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NFL talk? Questions about American football? Watch

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    (Original post by Zubby77)
    Hey guys, I'm just starting to appreciate American Football (), and had a question about the draft. Can a player "refuse" being picked by a certain team? Is that allowed or do they have to go to where they're chosen?
    Not refuse exactly but they can voice displeasure. There is a lot of courting and wooing done especially for the top players, they already know where they're going before the night. See the whole Philip rivers and eli Manning fiasco for an example of players not liking where they went. Chargers used it to their advantage and traded Eli immediately for more picks.

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    (Original post by munn)
    Alex Smith is a system QB, with a great offensive mind leading the charge, there's a reason Harbaugh is trying to force Kaepernick into as many plays as possible, SF will never win a game where they ask Smith to go out and win it for them, they have to rely on the defense allowing Smith to keep within touching distance of victory
    Yeah Alex Smith is a game manager. So what? He's good at it. No he's not a 40 TD 4,500 yard passer, but he doesn't need to be, and won't get the opportunity with Frank Gore behind him. That said his career rating is only 78.8, but recently, i.e the last 4 years he has got better ever year, with year QB ratings going from 81.5 to 82.1 to 90.7 and this year 102.1! Now that he's finally on a decent team he has been doing great. Yes part of it is having Davis to throw to (as his most productive years line up with those numbers for Smith), but he has been managing games very effectively. Eli Manning has relied on his defense, so has Roethlisberger, so has Brady earlier on his career. They're still great QBs.

    (Original post by munn)
    As for the Tom Brady effect
    Wes Welker was a decent receiver in Miami who became a great receiver in NE
    Deion Branch was a great receiver in NE and went to Seattle where he was a poor receiver... then went back to NE and was great again.
    Randy Moss was a washed up receiver who went to NE and set records with Tom Brady throwing the ball then left and washed up again.

    And of course it's not just the fact that Tom Brady is great, being surrounded by the league's best talent means that Gronk can exploit far more one-on-one matchups, because if he's double teamed it means someone else (like Welker, Lloyd or Hernandez) is probably wide open.
    Welker wasn't decent in Miami. He never got a touch. He was an undiscovered talent that blossomed when actually given time (see: Drew Brees).

    Branch hasn't been the same since he left New England. See here for how similar his Seahawks and second stint Pats stats are.

    Moss got his act together. That's it. He was widely reported to be a slacker after his first few amazing seasons in Minnesota. Bouncing around teams, BB actually got him motivated. Now he's old.

    Tight Ends almost always have one on one match-ups, not just Gronk. That's the nature of the position. Actually watching the Pats will show you how often Gronk gets doubled, but it still doesn't matter.

    (Original post by munn)
    And your examples! Troy Brown is a poor example as he spent 15 years with the team and went from 200-400 yards per season to 800-1000 with Brady under center, Joey Galloway was 37 years old and spent one season at the Patriots, David Patten did similar, his 4 seasons as a Pat he amassed 749, 800 and 824 yards (the other season he played just 6 games). The only other year of his 12 seasons in the league that he managed over 250 yards he was catching passes from another future HoFer in Brees. Chad Jackson was a 6th stringer. No more needs to be said there. Can you name me a single receiver that has been anywhere near as productive before or after leaving NE as they were catching the ball from Tom Brady? Randy Moss' early years are obvious examples, but he blew all of them apart when he started catching passes in 07.

    I'm not saying Gronk is a bad player, but Vernon Davis is SF's only offensive threat (Crabtree is a #2 at best) in the passing game and he still produces again and again.
    Troy Brown - 1997 he recorded 41 catches for 607 yards and 6 touchdowns despite being behind both Terry Glenn and Shawn Jefferson" - quoted instead of rewording. That's a quality season. His solid numbers evident before Brady. He made one hell of a lot of big plays too.

    I'll give you Galloway, didn't think about his age.

    Patten - yeah, like I said great QBs help you out, but they're not everything.

    Chad Jackson was a first round pick with great talent. Despite having Tom Brady throwing him the Ball he still didn't produce. Lacked the effort and the heart of a true great though. He bounced around the league to bad QBs and still did no better, so I think it's fair to say that the QB wasn't very relevant in the success of this receiver.
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    Is anyone watching the Giants Steelers game? The refs are ****ing the game up so badly handing it to the giants.
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    Hurricane game, refs feeling sorry for NY its sad...
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    (Original post by Authority_Song)
    Yeah Alex Smith is a game manager. So what? He's good at it. No he's not a 40 TD 4,500 yard passer, but he doesn't need to be, and won't get the opportunity with Frank Gore behind him. That said his career rating is only 78.8, but recently, i.e the last 4 years he has got better ever year, with year QB ratings going from 81.5 to 82.1 to 90.7 and this year 102.1! Now that he's finally on a decent team he has been doing great. Yes part of it is having Davis to throw to (as his most productive years line up with those numbers for Smith), but he has been managing games very effectively. Eli Manning has relied on his defense, so has Roethlisberger, so has Brady earlier on his career. They're still great QBs.



    Welker wasn't decent in Miami. He never got a touch. He was an undiscovered talent that blossomed when actually given time (see: Drew Brees).

    Branch hasn't been the same since he left New England. See here for how similar his Seahawks and second stint Pats stats are.

    Moss got his act together. That's it. He was widely reported to be a slacker after his first few amazing seasons in Minnesota. Bouncing around teams, BB actually got him motivated. Now he's old.

    Tight Ends almost always have one on one match-ups, not just Gronk. That's the nature of the position. Actually watching the Pats will show you how often Gronk gets doubled, but it still doesn't matter.



    Troy Brown - 1997 he recorded 41 catches for 607 yards and 6 touchdowns despite being behind both Terry Glenn and Shawn Jefferson" - quoted instead of rewording. That's a quality season. His solid numbers evident before Brady. He made one hell of a lot of big plays too.

    I'll give you Galloway, didn't think about his age.

    Patten - yeah, like I said great QBs help you out, but they're not everything.

    Chad Jackson was a first round pick with great talent. Despite having Tom Brady throwing him the Ball he still didn't produce. Lacked the effort and the heart of a true great though. He bounced around the league to bad QBs and still did no better, so I think it's fair to say that the QB wasn't very relevant in the success of this receiver.
    The point I'm trying to make isn't that Tom Brady makes bad players good, Gronk is far from a bad TE after all, but he does enhance players far beyond most can, much like good receivers enhance their QBs (see Vernon Davis).

    Wes Welker had 2 seasons where he played all 16 games for Miami and didn't produce to that which he produced. Undiscovered talent? No, his talent was always there, but having a good QB to take advantage of that made all the difference.

    Deion Branch was the number 1 receiver in Seattle and he still didn't produce the stats he did when he went back to NE, he's managed more than 700 yards last year and the previous year, but managed that in only his first year in Seattle.

    Chad Jackson might have had great talent coming out of college, but that's not necessarily an indicator of success in the pros - and a good QB can't make a bad WR great, but they do make good ones better and great ones look awesome.

    80/82 QBRs are indicative of average QBing and not much more, 22 QBs in the NFL this season have a QB rating higher than 82. Alex Smith is a decent but nothing more QB. Harbaugh will likely attempt to supplant him asap
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    #TeachmehowtoDouggie

    250 and 4TDs, what a monster.
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    Muscle hamster!!!
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    I am having a dreadful year in fantasy football. 3-6 in both my leagues :facepalm2:
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    beeearsss!
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    Go Hawks!!!
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    (Original post by Bromers)
    Go Hawks!!!
    #12thman


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    I'm 5-5 in both my leagues. I missed both drafts, but auto-pick did OK and I've snagged a few studs off waivers. Doing OK I suppose.

    Pats are so frustrating. I can't really complain, after all we do win more games than everybody every year, but our crap defense has cost us two lombardis. Tom Brady could throw another 50 and we still wouldn't win it all with this revolving door of a secondary. Contrary to popular belief, sorting out some pass rush hasn't reduced the pressure on the DBs much.
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    Listen, have you ever watched the NFL, it's fantastic. On Sky, on Sky I tell you, it's fantastic. Sunday night 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock, two of the big games. Fantastic. Isn't it fantastic.
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    Looking forward to Pats-Colts tomorrow night, Brady-Manning usually saw an eventful match-up, I have a feeling Brady-Luck will provide the same.
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    (Original post by CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK)
    Looking forward to Pats-Colts tomorrow night, Brady-Manning usually saw an eventful match-up, I have a feeling Brady-Luck will provide the same.
    Wow...Colts got absolutely crushed by the Pats!
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    Anybody watch the two big games on Sky tonight? 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock. Fantastic.
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    Insane stats thrown up by Matt Schaub today, 527 yards for 5 TDs, wow!
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    Gronkowski broken forearm. I think a little bit of me just died inside when i heard that news... Why can't we just have Hernandez and Gronk healthy is that so much to ask?
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    So they benched Michael Vick for THAT guy?

    The problem isn't Vick!
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    (Original post by dgeorge)
    So they benched Michael Vick for THAT guy?

    The problem isn't Vick!
    He got injured not benched
 
 
 
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