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    (Original post by QE2)
    You'd be surprised. I predict that the leaders of the main UK parties will all make statements to that effect.

    Not to mention the overwhelming majority of Muslims, who are the ones who most need to address the issue.
    "we will defeat their poisonous and twisted ideology"

    Saddiq Khan, speaking a few minutes ago.
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    (Original post by Craig1998)
    Given the sheer amount of people that have died using this method, and how seemingly basic it was to create (no illegal weapons like bombs for the most part), I genuinely would not be surprised if similar attacks happen in public gatherings with easy access to roads.
    i had mentioned this beofre - ie Euro 2016 a week before had thousands of people on the streets, which was surely a target for ISIS, maybe they were scared of football hooligans punching them int he face, the Ultras? i i mean these people are the lowest cowardly scum anyway, they dont fight face to face with other men, they attack women and kids like rats - that is their ideology
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    (Original post by QE2)
    The only way to achieve this is to remove from the Quran all passages that can be interpreted as encouraging violence against those who refuse to submit to Islam. And accept that Muhammad was not the perfect role model and that he said and did some unacceptable things.

    However, no Muslim is going to agree to this, so the "misinterpretations" will continue.
    The Quilliam foundation's leader Majid Nawaz did come out and say that Muhammed was not perfect and criticised his marriage of a 9 year old, and I think it was a great feet to say such thing for Muslims in the West. I think he should start his own sect of Islam where Muslims belonging to it would be known as Liberal, forward-thinking and non-violent.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The thing is that the Koran itself, produced, after all, by a politically-motivated warlord trying to influence superstitious people to do his bidding, actually tells Moslems that it is complete and perfect and that interpretations are not allowed.

    Islam is, ultimately, doomed to be rooted in mediaeval politics. The only answer (which will not happen this century) is for educated people to abandon it and not indoctrinate their children into it
    The Quran does not say interpretations are not allowed, look into this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafsir
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    (Original post by the bear)
    anyone who can use scripture to justify killing children is damned to hell
    It is narrated by Sa'b b. Jaththama that he said (to the Holy Prophet): Messenger of Allah, we kill the children of the polytheists during the night raids. He said: They are from them. - Sahih Muslim
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    (Original post by QE2)
    It is narrated by Sa'b b. Jaththama that he said (to the Holy Prophet): Messenger of Allah, we kill the children of the polytheists during the night raids. He said: They are from them. - Sahih Muslim
    well Mr Jaththama is in Jahannam explaining his viewpoint to Shaitan. *
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    What does "Allahu Akbar" mean?
    I was under the impression that all Muslims say this as a matter of course, terrorist or not.*

    ***


    I am not "denying" anything. I just want the logic to be clearly spelled out i.e. what exactly constitutes a terrorist attack (as opposed to any other kind of attack), and how do we know this was one?
    the playing dumb tactic doesnt the achieve the apologist agenda you seek.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Horrific. *Just horrific.*

    I'm hearing the perp was of Tunisian descent.*
    And the Sandy Hook killer was of English descent.
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    I've noticed when there is a terrorist attack in the Middle East or a country that is less well known it's sort of ignored but when it's in such a well known country like France there's a huge amount of solidarity for the victims and the French people.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It may say that (and it doesn't actually quite say exactly that)
    I was paraphrasing, of course. But is does say:

    We did not leave anything out of this book. 6:38

    [Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

    The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
    6:114-5


    We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
    7:52

    i.e. It is complete. It may not be changed.

    This Koran could not possibly be authored by other than God. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe. 10:37

    i.e. It is perfect.
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    (Original post by inspiringtop123)
    And the Sandy Hook killer was of English descent.
    The difference is, the Sandy Hook killer wasn't doing it so he could have external sex in a supposed blissful afterlife promised by a book
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    (Original post by Chakede)
    i had mentioned this beofre - ie Euro 2016 a week before had thousands of people on the streets, which was surely a target for ISIS, maybe they were scared of football hooligans punching them int he face, the Ultras? i i mean these people are the lowest cowardly scum anyway, they dont fight face to face with other men, they attack women and kids like rats - that is their ideology
    It's not clear that this is IS yet, they haven't claimed responsibility (they would by now surely?)

    But I agree, the Euros is a much clearer target and would cause a large amount of devastation given how many nations are represented by fans in France. There's two ideas as to why not. First is that they wanted to wait for France to put it's guard down and give something serious and unexpected, it'd be clear that France would be prepared following the Charlie Hebdo and Paris attacks, amongst others. Secondly, the French may have been able to thwart any attempts by ISIS to create an attack during the Euros, and they just let their guard down for an attack like this.

    I don't think preparation could've prevented this though, Nice isn't an obvious target and lorries are free to buy anywhere if you have the license etc. The only thing that the French police could do is create a watch on potential terrorists, and the driver just wasn't on that list.
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    political correctness came about to protect against some previously unenlightened ( or ignorant) attitudes to different people. it must be said that it isnt all the vastly different races , ethnicities an cultures causing this problem in france, it stems from the uncontrolled spread of one form of ideology .
    I agree. However, 'political correctness' has now been taken too far; people need to stop saying that the attackers 'aren't real Muslims', and must realise that there is an issue with Islam and the way it is open to interpretation, and realise that those who commit atrocities in the name of Islam are Muslims, interpreting Islam in a valid way, instead of dismissing the problems Islam has. A problem needs to be recognized before it can be resolved.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    "we will defeat their poisonous and twisted ideology"

    Saddiq Khan, speaking a few minutes ago.
    But I bet he wasn't talking about Islam and all Muslims, was he. Do you think that he was calling Islam a "poisonous and twisted ideology"? No, of course not.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I was paraphrasing, of course. But is does say:

    We did not leave anything out of this book. 6:38

    [Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

    The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. 6:114-5


    We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe. 7:52

    i.e. It is complete. It may not be changed.

    This Koran could not possibly be authored by other than God. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe. 10:37

    i.e. It is perfect.
    Yes, the NT makes similar claims. Didn't stop it being interpreted and neither did the above within Islam, at least, traditionally.

    The trick was always to claim it wasn't interpretation, whilst interpreting, which is of course what Wahabism is.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    well Mr Jaththama is in Jahannam explaining his viewpoint to Shaitan. *
    But it wasn't Jaththama's opinion, it was Muhammad's. It is he who allowed the killing of children during raids on the disbelievers. And he can't possibly be in hell because he was the "best of creation", Allah's final messenger and prophet.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    But I bet he wasn't talking about Islam and all Muslims, was he. Do you think that he was calling Islam a "poisonous and twisted ideology"? No, of course not.
    If you are just taking an extreme anti-Islam position, you aren't going to help, as the situation is that this is a deep split within global Islam, with some taking an extreme position based on a particular school of thought. If you truly want that to change, you have to support other Muslims in changing it, which is very difficult for them actually, not least because of the hate and violence directed at those within Islam who do attempt to.

    Or we can just descend into our own modern version of the medieval holy wars, is that what you would prefer?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    But it wasn't Jaththama's opinion, it was Muhammad's. It is he who allowed the killing of children during raids on the disbelievers. And he can't possibly be in hell because he was the "best of creation", Allah's final messenger and prophet.
    as a Christian i would not entirely agree with your post.*
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    (Original post by Ladymusiclover)
    I've noticed when there is a terrorist attack in the Middle East or a country that is less well known it's sort of ignored but when it's in such a well known country like France there's a huge amount of solidarity for the victims and the French people.
    Yes.
    And I've noticed that when someone dies, neighbours often go to the funeral, but strangers from the next town don't.

    Weird, isn't it?
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    (Original post by Ladymusiclover)
    I've noticed when there is a terrorist attack in the Middle East or a country that is less well known it's sort of ignored but when it's in such a well known country like France there's a huge amount of solidarity for the victims and the French people.
    The truth is, big terror attacks are now always reported by mainstream media.

    The other truth is that we sympathise more with France because they are our cultural and political allies. What have Middle Eastern countries ever done for us, historically? We've long been enemies.

    That doesn't justify IGNORING terror attacks, but consider this:

    Someone in your town is mugged. You read the news, and say "oh, how awful" and you feel bad etc. But then the next day your next door neighbour is mugged. You feel more sorry for them, because you know them better and you like them.

    So mourn the French lives lost and mourn the loss of life in the other countries, but don't for a second try to make people feel bad. It's just common sense. It's not injustice.
 
 
 
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