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    (Original post by merrill)
    I never said they were published, and I can't be bothered finding out if they have been. But all militaries carry out ammunition counts, more for logistical benefit than for journalists.
    I'm not denying that.

    All I'm asking, because you posted that figure 30,000 rockets, is where is the data for the rockets/shells fired by Israel?

    Why don't they publicize that figure? In fact, if you wanted to be a neutral (are you a neutral?), then you would post both figures - the rockets fired by Israel and Palestinians, shouldn't you?

    Source? I do it myself, im an reservist officer. Then I pass it up the chain of command.
    Irrelevant to the discussion but good on you.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Given the fact that a lot of civilians have been killed by the Israeli's, one would assume the life expectancy to decrease, no?
    Not really. About 1,500 people have died in Gaza out of 1.5 million. From a statistical point of view that is negligible. The point of the statistic (and the one about infant mortality rates) is that people seem to think of Gaza as an "open prison" where no food is getting in and no medicines. This would leave people starving and dying in the streets en masse. The reality is not like that at all.

    (Original post by shahbaz)
    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/arn...et-sail-again/

    Read the part about the Naval blockade of Gaza, these same ships are used to kill children playing on the beach.
    So, in fact, you were speaking nonsense before because the article you cite talks about a planned flotilla which of course does not mention anything about a past flotilla being blown up.
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    [QUOTE=SyedAreYouDumb;49015114]
    (Original post by merrill)
    30 000 rockets fired at Israel. If they didn't have the iron dome, there would be far more dead Israeli civilians.

    Iron dome's effectiveness is disputed by many military experts. Whilst Israel is happy to give statistics about the effectiveness, they (the experts) suggest that it is more like 5-10% sucessful which puts the hamas rockets into perspective; surely their rockets are useless otherwise there certainly would be more israeli deaths.
    Sources include: Huffington Post and Al Jazeera (albeit fairly biased)

    Anyway the blockade means that Israel can decide what goes in and out meaning they could easily dismiss essentials which i am certain they do. What gives Israel the right to control another country even if zionist illegal expansion has effectively cut Palestine in half.
    I don't know much on the effectiveness of the Iron Dome, so I shall look into it. But "effectiveness" has many different meanings to different people. I would say the Iron Dome is effective if the missile is completely and utterly destroyed, others would say it is effective if the missile is persuaded into a different direction, away fro civilian areas.

    Its also worth noting the tunnels, plus the border with Eygpt and Lebanon, both of which have many smuggling routes.

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    (Original post by Clip)
    That's the crux of it, isn't it? They don't want them there and never have. Just like the Arabs and Iran don't want Israel there.

    As for being second class - that sucks, but it's not like they're worse off in Gaza than they would be as regular citizens of Jordan or Syria.

    Do they use violence? Absolutely. Is it wrong? Usually. But ask yourself where the choices are. Hamas is committed to destroying Israel, and the way to do that is to entice the Israelis into killing as many Palestinians as possible, and hopefully triggering a war.

    What Arabs, Iranians, and the so-called world-wide brotherhood of Muslims hate so much is that Israel plays hardball. You mess with them, they put you down. They're not like Europeans or the UN who have dialogue and sanctions and meetings - they will just go out and knock you out and drag you out. Arabs aren't used to that. Arabs are used to pushing, posturing and doing all the agitating without actually getting beated down - hence the shock that Saddam Hussein experienced in both Gulf Wars.

    Probably the same reason they hate the Americans so much. They want to cause trouble and talk big without having to prove it.

    Is it a good thing? Not really. It is what it is. As a region, everyone is messed up. The ordinary people of Israel and Gaza don't want to bomb or be bombed, but there are enough people there who are going to fire rockets and fire artillery and fast jets that there's never going to be a resolution. Everytime peace gets close, someone will be ready to launch a rocket or car bomb, or build a new illegal settlement.
    Dude, they are much worse off in Gaza you know how many people died in their homes?

    Do you think Hamas can do anything is wants it is the under dog here and what if I told you hamas would agree to a cease fire if the blockade on Gaza was lifted.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    haha you love conspiracy stories on youtube. Clever girl, have a biscuit.




    Muslims kill that many in a day, globally lol. Jews never stole anything. You could say the same about the USA and red indians. When will you people learn?!
    are you saying millions of jews from europe did not go to the middle east after being given some else land
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    (Original post by shahbaz)
    So you do agree with my other comments that Israel is not really that liberal.

    Tbh hamas has nothing it is just fighting now to defy Israel.
    Not liberal as I'd like it to be, but more liberal than many of its neighbours.

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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Not really. About 1,500 people have died in Gaza out of 1.5 million. From a statistical point of view that is negligible. The point of the statistic (and the one about infant mortality rates) is that people seem to think of Gaza as an "open prison" where no food is getting in and no medicines. This would leave people starving and dying in the streets en masse. The reality is not like that at all.



    So, in fact, you were speaking nonsense before because the article you cite talks about a planned flotilla which of course does not mention anything about a past flotilla being blown up.
    It was but this was in 2010 so I didn't give you the ink still want it?
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    (Original post by MASTER265)
    There are various areas of agriculture in the region and Hamas has designated zones where they could easily station their rockets however they chose to harbour them in schools, UN hospitals and very densely populated areas.

    I must say the support people like you give to Hamas begs the question- who's side are you really on in the fight against terrorism? I can't help but think you would aide them
    Where did I once state that I support Hamas?

    I'm not on any "side". That's childish playground nonsense. Clearly, you've picked yours. "Fight against terrorism" is a meaningless statement, given that you can't fight against a tactic.

    "They chose to harbour them in schools, UN hospitals and very densely populated areas". Can you support this assertion with a credible peer-reviewed academic source?

    An overwhelming amount of evidence illuminates who the aggressor is in this conflict.
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    (Original post by merrill)
    Not liberal as I'd like it to be, but more liberal than many of its neighbours.

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    I mean you could say its on par with Iran.
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    (Original post by shahbaz)
    I mean you could say its on par with Iran.
    You can be gay in Israel without being put to death.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    You can be gay in Israel without being put to death.
    But you are forced to join the IDF and kill civillians. So i say its on par.
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    (Original post by CJKay)
    What, exactly, does this have to do with Islam other than the fact that Hamas are using it to justify attacking Israel? Israel dislike Arabs as a whole, seemingly no matter their religion.
    Oh Yes, Mohammed never had any conquests for land and power

    LOL The hypocrisy of these Muslims is too much.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    I'm not denying that.

    All I'm asking, because you posted that figure 30,000 rockets, is where is the data for the rockets/shells fired by Israel?

    Why don't they publicize that figure? In fact, if you wanted to be a neutral (are you a neutral?), then you would post both figures - the rockets fired by Israel and Palestinians, shouldn't you?



    Irrelevant to the discussion but good on you.
    I am neutral, I said I don't have the figures. Down to a mixture of laziness and probability of them not being published till after the conflict is over. Its worth noting that 30 000 missiles were fired BEFORE the most recent outbreak of conflict, not during. So actually, I don't have figures for either side on the ammunition expenditure of the current conflict. But they will be published at some point.

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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    Don't insult Sharon, he and Menachem Begin and Moshe Dayan were heroes. Natanyahu is too diplomatic and bit of a lefty for a Likud member.
    can't believe someone defending sharon! He murdered palestinians. The was wanted on trial for war crimes! How can he be a hero?
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    (Original post by Suetonius)

    An overwhelming amount of evidence illuminates who the aggressor is in this conflict.


    Indeed.

    Israel withdraws from Gaza.

    Hamas respond with rockets.
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    (Original post by shahbaz)
    But you are forced to join the IDF and kill civillians. So i say its on par.
    No. No IDF soldier is forced to kill a civilian. They do so under their own will, or by accident.

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    (Original post by CJKay)
    What, exactly, does this have to do with Islam other than the fact that Hamas are using it to justify attacking Israel? Israel dislike Arabs as a whole, seemingly no matter their religion.
    the conflict is caused by zionists, islam is a zionists worst enemy,.thats another issue in itself. Israel took land that didnt belong to them and claimed it as their own, hamas is just a bullcrap excuse to enable this whole conflict to continue. 'seemingly' trust me nothing is ever as it seems, espesh with media which controls the information you have access to. The israeli zionists have a hatred for muslims, most of the arab population is muslim, the few that arent wont matter to them, they are 'colatteral damage'.

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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Not really. About 1,500 people have died in Gaza out of 1.5 million. From a statistical point of view that is negligible.
    Carry on for a little longer and it will become the norm. Nearly half of Gaza's population is under 14.

    The point of the statistic (and the one about infant mortality rates) is that people seem to think of Gaza as an "open prison" where no food is getting in and no medicines. This would leave people starving and dying in the streets en masse. The reality is not like that at all.
    Is it not? Do prisoners not get food and medicine reluctantly?
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Indeed.

    Israel withdraws from Gaza.

    Hamas respond with rockets.
    When did Israel "withdraw from Gaza"? They clearly haven't!
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    (Original post by shahbaz)
    I mean you could say its on par with Iran.
    No, better than Iran. Still not at an acceptable level, but neither do I claim that we and the USA (especially the USA) are perfect liberals.

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