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    (Original post by hp112)
    Don't entirely agree with any of these responses really.

    All the magic firms firms say you need a 2.1 at least and Freshies do say, in addition, that they expect at least a 2.1 in every year. Given their position in the market it's not really surprising that they do this.

    Don't agree at all with Jack's mannerism or his tone which is bloody condescending at best and at worst douchey - he sounds like a CC prat to me - but I have to agree (a little) with some of the content.

    I don't know of anybody even anecdotally who applied with a 2.2 and then got a Magic Circle training contract. Not saying it has never happened, but I think I'd say it's a pretty minute chance since the recruitment market now is absolutely fierce and magic circle firms are consistently cutting their intakes as well. At my college alone Freshies rejected all of my law class without interview - 2 with distinctions in Law Mods and the rest with great 2.1s. While I did have a Distinction in Mods myself I have to admit being a bit intimidated when I 'LinkedIn stalked' my future fellow Freshfields trainees!

    Anyway that's really just my two cents.
    All the best with the app though and I hope you get onto the workshop.
    Your second paragraph isn't accurate - they will take into account mitigating circumstance and there is at least one firm out of the five where you don't need a 2.1 even without them (where the training contract offer is not subject to gaining a 2.1 for those who haven't completed their degree).

    I know it isn't normal, and as I said when it does happen it is in extraordinary circumstances.


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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Your second paragraph isn't accurate - they will take into account mitigating circumstance and there is at least one firm out of the five where you don't need a 2.1 even without them (where the training contract offer is not subject to gaining a 2.1 for those who haven't completed their degree).

    I know it isn't normal, and as I said when it does happen it is in extraordinary circumstances.


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    That's not particularly accurate and I don't agree with your reasoning.

    I know a few firms don't actually have a 2.1 as an explicit condition in the TC offer letter itself - a few White Shoe firms and one MC firm.

    This is because they screen your grades at the training contract application stage before you even progress to interview . That does not mean that they have any trainees with 2.2s or that you don't need to be on track to get a 2.1 or better or that you're getting that TC offer without looking set to get at least a darn good 2.1 .

    Just because a firm doesn't make an offer subject to conditions like that doesn't mean they have a multitude or even any trainees with a 2.2. If it's a firm that specifies a 2.1 minimum pre-application then the firm likely thinks that it's just not simply necessary given the quality of 'trainees to be'. That's not at all the same as saying that you don't need a 2.1 get that offer.

    I interned with Sullican and Cromwell in New York last year and that is what a lot of WS firms do with their summer associates. That doesn't mean you get anywhere near their doors or the MCS with some stonking good grades.
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    (Original post by hp112)
    That's not particularly accurate and I don't agree with your reasoning.

    I know a few firms don't actually have a 2.1 as an explicit condition in the TC offer letter itself - a few White Shoe firms and one MC firm.

    This is because they screen your grades at the training contract application stage before you even progress to interview . That does not mean that they have any trainees with 2.2s or that you don't need to be on track to get a 2.1 or better or that you're getting that TC offer without looking set to get at least a darn good 2.1 .

    Just because a firm doesn't make an offer subject to conditions like that doesn't mean they have a multitude or even any trainees with a 2.2. If it's a firm that specifies a 2.1 minimum pre-application then the firm likely thinks that it's just not simply necessary given the quality of 'trainees to be'. That's not at all the same as saying that you don't need a 2.1 get that offer.

    I interned with Sullican and Cromwell in New York last year and that is what a lot of WS firms do with their summer associates. That doesn't mean you get anywhere near their doors or the MCS with some stonking good grades.
    I have never said there is a multitude of trainees with 2.2s, just that they are out there in very small numbers

    I know as I recruited enough of them over the years.


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    Okay guys this has been an interesting debate and everyone is entitled to their opinion (whilst I tend to agree with the guy saying 2:2s from a lower uni won't compete with the 2:1s/1sts from higher unis, I also agree that there can be rare times when those people get through for a good reason, plus yes he could have said it more gently, that's all down to the communication skills that are oh so important for this career)

    However I think we should get back on track now: what this thread is really about is questions about where to apply, how everyone else is finding the process, and finding out what firms have said to applicants who have already received feedback - it's invaluable for the rest of us

    So on that note: has anyone heard from either Simmons or Macfarlanes, and how did people find the situational judgement test for HSF? I've got the link to it but I'm nervous to commit to starting it (i did do the really long practice one on shl that they infuriatingly then did not give any feedback for)
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    (Original post by jacktc890)
    The trainees that I have met at Freshfields have very impressive academics. A*, IB 42+ galore, with great degrees - lots of top masters or 1sts - or at least undergrad from top universities. They're quite possibly the best corporate m&a firm in the country judging by the value of deals that they do. Given the epic competition for work experience/tcs, why the hell did you apply to a firm like that if you have a 2.2 undergrad degree from Essex Uni?
    Wow! What was the point in even writing that? It was a simple question.

    Considering that I graduated first in my class with a Distinction from Exeter in LLM International Commercial Law and just did a vacation scheme with Clifford Chance, and knowing the graduate team very well I thought that an extenuating circumstance would be not so much of a big deal, considering I have A's in everything else.

    Apparently you know best! I apologise!
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    (Original post by MzRay)
    Hi Guys,

    Anyone got the Clifford Chance non law winter workshop?

    They say you get an assessment day at the end of it so if anyone has previously done a CC assessment day. Please help

    I've done the CC assessment day. It is hard!

    But I can go through the whole process with you so you know exactly what to expect. I wish someone had helped me like that!

    I didn't stay calm and f*cked up - always stay calm!
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    (Original post by jacktc890)
    That kind of false moralism is just utter tosh and the fact that you are resorting to calling me stupid illustrates the weakness of your point.
    The reality is that firms like that do not accept people with 2.2s if you know of a Freshfields trainee, or even a MC trainee, with a 2.2 then please do let me know. I don't.

    I'm a trainee with another MC firm and I have a lot more experience of this process than someone like yourself applying for vac schemes with bugger all experience of anything.

    Freshfields expect a minimum good 2.1 every year not just overall and many trainees I met at BPP well exceeded that. It's utterly unrealistic. That's the truth.

    Good luck in getting a TC, with that kind of analysis you'll need it.

    Oh also I just finished the Intelligent Aid at CC and almost all of the trainees who got offers had 2.2's - one Oxford undergrad got rejected.

    There you go! Rude.
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    (Original post by TykeDragon)
    So on that note: has anyone heard from either Simmons or Macfarlanes, and how did people find the situational judgement test for HSF? I've got the link to it but I'm nervous to commit to starting it (i did do the really long practice one on shl that they infuriatingly then did not give any feedback for)
    HSF situational judgment is NOTHING like the SHL test - it is must easier! Only one line long. I really wouldn't worry. You'll breeze through!
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    (Original post by SophieLK)
    Oh also I just finished the Intelligent Aid at CC and almost all of the trainees who got offers had 2.2's - one Oxford undergrad got rejected.

    There you go! Rude.
    Yeah of-course they did Sophie CC are full of trainees with 2.2s..... and I'd bet my hat that the Oxford undergrad you made fun of has a damn sight better chance of getting a TC than a 2.2 Essex grad.

    And if that's the case and you've completed your undergrad and a postgrad degree, and a vac scheme at CC, then why don't you have a TC yet? Oh let me guess.....
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    (Original post by SophieLK)
    HSF situational judgment is NOTHING like the SHL test - it is must easier! Only one line long. I really wouldn't worry. You'll breeze through!

    Ahhh thanks that's a great relief!! I must admit I was sitting through that test thinking holy jesus each question is like 6 lines long :P do they really not time you at all? like could I do half the questions, leave and come back later once I've had time etc etc to think? It hardly seems strict!

    I also wished the SHL test had provided feedback - yes it gave me an expectation of the HSF test, but for all I know I chose all the wrong answers For what its worth if anyone can suggest whether I went wrong, where the questions and responses were generally as so: (I'll try and put a spoiler feature on to make it less long for those who don't want to see it, apologies if I fail at making a spoiler :P)

    Spoiler:
    Show

    You're new and helping a client, they're getting frustrated because they don't have time for you to go through all the admin and want you to just do it quickly for them, you know you should check with a manager to see if this is allowed but he is very busy. Should you:

    A) explain to them that it is very important to maintain security and proceed with the admin

    B) just do it for them as you want them to have a good experience and others are waiting

    C) disturb your manager to ask him

    I tended to go with B as most effective even though I feel it's probably not allowed, and C as least effective because it drags someone else who I know is busy into it - this is probably not a desirable type of colleague!
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    (Original post by TykeDragon)
    So on that note: has anyone heard from either Simmons or Macfarlanes, and how did people find the situational judgement test for HSF? I've got the link to it but I'm nervous to commit to starting it (i did do the really long practice one on shl that they infuriatingly then did not give any feedback for)
    Don't worry about the HSF tests. I passed them last year for the first year workshop, and they're really not that difficult, just a tiny bit dodgy. Besides, they simply have a % that you must attain to be moved onto the next stage rather than you being assessed all the other candidates taking the test.

    Also, would be great if people could actually provide constructive help on this thread rather than trying to absolutely crush other people's aspirations in the most rude and blunt manner.
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    (Original post by jacktc890)
    Yeah of-course they did Sophie CC are full of trainees with 2.2s..... and I'd bet my hat that the Oxford undergrad you made fun of has a damn sight better chance of getting a TC than a 2.2 Essex grad.

    And if that's the case and you've completed your undergrad and a postgrad degree, and a vac scheme at CC, then why don't you have a TC yet? Oh let me guess.....
    You obviously don't know my CC Intelligent Aid scheme is CV blind in its entirety,...they have no idea about any of your grades. On the CC website all three of the trainees in their recruitment video for the year 2013/14 had 2.2's. I got nervous on my case study interview. I got three offer's and one reject. It was annoying, but I encouraged to apply again due to gaining the highest mark in the WG and my great feedback - something I am doing.

    And actually I never made fun of that Oxford undergrad...he's now one of my best friends and the guy who put me in contact with Freshfields as he's their representative.

    You really do have some anger issues!
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    (Original post by Defragmentation)

    Also, would be great if people could actually provide constructive help on this thread rather than trying to absolutely crush other people's aspirations in the most rude and blunt manner.
    Agreed!
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    (Original post by SophieLK)
    You obviously don't know my CC Intelligent Aid scheme is CV blind in its entirety,...they have no idea about any of your grades. On the CC website all three of the trainees in their recruitment video for the year 2013/14 had 2.2's. I got nervous on my case study interview. I got three offer's and one reject. It was annoying, but I encouraged to apply again due to gaining the highest mark in the WG and my great feedback - something I am doing.

    And actually I never made fun of that Oxford undergrad...he's now one of my best friends and the guy who put me in contact with Freshfields as he's their representative.

    You really do have some anger issues!
    Check out your story first. CC have a 2.1 minimum cut off in all their offer letters, otherwise the offer is revoked so that's absolute tosh as well. I have 2 friends there who have confirmed that, one of whom is in that particular video so that is utter rubbish as well.

    Stop making stuff up and people might actually believe you. Three offers my a*se.
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    (Original post by jacktc890)
    Check out your story first. CC have a 2.1 minimum cut off in all their offer letters, otherwise the offer is revoked so that's absolute tosh as well. I have 2 friends there who have confirmed that, one of whom is in that particular video so that is utter rubbish as well.

    Stop making stuff up and people might actually believe you. Three offers my a*se.

    Haha you're literally too funny. Did they go through the Intelligent Aid competition? And were they graduates? Haha

    You ring up Aasha Tikwoo (creator of the Intelligent Aid and graduate recruiter) and ask!

    Oh and if you're talking and Jessica in that video, then yes. She got a first. The other two did not.
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    (Original post by SophieLK)
    Haha you're literally too funny. Did they go through the Intelligent Aid competition? And were they graduates? Haha

    You ring up Aasha Tikwoo (creator of the Intelligent Aid and graduate recruiter) and ask!

    Oh and if you're talking and Jessica in that video, then yes. She got a first. The other two did not.
    Hahaha this is funny. Thought all the CC trainees in the video got 2.2s Sophie? The other girl in the video went to Warwick and got a first as well according to linkedin, unsure about the third. I'm embarrassed for you.
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    PFO from Shearman & Sterling.
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    @Liarpoker sorry to hear that mate onto the next one though!! your turn will come

    @both of the people who reported on the HSF test, thanks guys, I feel a lot less nervous to take it than I did before now, I am most certainly not looking for the answers, but I'm wondering how you approached the most/least effective things. ie is disturbing 'busy managers/colleagues' (seems to feature heavily in these questions) usually your least effective? and which do you choose as more effective out of 'explaining to customers you have to do this for security/policy reasons and proceeding' or 'agreeing to do it the way they want it this time so they have a good experience' ? see i would have thought it was important to stick to the justified security reasons, but hey if I was told by a manager it was fine to give people one-offs for good experiences I'd understand that and would do it lol.
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    (Original post by TykeDragon)
    @Liarpoker sorry to hear that mate onto the next one though!! your turn will come

    @both of the people who reported on the HSF test, thanks guys, I feel a lot less nervous to take it than I did before now, I am most certainly not looking for the answers, but I'm wondering how you approached the most/least effective things. ie is disturbing 'busy managers/colleagues' (seems to feature heavily in these questions) usually your least effective? and which do you choose as more effective out of 'explaining to customers you have to do this for security/policy reasons and proceeding' or 'agreeing to do it the way they want it this time so they have a good experience' ? see i would have thought it was important to stick to the justified security reasons, but hey if I was told by a manager it was fine to give people one-offs for good experiences I'd understand that and would do it lol.
    I don't know whether you've done a vac scheme (?)but I drew on experiences from mine. I approached it by thinking am I able to attempt this on my own, and is I do so, would it actually be detrimental? Because you don't want to be constantly asking your supervisor on every little detail, you have to show some initiative. If would have been detrimental i.e. talking to the client directly etc. I said ask your supervisor or if they're busy ask other trainees/lawyers.

    I passed the threshold so I'm sure you'll be fine
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    (Original post by liarpoker)
    PFO from Shearman & Sterling.
    Sorry to hear, hope others go better. Was this for spring/summer or winter? Thanks
 
 
 
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