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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    You have chosen to leave Europe and see Australia and American, but most of my relatives (I'm a 1st generation American) stay in Europe when they vacation. It would not surprise me if less than 40% of Europeans have not travelled outside of Europe, which wouldn't make them much different than Americans when taking geography into account.
    1) I doubt that it is 2) Some european countries are not nearly so rich as america, so there may be more than 40%who couldnt afford to leave europe. Also, the language thing really does make a bigger difference. There is more difference between the english and the spanish/french/italians etc culturally than there is between Britain and america. So they would still have seen less variety of culture and different means of thinking. Physical geography is not, in the modern world, always the main thing that creates cultural differences.
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    1) I doubt that it is 2) Some european countries are not nearly so rich as america, so there may be more than 40%who couldnt afford to leave europe. Also, the language thing really does make a bigger difference. There is more difference between the english and the spanish/french/italians etc culturally than there is between Britain and america. So they would still have seen less variety of culture and different means of thinking. Physical geography is not, in the modern world, always the main thing that creates cultural differences.
    What's with your obsession with language? The Swiss have three different languages that are spoken in diffferent parts of the country, and Belgium has two. Does that mean that there's more in common between an Italian and an Italian-speaking Swiss than between that Swiss person and another one who speaks French?

    (Original post by allymcb2)
    Clearly not in terms of breadth of education. A leader requires both the in depth knowledge of a particular subject.Plus an extremely wide-ranging education in international politics, which is changing all the time. You can't just do a course one time, and expect that to be good enough. He has the most responsibility of anyone in the world, and he should have the world knowledge to back that up. I am skeptical about whether his Harvard MBA was earned or bought, but I can't prove squat, so I will leave that part out of the debate.
    I'm fairly certain that a vast majority of MPs in Britain have never taken a course in international politics.
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    The vast majority of MPs in Britain have more knowlege of international politics than president Bush. Or at least have the common sense to pay someone who has to reduce the number of gaffs they make. I am not saying that, because most Swiss and Welsh etc people are bilingual. I am saying that there will never be as much in common between two countries which speak different languages than between two people who speak the same first language because there is a culture and philosophy ingrained in that language. I am saying that languages are an essential part of the knowledge of an educated person for this reason, and that visiting countries which use different languages important. ESPECIALLY for those who intend to be leaders of developed nations, such as america.
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    Clearly not in terms of breadth of education. A leader requires both the in depth knowledge of a particular subject.Plus an extremely wide-ranging education in international politics, which is changing all the time. You can't just do a course one time, and expect that to be good enough. He has the most responsibility of anyone in the world, and he should have the world knowledge to back that up. I am skeptical about whether his Harvard MBA was earned or bought, but I can't prove squat, so I will leave that part out of the debate.
    By most accounts, Harvard is not exactly hard up for cash. Why would they risk their reputation by selling degrees, when there is clearly a long line of qualified individuals willing to pay for an education there? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    The vast majority of MPs in Britain have more knowlege of international politics than president Bush. Or at least have the common sense to pay someone who has to reduce the number of gaffs they make. I am not saying that, because most Swiss and Welsh etc people are bilingual. I am saying that there will never be as much in common between two countries which speak different languages than between two people who speak the same first language because there is a culture and philosophy ingrained in that language. I am saying that languages are an essential part of the knowledge of an educated person for this reason, and that visiting countries which use different languages important. ESPECIALLY for those who intend to be leaders of developed nations, such as america.
    Go to Belgium. The Flemish only speak their language, and the Walloons only speak their language. Bush visited Mexico, and I'm pretty sure it has a different language. :rolleyes: Or are you like one of those French people who think the only way to be "multilateral" is to visit France?
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    1) I doubt that it is 2) Some european countries are not nearly so rich as america, so there may be more than 40%who couldnt afford to leave europe.
    My cousin can afford to come to New York, but he doesn't want to endure a 10 hour plus flight, despite being able to easily afford it. He decided to get together with some of his friends and go to Denmark instead because it is easier. If I were in his shoes, I would do the same thing and not bother coming to NYC.

    Over here, many of our states are the size of countries in Europe and if you needed a passport to cross the border of a state, 100% of our population would have a passport. This passport issue is all about geography and ease of travel. It has nothing to do with being arrogant or ethnocentric.

    Europeans walk 10 feet and find themselves in another country and think they are more worldly because of it. :rolleyes:

    (Original post by allymcb2)
    Also, the language thing really does make a bigger difference. There is more difference between the english and the spanish/french/italians etc culturally than there is between Britain and america.
    That's debatable. I think politically there is little difference between Britian and America. Your tories are a bit like our democrats and that's where the similarity ends. You have people that are self-proclaimed socialists and, in America, politicians insult one another by calling each other socialists.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Europeans walk 10 feet and find themselves in another country and think they are more worldly because of it. :rolleyes:
    Except the disparity in travel is not limited to travel within Europe... it extends to Africa, to Asia, to Austrilasia, to the Caribbean even...

    Proximity doesnt seem to make a difference...
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    Would anyone actually contend that there is less cultural diversity in Europe than in the US???
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    We are closer to that than to France, where the government is just socialism under a different name and all businesses fail because of it. And I didnt just mean the politics I meant the culture. We are always the first behind america to develop obesity and anorexia problems, we listen to a lot of american music (far more than we listen to european). A lot of american businesses come into the UK. We watch a lot of american television etc. The culture in Europe is totally different. The attitude to suing people for stupid reasons, divorce rates etc are also more similar between Britain and america than Britain and Europe. When the UN decides not to do something, Britain ignores them and goes with america. And yes, I think Europeans ARE more cultured because of easy geographical access to foreign countries. But its not just about travel. Every american child knows american history inside out upside down and back to front. However on a tourist trip I went on in the UK ( and these are the americans who DO travel) along the river cam in cambridge, one person was surprised that the university buildings were pre-war. One extremely clever american on the oxford forum did not know that Britain doesnt use the euro. I dont particularly care if you think that america is great and that other countries are not worth learning about. I dont care if you dont bother to learn a language. it is fine that your president doesnt know much about relevant world affairs. However, we WILL get offended. We WILL dislike you for it, and we WILL have a thoroughly jolly time ridiculing you for it.
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    We are closer to that than to France, where the government is just socialism under a different name and all businesses fail because of it. And I didnt just mean the politics I meant the culture. We are always the first behind america to develop obesity and anorexia problems, we listen to a lot of american music (far more than we listen to european). A lot of american businesses come into the UK. We watch a lot of american television etc. The culture in Europe is totally different. The attitude to suing people for stupid reasons, divorce rates etc are also more similar between Britain and america than Britain and Europe. When the UN decides not to do something, Britain ignores them and goes with america. And yes, I think Europeans ARE more cultured because of easy geographical access to foreign countries. But its not just about travel. Every american child knows american history inside out upside down and back to front. However on a tourist trip I went on in the UK ( and these are the americans who DO travel) along the river cam in cambridge, one person was surprised that the university buildings were pre-war. One extremely clever american on the oxford forum did not know that Britain doesnt use the euro. I dont particularly care if you think that america is great and that other countries are not worth learning about. I dont care if you dont bother to learn a language. it is fine that your president doesnt know much about relevant world affairs. However, we WILL get offended. We WILL dislike you for it, and we WILL have a thoroughly jolly time ridiculing you for it.
    Why would Americans know anything about Oxford when they have little intention of going there? And I know quite a few Europeans who thought the UK had the euro. These aren't exactly the things that make people cultured or uncultured (or you have really odd standards). And for your information, while Britain is the fattest country in Western Europe, had the highest divorce rates and teenage pregnancies, their numbers are much closer to other Western European countries than to the US.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    He has an MBA from Harvard. I think that puts him in the 5% of most educated people...
    I dont see that that makes him particularly knowledgable in general. Considering that he was most likely a legacy at both Yale and Harvard.

    Even the most staunch Bu****e (wow that looks close to another word :p: ) cant sincerely believe that Bush would be able to get into either institution on merit alone...
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Why would Americans know anything about Oxford when they have little intention of going there?
    A fair number of them come over for postgrad. Of my main friends last year 85% or so were Americans.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    I dont see that that makes him particularly knowledgable in general. Considering that he was most likely a legacy at both Yale and Harvard.

    Even the most staunch Bu****e (wow that looks close to another word :p: ) cant sincerely believe that Bush would be able to get into either institution on merit alone...
    I was referring to education.

    I could say the same thing about a goodo 25% of LSEers, and yet they managed to get in anyway.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Except the disparity in travel is not limited to travel within Europe... it extends to Africa, to Asia, to Austrilasia, to the Caribbean even...

    Proximity doesnt seem to make a difference...
    I think the reason for the difference is cultural, and I don't think that it's a result of a lack of curiosity. In America, social status is mostly concerned with material possessions or wealth. While you might envy someone who jets off to the Bahamas for a vacation, it's not tangible enough that people will remember your travels and be impressed by them. In Europe, materialism is more frowned upon, so a more socially acceptible way to show off your money is to travel to exotic places.
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    Clearly not in terms of breadth of education. A leader requires both the in depth knowledge of a particular subject.Plus an extremely wide-ranging education in international politics, which is changing all the time. You can't just do a course one time, and expect that to be good enough. He has the most responsibility of anyone in the world, and he should have the world knowledge to back that up. I am skeptical about whether his Harvard MBA was earned or bought, but I can't prove squat, so I will leave that part out of the debate.
    Leaders should be able to lead. You'll rarely find a politician or minister who is at the top of their field. Certainly the idea that the President of the United States should be wildly intellectual is plain nonsense. Why do you think they have advisers for?

    Out of interest, is your name Ally?
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I was referring to education.

    I could say the same thing about a goodo 25% of LSEers, and yet they managed to get in anyway.
    Why do you say that on LSE? DO they do legacies in the same way? I have noticed that there seems to be an unusual spread of ability at LSE... my fiancee was there last year, and I wouldnt have trusted some of her class mates to make me a good bagel.

    Incidentally - you only get a decent education if you work hard at your studies and take an interest in them. As far as I know Bush was no scholar, and he if he ever was he certainly shows no evidence of it now.

    Granted - he isnt as dumb as people content - but he IS a mediocre mind... IMO..
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    Leaders should be able to lead. You'll rarely find a politician or minister who is at the top of their field. Certainly the idea that the President of the United States should be wildly intellectual is plain nonsense. Why do you think they have advisers for?
    Able and intellectual leaders can best adjudicate and process the information given by their advisers. The less intellectually able the closer advice becomes to a dictate.


    Does a leader have to be a nobel laureate? No… but the smarter the better – and intellectual mediocrity shouldn’t really make the grade.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Why do you say that on LSE? DO they do legacies in the same way? I have noticed that there seems to be an unusual spread of ability at LSE... my fiancee was there last year, and I wouldnt have trusted some of her class mates to make me a good bagel.

    Incidentally - you only get a decent education if you work hard at your studies and take an interest in them. As far as I know Bush was no scholar, and he if he ever was he certainly shows no evidence of it now.

    Granted - he isnt as dumb as people content - but he IS a mediocre mind... IMO..
    Because a quarter of them know absolutely nothing about the subject. Using Occam's Razor, I just assume that it has a lousy selection committee.

    Most people in high office are in their 50s; does it really matter what they did when they were 20? Kerry did worse at school than Bush, yet no one claimed he was a dunce.

    Yes he is, but I don't think anyone would seriously propose an intelligence test for politicians...
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    Why in the world would we WANT to go to other countries when people like Ally are there?

    Let's see here: 2,000 dollars for three days to see people like Ally who will no doubt ruin our trip. 2,000 dollars to Florida to see Mickey Mouse for 10 days to make memories that will last a lifetime.

    How many trips to the United States have you made Ally?
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    I think the reason for the difference is cultural, and I don't think that it's a result of a lack of curiosity. In America, social status is mostly concerned with material possessions or wealth. While you might envy someone who jets off to the Bahamas for a vacation, it's not tangible enough that people will remember your travels and be impressed by them. In Europe, materialism is more frowned upon, so a more socially acceptible way to show off your money is to travel to exotic places.
    I think that its wrong to say materialism is frowned upon... sure its relative - but we look up to and envy the wealthy as much as most...

    I genuinely think Americans care less about and are less interested in the rest of the world than Europeans...

    having said that - I like americans and get on better with them than anyone else... I dont generally like Brits... and I can understand WHY Americans are like that ... but I think it would be better if the culture lent itself more to curiosity about other places.
 
 
 
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