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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV watch

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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    You seem to be a little slow.

    How is it "defending" if you are invading?

    Defending is the Iron Dome. Invading is equal to attacking.
    you are obviously the slow one, the iron dome cannot pick off each and every palestinian rocket - so inevitabley the only solution is a ground invasion to clear out launch sites.

    in reality what hamas are doing are proving the only way israel can prevent rocket attacks is to go in again and fully militarily occupy gaza
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    (Original post by tehforum)
    Innocent deaths are part and parcel of modern warfare.
    It's part and parcel of warfare. But in modern warfare it shouldn't be with the poor ratios being observed.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    clearly then you are demonstrating the idiocy brought about by the islamist propaganda, thank you for demonstrating what i was talking about.if the rockets being filmed by all the news agencies are not being fired by hamas from within palestine, where exactly are they coming from, the red sea? a djinn in the clouds? quite shocking to see delusion to this extent, especially on what youd think to be a student forum. hamas is regarded a terrorist organisation by most of the west , plus some arab states believe it or not - or were you indoctrinated to not realise that either?

    israel havent been 'bombing indiscrimatley ( even tho if they did, they would only be copying the islamists) they have targeted in all cases hamas assets and points out of which they live/operate. if hamas or any islamist were anything less than cowardly rats, would they cower behind the shield of their civilian neighbours - it seems a few chants from the quran and you become blissfully ignorant to this fact - the power of propagnad
    Thankfully, I'm not a puppet. I like to decide for myself who is and is not a terrorist, and an organisation that gives 90% of it's funds to help built hospitals and schools is not comparable to the likes of Al Qaeda. I'd like to remind anyone that likening Hamas to aggressors is similar to calling a raped woman who slaps the rapist the aggressor. It's absurd. Hamas retaliated with rockets after Israel's military operation in June and early July which happened to arrest 350 Palestinians (including Hamas leaders) and kill 5 Palestinians, viewed by many as collective punishment after the kidnapping of the Israeli teenagers ( which Hamas deny having involvement in).

    Israel are bombing indiscriminately. You've yet to justify or answer why Israel killed four children on a beach, or why they bombed a disabled center? You seem to be dodging the majority of my points, please try not to do that.
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    (Original post by tehforum)
    Innocent deaths are part and parcel of modern warfare.
    Sadly it is but international bodies, e.g. UN should be a bit more active regarding the situation in Gaza and to reduce the risk of innocent casualties. After all, it was established to maintain peace in the world, surely attacking Palestine isn't a way to peace.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ultimately, the problem is that the west will idly sit by. I find it infuriating (or an approximation to being infuriated) how they condemn Russia based on allegations, but refuse to condemn Israel despite the obvious issues they're causing.
    This. Let's be honest, its called hypocrisy.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The Israelis hardly want peace either, if it were up to them there would be no Palestinians at all, and if there was peace they would slowly try to force them out anyway.
    thats not true!! many israelis believe in a two state solution and there is no reason why jews/israelis and palestinian muslims cannot live side by side in peace!!! however no democracy can cooperate with terorrists that want to kill jews...the current situation with the neighbouring counrties havent denounced terrorist organisations and thus there is war and conflict as THEY dont want peace!! i can assure you that if the terrorists put down their wepons and acknowleged a jewish state then of course their would be peace...however the mindset of the muslim extremes is to not have peace and to destroy israel....how can israel contend with these extremists and how can you then blame israel for there not being peace!?!?!?!?!?!?
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Well you can trawl through the Wikipedia page for the recent event if you like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_ki...aeli_teenagers

    For example: Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum called the kidnappers "heroes".

    Other than that, you must be joking or being deliberately obtuse if you're claiming that Hamas don't enjoy the deaths of Israeli civilians (why else would they throw rockets at them?).
    They "congratulated" the kidnapping, not the murder of the Israeli civilians.

    Open a timeline or better yet, learn the difference...

    I want the world to be free of medieval, barbaric law. I want people to be able to lead truly liberated lives in the 21st century.
    We've been over this many times. I don't have to point out to you how contradictory your ideals and the practical realties are.

    What a ridiculous question. Hamas don't understand liberal democracy, let alone believe in it. That aside, from a hypothetical perspective, if you are asking whether or not a revolution is worth it against a liberal democracy, if it is done in order to make it more liberal and more democratic, my answer would be generally "no", because the revolution has much more of a chance of screwing everything up that existed before. As for whether or not it would count as a genocide, I would still say yes, because it is the wholesale destruction of a good, free society (i.e. a genocide of ideas). Once a liberal democracy is established, the way to improve it is by civil debate, not violence.
    But you are replacing it with an even more liberal society. Are you saying your concept or ideal of a liberal democracy is limited to what you want it to be?

    They happen to be an organisation which wants to re-establish an Islamic caliphate in the Levant once Israel is destroyed. How on earth is that comparable to, say, being anti-abortion or pro-science? :confused:
    We have all these Caliphates rising up all over the place. Iraq, Syria and now you are claiming Palestine. What's to stop HAMAS from declaring an Islamic Caliphate, and then declaring Jihad on the Israeli State. Surely they would get more support from more Muslim countries?

    Why have HAMAS not declared themselves an "Islamic State of Palestine"?


    Do you hear that? That's the sound of your bonking theory in death throes...
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    (Original post by SMEGGGY)
    Israel because they are not allowed to live in peace by Palis because they do not want it to exist as a Country.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Are you sure that's not the Israeli Government?

    From the Likud Charter:

    "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. "

    "The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."

    "Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem."
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    The same way a preemptive strike can be used as a means of defense.
    But it's not defending. It's still attacking.

    You are claiming to use a shield but you are in fact using a sword.

    Even for you, how is that so difficult for you to comprehend?
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    (Original post by gideon123)
    thats not true!! many israelis believe in a two state solution and there is no reason why jews/israelis and palestinian muslims cannot live side by side in peace!!! however no democracy can cooperate with terorrists that want to kill jews...the current situation with the neighbouring counrties havent denounced terrorist organisations and thus there is war and conflict as THEY dont want peace!! i can assure you that if the terrorists put down their wepons and acknowleged a jewish state then of course their would be peace...however the mindset of the muslim extremes is to not have peace and to destroy israel....how can israel contend with these extremists and how can you then blame israel for there not being peace!?!?!?!?!?!?
    Erm I don't think you know how they feel...

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    (Original post by gideon123)
    thats not true!! many israelis believe in a two state solution and there is no reason why jews/israelis and palestinian muslims cannot live side by side in peace!!! however no democracy can cooperate with terorrists that want to kill jews...the current situation with the neighbouring counrties havent denounced terrorist organisations and thus there is war and conflict as THEY dont want peace!! i can assure you that if the terrorists put down their wepons and acknowleged a jewish state then of course their would be peace...however the mindset of the muslim extremes is to not have peace and to destroy israel....how can israel contend with these extremists and how can you then blame israel for there not being peace!?!?!?!?!?!?
    So, they believe in a two state solution, but given what happens in the west bank the Israeli government seems to have other ideas?
    Do you believe that the Argentinians should have the Falkland Islands back? Because their claim to the Falklands is the same as the Jew's claim to the state if Israel.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    you are obviously the slow one, the iron dome cannot pick off each and every palestinian rocket - so inevitabley the only solution is a ground invasion to clear out launch sites.

    in reality what hamas are doing are proving the only way israel can prevent rocket attacks is to go in again and fully militarily occupy gaza
    You haven't denied that Israel is attacking. Thank you for at least having the decency to be honest.

    There's hope that we can "de-brainwash" you from Israeli propaganda yet...
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    (Original post by Biryani007)
    Erm I don't think you know how they feel...

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    congratulations....you can pick out a minority of the views of jews/israelis in israel and then say that these views are representative of all israelis....generalisation at its finest
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    (Original post by GnomeMage)
    I support Israel because everyone has the right to defend themselves, including nazi germany.
    Israeli propagandists have clearly got to you.

    If you are invading another person's land, how exactly are you "defending"?

    If you want "defence" you have the ID for that...
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    (Original post by Maliha Ahmed)
    Sadly it is but international bodies, e.g. UN should be a bit more active regarding the situation in Gaza and to reduce the risk of innocent casualties. After all, it was established to maintain peace in the world, surely attacking Palestine isn't a way to peace.
    The fatal flaw with the UN is that they can't really do anything. Consider the security council, which is really the only thing that can actually sort out the problem, or at least calm it down, as far as the UN is concerned (and this applies to most issues, including Ukraine and all the things in the middle east). You have your permanent members with veto powers (China, Russia, UK, USA, France) and all you need is one member to veto it and that's it, debate over. Whenever anything NEEDS doing one of them will veto. Unsurprisingly, the USA vetoes quite a bit:
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    (Original post by gideon123)
    congratulations....you can pick out a minority of the views of jews/israelis in israel and then say that these views are representative of all israelis....generalisation at its finest
    What I'm saying is that they aren't all the way you are portraying them to be...
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    Israeli's cheer bombs falling on Gaza and threaten reporters:

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    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    Thankfully, I'm not a puppet. I like to decide for myself who is and is not a terrorist, .
    yes of course you do..:rolleyes:

    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    and an organisation that gives 90% of it's funds to help built hospitals and schools is not comparable to the likes of Al Qaeda. .
    have you seen a fully audited set of hamas accounts now? lol if they only keep 10% how do they afford all the houses that israel are bombing, and rockets are not cheap you know.

    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    Thankfully I'd like to remind anyone that likening Hamas to aggressors is similar to calling a raped woman who slaps the rapist the aggressor. .
    no i would liken hamas and islamists in general to be another rapist, who rapes other people then runs back to hide behind his wife and daughter.
    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    Hamas retaliated with rockets after Israel's military operation in June and early July which happened to arrest 350 Palestinians (including Hamas leaders) and kill 5 Palestinians, viewed by many as collective punishment after the kidnapping of the Israeli teenagers ( which Hamas deny having involvement in). .
    i would not accept any denial hamas make. they denied earlier this week of ever receiving egyptian cease fire plan, then actually formally rejected it a day later.


    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    Israel are bombing indiscriminately. You've yet to justify or answer why Israel killed four children on a beach, or why they bombed a disabled center? You seem to be dodging the majority of my points, please try not to do that.
    im pretty sure i answered all of them. israel are making targetted strikes, in amoungst one of the most densely popualted areas in the region. so there is bound to be casualties. hamas knowns this, thats why they fire rocket form amoungsgt their own population - becuase they win either way - A either israel is reluctant or restricted in returning fire. or B they return fire but kill civlians in the process, thus making more headlines for islamists to add to propaganda operations to spoon feed thick muslims in uk .


    and let me clarify , ALL islamists act in this way - they care not for civilian lives- hello , they deliberatly target cvilians, whether its hamas bombing israeli cities, al queda in europe or usa or the various other islamist groups in pakistan, afganistan chechnya, nigeria, somalia, ( the list is endless) islamic terrorism modus operandi is the same. And that really why noone wants to back a cause where islamists are involved or any with an islamic agenda, becuase they truly are the scum of the earth. they dont care about you- an average muslim- if they could they would stick a bomb up your batty and catapult you at the White House tomorrow. and im afraid the average muslim is so dumbed down by islamist propaganda, that youd probably smile and cop it too, waiting expectantly for your virgins in paradise, like all the islamist human sacrifices do.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So, they believe in a two state solution, but given what happens in the west bank the Israeli government seems to have other ideas?
    Do you believe that the Argentinians should have the Falkland Islands back? Because their claim to the Falklands is the same as the Jew's claim to the state if Israel.
    how can you blame the settlements in west bank in response to what is happening in gaza... the gaza strip was given to the arabs and there were scenes of jews being thrown out of their homes all over the media. the palestinians had the opportunity to build and increase the peace and start up a better relationship with israel....but what did they do??? they used the gaza strip to attack israel with greater force... it just shows how giving back land to terrorists is a useless cause so dont blame jews for they seting up settlements in the west bank
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    You haven't denied that Israel is attacking. Thank you for at least having the decency to be honest.

    There's hope that we can "de-brainwash" you from Israeli propaganda yet...
    i would deem it a counter-attack, in an attempt to attack the source of terrorism. would you have issue with the americans attacking bin laden as a source of terrorism?
 
 
 
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