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    As a TSR Socialist, I'd say that's a pretty good reason to join the Socialists...

    As a real life Labour member, I'd say it's a blot on our record.
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    (Original post by Alasdair)
    As a TSR Socialist, I'd say that's a pretty good reason to join the Socialists...

    As a real life Labour member, I'd say it's a blot on our record.

    Lol, a "blot on our record". That's a bit of an understatement don't you think?
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    Lol, a "blot on our record". That's a bit of an understatement don't you think?
    But thoroughly in keeping with the neo-thatcherite politics of New Labour though. And, as another real life Labour member, please believe me when I say that these things really stick in the throat and provide more than ample evidence of why, no matter which party is in power, the poorest get left on the scrap heap. The Tories won't change it, nor will the Lib Dems. Just because they represent the centre of this nation, doesn't make them right.
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    Interesting fact - if we rolled back spending to the levels they were in 2003 (not that long ago), we could cut income tax to 0%. For everyone.
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    (Original post by CyclopsRock)
    Interesting fact - if we rolled back spending to the levels they were in 2003 (not that long ago), we could cut income tax to 0%. For everyone.
    In real terms? And do you include NI in income tax or in the taxes that would be left? I'd love to see that worked out, as I'd have thought interest on the debt would pretty much require income tax. Though it may be other taxes account for a lot more.

    Incidentally, Norway could balance its budget without charging any tax, since the return on their national savings is so great. That's some awesomely-prudent financial management.
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    In real terms? And do you include NI in income tax or in the taxes that would be left? I'd love to see that worked out, as I'd have thought interest on the debt would pretty much require income tax. Though it may be other taxes account for a lot more.

    Incidentally, Norway could balance its budget without charging any tax, since the return on their national savings is so great. That's some awesomely-prudent financial management.
    *questions moving to Norway*

    My nan is Norwegian and I have family over there, its a possiblility but the language barrier
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    (Original post by tucker672)
    *questions moving to Norway*

    My nan is Norwegian and I have family over there, its a possiblility but the language barrier
    I will point out, while they could balance their budget without charging tax, they do still charge tax, and a lot of it. Beer is ~£9 a pint. Even with their huge oil reserves, petrol is more expensive than here. Beautiful country though.
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    There's another argument here - tax isn't just about generating government income. More equal societies are much higher up on pretty much every index of living standards, so progressive taxation can, aside from generating income for the state, also reduce inequality.
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    I will point out, while they could balance their budget without charging tax, they do still charge tax, and a lot of it. Beer is ~£9 a pint. Even with their huge oil reserves, petrol is more expensive than here. Beautiful country though.
    My nan and grandad just come back from holiday in Norway and although my grandad nearly had a heart attack at the prices, but it wasn't £9 a pint. The most expensive place he had a pint was in Oslo airport and that work out £6.10. It is a beautiful country, one of the most beautiful in the world.

    There high prices aren't all down to high taxes, the main part is that wages are so much higher than here. :yes:
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    (Original post by tucker672)
    My nan and grandad just come back from holiday in Norway and although my grandad nearly had a heart attack at the prices, but it wasn't £9 a pint. The most expensive place he had a pint was in Oslo airport and that work out £6.10.
    Depends where you are - I just came back from Bergen/the Western Fjordland, and £9 a pint was pretty standard. I think I only bothered having 3 beers, but they were all very similar in price (and all pretty good). Probably more competition in Oslo though, and a fewer tourists, so lower prices there seem sensible.
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    I hear the girls in Norway are quite something - and confident too. It's apparently the norm for girls to pick up blokes. Awesome!
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    (Original post by Alasdair)
    I hear the girls in Norway are quite something
    Oh yes. Even being with my girlfriend I noticed this.
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    Does the TSR Labour Party reflect anything on the real life party? :ninja:
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    (Original post by natty_d)
    Does the TSR Labour Party reflect anything on the real life party?
    We do, in that we share common goals. We oppose inequality and want to provide opportunities for all, not just the wealthy. We push for better rights for working people and support an extensive welfare state. We support a mixed economy and government regulation working for the interests of workers and consumers. It is through these ideas and beliefs we come to share the name Labour.

    This doesn't mean we support all specific policy proposed by the Labour Party. I think there is concern amongst us on how civil liberties are being eroded by the real life party and obviously ****-ups by the executive are no reflection on how the TSR party operates as legislators!

    We house socialists and social democrats and anyone from the left/centre left is welcome to join really.
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    Tbf, I can't remember a TSR Labour policy that hasn't been gimmicky and inconsequential.
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    (Original post by Metrobeans)
    We do, in that we share common goals. We oppose inequality and want to provide opportunities for all, not just the wealthy. We push for better rights for working people and support an extensive welfare state. We support a mixed economy and government regulation working for the interests of workers and consumers. It is through these ideas and beliefs we come to share the name Labour.

    This doesn't mean we support all specific policy proposed by the Labour Party. I think there is concern amongst us on how civil liberties are being eroded by the real life party and obviously ****-ups by the executive are no reflection on how the TSR party operates as legislators!

    We house socialists and social democrats and anyone from the left/centre left is welcome to join really.
    Only the ones who clicked the wrong button on the Group Memberships page... :ninja:

    Love you, man!
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    Out of interest, who would class themselves a Socialist in TSR Labour?
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    (Original post by Metrobeans)
    We house socialists and social democrats and anyone from the left/centre left is welcome to join really.
    :yep:

    Really stupid question, and here might not be the right place, but what is a socialist/social democrat?
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    But thoroughly in keeping with the neo-thatcherite politics of New Labour though. And, as another real life Labour member, please believe me when I say that these things really stick in the throat and provide more than ample evidence of why, no matter which party is in power, the poorest get left on the scrap heap. The Tories won't change it, nor will the Lib Dems. Just because they represent the centre of this nation, doesn't make them right.
    But stealth taxes, for the far left include things like cigarettes and alcohol. I know you're against lowering the ages of these (from your comments on the youth alcohol in pubs and drugs bills). So what is your opinion on taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, noting that they are disproportionately consumed by the poor.
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    (Original post by paperclip)
    But stealth taxes, for the far left include things like cigarettes and alcohol. I know you're against lowering the ages of these (from your comments on the youth alcohol in pubs and drugs bills). So what is your opinion on taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, noting that they are disproportionately consumed by the poor.
    To me statements like that are merely emotional libertarian blackmail and should have no place in rational socialist thinking. There is a reason why people smoke and drink when people are poor - that is what we should try to change, not exclaim that taxes on these items should go down because the majority of people who consume them are poor. Attitudes not taxes need to change.
 
 
 
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