easily the best TE in the league right now. Smith is no slouch probably in top 10 or bordering that quarterbacks in the league.

    Have you done any accumalators this week as well? I was one game off last week from winning 47 quid off a 50p accumulator...
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    Theoretically, it should be the other way round. Gronk's life isn't necessarily made easier by having Brady throwing to him but Brady's life is made a hell of a lot easier by being able to throw to Gronk. If you have a great receiver that you have faith in then the QB knows that he can put the ball in a certain area and he knows his receiver will get the ball more times than they don't. In short, a great receiver such as Gronk gives Brady a bigger margin for error.
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    (Original post by johnharris19944)
    Quite sad we've got a bye this week but time for us to get healthy and get the monster double headed TE duo back. Agree Gronk is easily the best TE in the league right now. Smith is no slouch probably in top 10 or bordering that quarterbacks in the league.

    Have you done any accumalators this week as well? I was one game off last week from winning 47 quid off a 50p accumulator...
    Two weeks ago I got 13/14 games on a handicap accumulator. The game I lost was the Giants. They missed the spread by 2 points. Would have won £4271. Feel for me


    I put a few on every week. Didn't win last week, but I should win about £50 this week hopefully.
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    (Original post by TheMagicRat)
    Theoretically, it should be the other way round. Gronk's life isn't necessarily made easier by having Brady throwing to him but Brady's life is made a hell of a lot easier by being able to throw to Gronk. If you have a great receiver that you have faith in then the QB knows that he can put the ball in a certain area and he knows his receiver will get the ball more times than they don't. In short, a great receiver such as Gronk gives Brady a bigger margin for error.
    It's a symbiotic relationship, as both are able to make great plays. Think Eli Manning in the superbowl on this play..




    Both an insanely accurate and clutch throw by Eli, and a fantastic grab by Manningham.


    No great QB exists without talent to throw to, and no receivers ever take off without a decent QB throwing them the ball.
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    (Original post by johnharris19944)
    What do people think of the Talib trade to the Patriots? I think its a brilliant move by BB depending on how much we gave up. The dude has problems off the field but on the field hes a very good solid corner with potential elite ability.
    Happy as a tampa fan we got something for him. He's been pretty miserable this year, lit up in the 4th quarter on multiple occasions even if it was partially the D-coordinators fault. Not particularly bothered to see him leave.
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    (Original post by Authority_Song)
    I agree. Alex Smith is a good QB! He's not Peyton Manning, but he's no Brady Quinn either.

    Rob Gronkowski is the best TE in the league. Citing the "Tom Brady" effect isn't a great way of defeating that argument either. Troy Brown, Chad Jackson, Joey Galloway, David Patten. All receivers who spent considerable time catching passes from Tom Brady yet were never chalked up as greats, and in some cases complete busts. Yes you can still get production out of these guys, but only ever solid production. To achieve the amazing, mind-bending numbers of Moss, Welker, and Gronk, you need supreme talent.


    Jerry Rice wasn't an all-time great just because of the "Montana effect". Sure it helps, but you need supreme talent to really stand out. Gronk isn't just a bit better than the other tight ends in the league, he's utterly dominant. Much better numbers than the next TE (Graham), and Graham is the only TE on the team, Gronk has Hernandez to compete with.
    Alex Smith is a system QB, with a great offensive mind leading the charge, there's a reason Harbaugh is trying to force Kaepernick into as many plays as possible, SF will never win a game where they ask Smith to go out and win it for them, they have to rely on the defense allowing Smith to keep within touching distance of victory

    As for the Tom Brady effect
    Wes Welker was a decent receiver in Miami who became a great receiver in NE
    Deion Branch was a great receiver in NE and went to Seattle where he was a poor receiver... then went back to NE and was great again.
    Randy Moss was a washed up receiver who went to NE and set records with Tom Brady throwing the ball then left and washed up again.

    And of course it's not just the fact that Tom Brady is great, being surrounded by the league's best talent means that Gronk can exploit far more one-on-one matchups, because if he's double teamed it means someone else (like Welker, Lloyd or Hernandez) is probably wide open.

    And your examples! Troy Brown is a poor example as he spent 15 years with the team and went from 200-400 yards per season to 800-1000 with Brady under center, Joey Galloway was 37 years old and spent one season at the Patriots, David Patten did similar, his 4 seasons as a Pat he amassed 749, 800 and 824 yards (the other season he played just 6 games). The only other year of his 12 seasons in the league that he managed over 250 yards he was catching passes from another future HoFer in Brees. Chad Jackson was a 6th stringer. No more needs to be said there. Can you name me a single receiver that has been anywhere near as productive before or after leaving NE as they were catching the ball from Tom Brady? Randy Moss' early years are obvious examples, but he blew all of them apart when he started catching passes in 07.

    I'm not saying Gronk is a bad player, but Vernon Davis is SF's only offensive threat (Crabtree is a #2 at best) in the passing game and he still produces again and again.
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    Hey guys, I'm just starting to appreciate American Football (), and had a question about the draft. Can a player "refuse" being picked by a certain team? Is that allowed or do they have to go to where they're chosen?
 
 
 
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