D&D Religion's "Ask About Sikhism" Thread Watch

Suave
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med_lion

Are you able to elaborate on what philosophy Sikhism disagrees with from the Vedas?

Thanks.
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med_lion
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(Original post by Suave)
med_lion

Are you able to elaborate on what philosophy Sikhism disagrees with from the Vedas?

Thanks.
According to Hinduism, how i see it, you believe that the Vedas is eternal, and that Simritis, Puranas are the basics of Hinduism. In terms of Holy Scriptures, Sikhism ONLY accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. A quote is;


Except the Word of the Guru, all other word is false. False is the Word that is not the true Guru’s. False are the speakers, false are the hearers, false are those who speak and recite. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 917)


The next few quotes are directly about the Vedas and are quoted from SGGS;

You may stand and recite the Shaastras and the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny, but these are just worldly actions. Filth cannot be washed away by hypocrisy, O Siblings of Destiny; the filth of corruption and sin is within you. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 635)



O Pandit, O religious scholar, your filth shall not be erased, even if you read the Vedas for four ages. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 647)



He is beyond the world of the Vedas, the Koran and the Bible. The Supreme King of Nanak is immanent and manifest. ||4||3||105|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 397)



One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 747)



The mortal thinks about the Vedic teachings of the three gunas, the three dispositions. He deals in corruption, filth and vice. He dies, only to be reborn; he is ruined over and over again. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1262)



The Simritee is the daughter of the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny. She has brought a chain and a rope. ||1|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 329)



The Vedas and the Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 727)



The Simritees and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 920)


You may say that in the SGGS it says;
Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.
However, you must try to learn to read between the lines. During the time of Kabir Ji, muslims and hindus were speaking ill of each others' religious books and they asked Kabir Ji who was right. Kabir Ji replied with the above quote which can be translated as;
"Thinking under the influence of anger, do not call Vedas and Quran false. Try to understand the reality in a peaceful way and then say what you want to."


These are just a `few` of the quotes in SGGS regarding the Vedas. You try and say that Sikhism is basically Hinduism but infact there are many things that we do not agree with such as Idol worship, cow worship etc. I hope i have answered your question.
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ma2k5
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Where, in the sikh scriptures, does it state, that its from God and that Guru Nanak had God talk to him directly? Also, what attributes of the scriptures, confirm to you that it is from God. Thanks.
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med_lion
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DIVINE WORD CAME DIRECT FROM GOD:

Guru Granth Sahib does not narrate the life story of Guru Nanak, but each and every word is dedicated to the Glory of the Almighty God only. It is not a reproduction of earlier religions, but the Divine Word (Gurbani) came to the Gurus direct from God. Guru Nanak stated that it was not his philosophy, it was not his understanding and it was not his thinking, but the Word was coming to him direct from God and he was simply delivering His message to the world. As he confirms:

'O Lalo, as comes the Divine Word from Lord to me,
So do I narrate it.'
(Tilang Mohalla 1, p-722)

'I have said what Thou commandeth me to say.'
(Wadhans Mohalla 1,p-566)

This was repeatedly confirmed and emphasized by all the Gurus in their Bani such as:

'From God springs ambrosial Gurbani
The exalted Guru narrates and preaches the same to world.'
(Majh Mohalla 3, p-125)

'This Word comes from Him,
Who hath created the World.'
(Mohalla 4, p-306)

'This Word that hath come from God,
It dispelleth all woes and worries.'
(Sorath Mohalla 5, p-628)

'I speak but the Will of the Lord,
For, the Lord's devotee narrateth the Word of the Lord.'
(Sorath Mohalla 5, p-629)

'Whatever the Lord hath instructed me,
Hear, O my brother.'
(Tilang Mohalla 9, p-727)

The tenth Master, Guru Gobind Singh established the same truth that it was God's Word that was being revealed through the Gurus:

'Whatever the Lord sayeth to me
I say the same to the world.'
(Guru Gobind Singh)

The Janamsakhi (biography) reveals that Guru Nanak many times said to his minstrel Mardana, "Mardana, start playing the rebec, Gurbani (Divine Word) is coming." And the Divine Word was then recorded. That Divine Word is GURBANI- Guru Granth Sahib.
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USingh
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(Original post by ma2k5)
Where, in the sikh scriptures, does it state, that its from God and that Guru Nanak had God talk to him directly? Also, what attributes of the scriptures, confirm to you that it is from God. Thanks.
Hi again, yeah its talked of quite a few times, heres one example

“O Gursikhs(Sikhs of the Guru)! Know that the Baani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it."
-308

and there's also
"I myself know not what to say; all I speak is what the Lord commands."
-763
And more throughout. For me Guru Granth Sahib Ji is from God because I believe that Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj to Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj all knew God and were sent by God himself, God is so great that no one other than he(or she lol) who is one with him can talk of him. For that reason I believe the praise of Vaheguru in Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only perfect and complete praise (no offence).
"The Divine Scripture (Sri Granth Sahib) is the meeting place where one can meet the Transcendent Lord God."
-1226
Because according to Sikhi Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only way of meeting God, then in a Sikh's mind there is no way it can't be from God.

Hope that helped
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USingh
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lol I just realised you posted while I was making the post. It's like we're competing now :P

anyway off to Gurdvara for a youth session
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ma2k5
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Thanks guys
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med_lion
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no problemo
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Suave
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(Original post by med_lion)
According to Hinduism, how i see it, you believe that the Vedas is eternal, and that Simritis, Puranas are the basics of Hinduism. In terms of Holy Scriptures, Sikhism ONLY accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. A quote is;


Except the Word of the Guru, all other word is false. False is the Word that is not the true Guru’s. False are the speakers, false are the hearers, false are those who speak and recite. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 917)


The next few quotes are directly about the Vedas and are quoted from SGGS;

You may stand and recite the Shaastras and the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny, but these are just worldly actions. Filth cannot be washed away by hypocrisy, O Siblings of Destiny; the filth of corruption and sin is within you. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 635)



O Pandit, O religious scholar, your filth shall not be erased, even if you read the Vedas for four ages. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 647)



He is beyond the world of the Vedas, the Koran and the Bible. The Supreme King of Nanak is immanent and manifest. ||4||3||105|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 397)



One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 747)



The mortal thinks about the Vedic teachings of the three gunas, the three dispositions. He deals in corruption, filth and vice. He dies, only to be reborn; he is ruined over and over again. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1262)



The Simritee is the daughter of the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny. She has brought a chain and a rope. ||1|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 329)



The Vedas and the Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 727)



The Simritees and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 920)


You may say that in the SGGS it says;
Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.
However, you must try to learn to read between the lines. During the time of Kabir Ji, muslims and hindus were speaking ill of each others' religious books and they asked Kabir Ji who was right. Kabir Ji replied with the above quote which can be translated as;
"Thinking under the influence of anger, do not call Vedas and Quran false. Try to understand the reality in a peaceful way and then say what you want to."


These are just a `few` of the quotes in SGGS regarding the Vedas. You try and say that Sikhism is basically Hinduism but infact there are many things that we do not agree with such as Idol worship, cow worship etc. I hope i have answered your question.
I appreciate the effort you have put in here, but you haven't answered the question. There isn't anything here in which it shows clearly what aspects of Vedic philosophy Sikhs disagree with. For example, karma and reincarnation are all aspects of philosophy from the Vedas which we both agree on. Do you understand what I mean by "philosophy"? There isn't anything of real substance from what you have written which clearly explains what Sikhs disagree with from within the Vedas. Things such as "idol worship" aren't an aspect of philosophy from within the Vedas, the Vedas don't talk about idol worship-they are a ritual.

Oh and also, it is a Vedic teaching that reading/reciting the Vedas will not grant liberation. So a lot of what you have written, ironically, is exactly the same as Hindu philosophy.

If you could go in detail on the difference in philosophy then that would be great. Thanks.
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Suave
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Another question. Are Sikhs supposed to celebrate Raksha Bandhan? I ask because I have Sikh friends who tie rakhis on their brothers.

Thanks.
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USingh
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It's funny talking with Hindutva types and I've got some time to kill so I'll answer you on this one.

Gurbani states not to believe in them therefore they are not compatible with Gurmat (Guru Ji's philosophy). We reject the scriptures outlining a philosophy, so we reject the philosophy. Do you understand what I mean by "reject it"?. There was no more need for Guru Sahib to say anything on the matter as it would simply be a waste of time, he didn't write he rejects them for the fun of it but because we don't believe in what they say. How hard is that to accept or understand?
Sikhi is simply a seperate faith, it beleives in neither the Vedas or the semetic texts, asking someone to list the differences between Sikhi and Vedic philosophy is just asking for an explanation of the whole religion. You want to know that then read Gurbani, the be all and end all of Gurmat. 1430 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji +Dasam Granth+Bhai Gurdas Vara+Bhai Nand Lal's writings are Sikh philosophy, that is not going to get compressed into a post on thestudentroom.

And no, what med_lion has quoted is not in line with Vedic philosophy. As you stated yourself some time earlier in this thread the reason for this is that one should not get caught up in scriptures and that experiencing God is most important. Sikhi says it because we don't believe in what they say, kind of a difference.
In fact on that note our equalivent of scriptures would be Gurbani, and in fact we are told that reading Gurbani is infact experiencing God, that immersing one self in Gurbani is what will unite us with him.

On Raksha Bandhan, Punjabis tie rakhris/rakhis. Those punjabis who also align themselves with the Sikh faith that celebrate rakhsa bandhan do so for cultural reasons. Orthodox/baptised Sikhs generally won't.
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Suave
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Again, I appreciate the effort you have put in here but you're really not addressing the crux of the issue. You say you "reject" the Vedas, but there is a reason correct? You don't reject the Vedas for no reason right? If you reject them for no reason then the act of rejecting them means nothing. So, I am asking, why do you reject them. There must be something within the Vedas which Sikhs disagree with. So far, no one here has the answers.

No, I don't need an explanation of "the whole religion" nor do I need to "read the Gurbani". For example, if I asked what Islam disagrees with from the Vedas, they'd say reincarnation and karma etc. Not difficult, it's a clear and simple list. I don't need to read the Quran to know that, nor is it explaining the "whole religion". Now if no one here can provide a simple and clear list about what it is that they disagree with from the Vedas, then it's pretty clear what is going on here...

And yes, what med_lion has quoted is in line with Vedic philosophy. It's evident that you don't understand Vedanta and this is the problem here. "Sikhi says its because we don't believe in what they say"...well tell me exactly what it is you don't believe in? This is what I am asking from day one. Reincarnation? No...karma? No...belief in one God? No...devotion and reciting God's name as much as you can? No. So let's see it, what is it that you don't believe which the Vedas do say you should believe in?
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med_lion
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(Original post by USingh)
It's funny talking with Hindutva types and I've got some time to kill so I'll answer you on this one.

Gurbani states not to believe in them therefore they are not compatible with Gurmat (Guru Ji's philosophy). We reject the scriptures outlining a philosophy, so we reject the philosophy. Do you understand what I mean by "reject it"?. There was no more need for Guru Sahib to say anything on the matter as it would simply be a waste of time, he didn't write he rejects them for the fun of it but because we don't believe in what they say. How hard is that to accept or understand?
Sikhi is simply a seperate faith, it beleives in neither the Vedas or the semetic texts, asking someone to list the differences between Sikhi and Vedic philosophy is just asking for an explanation of the whole religion. You want to know that then read Gurbani, the be all and end all of Gurmat. 1430 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji +Dasam Granth+Bhai Gurdas Vara+Bhai Nand Lal's writings are Sikh philosophy, that is not going to get compressed into a post on thestudentroom.

And no, what med_lion has quoted is not in line with Vedic philosophy. As you stated yourself some time earlier in this thread the reason for this is that one should not get caught up in scriptures and that experiencing God is most important. Sikhi says it because we don't believe in what they say, kind of a difference.
In fact on that note our equalivent of scriptures would be Gurbani, and in fact we are told that reading Gurbani is infact experiencing God, that immersing one self in Gurbani is what will unite us with him.

On Raksha Bandhan, Punjabis tie rakhris/rakhis. Those punjabis who also align themselves with the Sikh faith that celebrate rakhsa bandhan do so for cultural reasons. Orthodox/baptised Sikhs generally won't.

Laughing My Ass Off.
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med_lion
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Suave, the quotes that i posted show that Sikhs "reject" the Vedas..hence who cares what "philosophy" from the Vedas Sikhism disagrees with. Just to name some...men are of a higher "standard" in Hinduism than women. Another is the caste system. But the biggest "philosophical error" the Vedas gives is that there are 33 millions Gods! Let alone the other teachings of the Vedas, if the main "teaching" is incorrect then why even bother to look at what Sikhism disagrees with from the Vedas.
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med_lion
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(Original post by Suave)
Again, I appreciate the effort you have put in here but you're really not addressing the crux of the issue. You say you "reject" the Vedas, but there is a reason correct? You don't reject the Vedas for no reason right? If you reject them for no reason then the act of rejecting them means nothing. So, I am asking, why do you reject them. There must be something within the Vedas which Sikhs disagree with. So far, no one here has the answers.

No, I don't need an explanation of "the whole religion" nor do I need to "read the Gurbani". For example, if I asked what Islam disagrees with from the Vedas, they'd say reincarnation and karma etc. Not difficult, it's a clear and simple list. I don't need to read the Quran to know that, nor is it explaining the "whole religion". Now if no one here can provide a simple and clear list about what it is that they disagree with from the Vedas, then it's pretty clear what is going on here...

And yes, what med_lion has quoted is in line with Vedic philosophy. It's evident that you don't understand Vedanta and this is the problem here. "Sikhi says its because we don't believe in what they say"...well tell me exactly what it is you don't believe in? This is what I am asking from day one. Reincarnation? No...karma? No...belief in one God? No...devotion and reciting God's name as much as you can? No. So let's see it, what is it that you don't believe which the Vedas do say you should believe in?


Dude, you think you are clever with words? We don't like to just list things but would like to provde sufficient quotes to back things up. But i would like to annouce one thing for sure MATE:

..the reason there is Hinduism today is because the 9th Sikh Guru gave His head for YOUR religion. If it wasn't for His sacrifice then there would only have been Islam and Sikhism today "without" Hinduism... :eek:
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Suave
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(Original post by med_lion)
Suave, the quotes that i posted show that Sikhs "reject" the Vedas..hence who cares what "philosophy" from the Vedas Sikhism disagrees with. Just to name some...men are of a higher "standard" in Hinduism than women. Another is the caste system. But the biggest "philosophical error" the Vedas gives is that there are 33 millions Gods! Let alone the other teachings of the Vedas, if the main "teaching" is incorrect then why even bother to look at what Sikhism disagrees with from the Vedas.
Ah-hah...and herein lies the confusion. To clarify your stance (I use 'Vedanta' as a synonym for 'Hinduism'):

1) Men are not of a higher standard in Vedanta
2) Caste system is an Indian social phenomenon, not Vedanta
3) There is one God, not 33 million (lol) in Vedanta

I hope you are able to re-evaluate your position with a clear mind.

Thanks.
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Suave
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(Original post by med_lion)
Dude, you think you are clever with words? We don't like to just list things but would like to provde sufficient quotes to back things up.
I still await these quotes on different teachings young man.

But i would like to annouce one thing for sure MATE:

..the reason there is Hinduism today is because the 9th Sikh Guru gave His head for the YOUR religion. If it wasn't for His sacrifice then there would only been Islam and Sikhism today "without" Hinduism... :eek:
Why reduce the level of discussion to playground antics? I appreciate Guru Gobind Singh, he was a great man and I look at him as an inspiration/role model. Why are you side tracking? Can you not stay on topic? Keep up now.
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med_lion
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So the point you are trying to make is that Hindusism = Sikhism...thats how i see it...
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Suave
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I have yet to see any differences in teachings/philosophy/beliefs
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ma2k5
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(Original post by Suave)
I have yet to see any differences in teachings/philosophy/beliefs
You like a lil oil on the fire don't ya :p:
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