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    (Original post by Zaki)
    Truth is Immovable! - Unchangeable! - Unconquerable!
    Case in point.
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    (Original post by Aleandcynicism)
    Case in point.
    If Truth could be altered - however minutely - by the will of man, or indeed ANYTHING, it would not be Truth. If ANYTHING could prevail against Truth, it would not be Truth.
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    If Truth could be altered - however minutely - by the will of man, or indeed ANYTHING, it would not be Truth. If ANYTHING could prevail against Truth, it would not be Truth.
    It is true that my phone is on my desk. I have now moved it off my desk. I, a human, have altered truth as it is now not true that my phone is on my desk.

    Problem?
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    (Original post by Aleandcynicism)
    It is true that my phone is on my desk. I have now moved it off my desk. I, a human, have altered truth as it is now not true that my phone is on my desk.

    Problem?
    Don't be silly! Truth - rather than merely a truth - is the fundamental Nature of Existence. And is unalterable!
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    You recognise the existence of Free Will (which you claim exists in your environment and dictates your actions) - you just refuse to accept that it exists in you, even though you admit it appears to be. So, it is YOU who is asserting that you have no Free Will - which can ONLY be done by one with Free Will.

    All that's going on here is that you loathe having to take responsibility FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR OWN ACTIONS. And would rather claim that you're just a puppet on a string if that's what it takes to avoid such responsibility. How sad.
    I do take responsibility in my actions, because the factors affecting my choices include my own experiences.
    i don't believe anything happens by chance, nothing in nature happens at random, just like the inner workings of our brain doesn't happen at random. We are made up by matter and energy, and so the laws of physics that apply in the universe around us should apply in our bodies as well. Every cause has an effect, every action we make is reacted by a stimulus...If you were to drink because you were thirsty, you might think you made the choice to drink.. well you did, but the osmoreceptors in your brain detected a low water potential, then your past experience in drinking reminded you that drinking re leaved this effect.. and etc
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    (Original post by Alexok)
    I do take responsibility in my actions, because the factors affecting my choices include my own experiences.
    i don't believe anything happens by chance, nothing in nature happens at random, just like the inner workings of our brain doesn't happen at random. We are made up by matter and energy, and so the laws of physics that apply in the universe around us should apply in our bodies as well. Every cause has an effect, every action we make is reacted by a stimulus...If you were to drink because you were thirsty, you might think you made the choice to drink.. well you did, but the osmoreceptors in your brain detected a low water potential, then your past experience in drinking reminded you that drinking re leaved this effect.. and etc
    Ah! So you CAN perform ACTIONS and make CHOICES then, can you? That MUST mean you have Free Will then, doesn't it? If you can only RESPOND you can't claim you're doing ANYTHING! Just as the hammer and saw the carpenter uses for his work don't do anything but are merely USED to do work by him.
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    Ah! So you CAN perform ACTIONS and make CHOICES then, can you? That MUST mean you have Free Will then, doesn't it? If you can only RESPOND you can't claim you're doing ANYTHING! Just as the hammer and saw the carpenter uses for his work don't do anything but are merely USED to do work by him.
    What he said does not necessitate free will. Look more closely at his wording. Free will is an illusion. Your preferences and experiences and psychological states determine what your next actions will be. This LOOK LIKE choice, but in reality ,it is not. You always act in a way that you want to, thus it appears you have choice. However, the way you want to act is determined by your psychological states, just as your desires are determined by your psychological states. Thus, you always act in accord with your desires.

    Determinism does not allow for "free will" and if the world is deterministic, you cannot, by definition, have free will. Rather, pseudo free will is true; such a view is called compatibilism. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    What he said does not necessitate free will. Look more closely at his wording. Free will is an illusion. Your preferences and experiences and psychological states determine what your next actions will be. This LOOK LIKE choice, but in reality ,it is not. You always act in a way that you want to, thus it appears you have choice. However, the way you want to act is determined by your psychological states, just as your desires are determined by your psychological states. Thus, you always act in accord with your desires.

    Determinism does not allow for "free will" and if the world is deterministic, you cannot, by definition, have free will. Rather, pseudo free will is true; such a view is called compatibilism. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism
    You CAN'T HAVE preferences and choices - real or imagined - unless you have Free Will! In fact, you CAN'T experience illusions unless you have Free Will. Illusions are misinterpretations of Reality. You CAN'T interpret or misinterpret unless you have Free Will! NOTHING can be determined without Free Will! Stop being silly!
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    You CAN'T HAVE preferences and choices - real or imagined - unless you have Free Will! In fact, you CAN'T experience illusions unless you have Free Will. Illusions are misinterpretations of Reality. You CAN'T interpret or misinterpret unless you have Free Will! NOTHING can be determined without Free Will! Stop being silly!
    You have got to be kidding me. Do you have any idea what "Free will" actually is? Do you have any how psychological states are caused?

    You CAN have preferences without free will. Do you know anything about psychology? I can have a preference for chocolate ice cream without "free will". My like of chocolate ice cream more than any other ice cream is determined by my reward.

    You know what, I give up. You just don't know anything about psychology or philosophy and refuse to learn anything about psychology or philosophy.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    You have got to be kidding me. Do you have any idea what "Free will" actually is? Do you have any how psychological states are caused?

    You CAN have preferences without free will. Do you know anything about psychology? I can have a preference for chocolate ice cream without "free will". My like of chocolate ice cream more than any other ice cream is determined by my reward.

    You know what, I give up. You just don't know anything about psychology or philosophy and refuse to learn anything about psychology or philosophy.

    Don't be silly! How can you prefer if you have NO MEANS of doing so, namely: the ability to CHOOSE a preference?

    Who DECIDED that you should like chocolate ice cream more than others if not YOURSELF? MAGIC? Why do you materialistic fellows CONSTANTLY run from accepting RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS?
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    Don't be silly! How can you prefer if you have NO MEANS of doing so, namely: the ability to CHOOSE a preference?

    Who DECIDED that you should like chocolate ice cream more than others if not YOURSELF? MAGIC? Why do you materialistic fellows CONSTANTLY run from accepting RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS?
    We understand what you're trying to say, obviously if you choose chocolate ice cream that means you made the decision, but its a bit more complicated than that. Theres no point in me saying anything else because you won't believe the psychologists and scientists who put forward evidence, and all you have to do is read over what i've said earlier if you want to actually understand whats happening in reality
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    (Original post by Alexok)
    We understand what you're trying to say, obviously if you choose chocolate ice cream that means you made the decision, but its a bit more complicated than that. Theres no point in me saying anything else because you won't believe the psychologists and scientists who put forward evidence, and all you have to do is read over what i've said earlier if you want to actually understand whats happening in reality
    You, sir, get ONE MILLION rep points.
 
 
 
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