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    (Original post by Maker)
    Can't refute what I am saying can you? Adding more rubbish to what you are saying just makes a bigger pile of rubbish.

    I am sure a lot of Turks coming to the UK for holidays would be good for the economy.
    In the words of the sage of Lichfield...

    "Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
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    (Original post by jneill)
    If you find it tasteless I apologise.

    Meanwhile Polish and N Irish fans in Nice.
    https://vine.co/v/iLeDIXgIg5E
    Apology accepted.
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    (Original post by Trill)
    It is really quite simple, Wikipedia is not a credible source as people such as yourself could edit the Wikipedia pages. No academia would accept Wikipedia as a source, as an academic myself, I refuse to accept information from an unreliable source.
    Oh, do get over yourself...
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    (Original post by Trill)
    It is really quite simple, Wikipedia is not a credible source as people such as yourself could edit the Wikipedia pages. No academia would accept Wikipedia as a source, as an academic myself, I refuse to accept information from an unreliable source. If you would like reject my argument about why I think we should remain based on what I have read from newspapers, information packets, then use more credible sources. For example, government publications, information packets, or links to government web pages.
    I'll take that as a "yes, I would have liked you to have given me the 300+ citations"
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    (Original post by generallee)
    In the words of the sage of Lichfield...

    "Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
    Dr Johnson has a statue in Lichfield.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I would have thought that works the other way and it's the Remain campaign that have an uphill struggle to try to get the true facts across - for example, on immigration and welfare, where as the chart shows, people's belief about these things are wildly exaggerated.
    Except the main reason the numbers are so wildly off is because most people have no grasp of context and relative figures for these areas. In most cases they're literally just winging a random number, but it's not like only 5% of the UK population being EU immigrants rather than 15% is okay to them.
    I've heard Green voting pacifists claiming the UK spends trillions on defence and fighting wars. They were still Green voting pacifists once I'd finished explaining how wildly exaggerated and inflated their figures were.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Except the main reason the numbers are so wildly off is because most people have no grasp of context and relative figures for these areas. In most cases they're literally just winging a random number, but it's not like only 5% of the UK population being EU immigrants rather than 15% is okay to them.
    I've heard Green voting pacifists claiming the UK spends trillions on defence and fighting wars. They were still Green voting pacifists once I'd finished explaining how wildly exaggerated and inflated their figures were.
    It's more about the undecideds really.

    A committed Green (or Tory or Labour or in this case Remainer or Leaver) isn't going to be persuaded otherwise after a single conversation. But undecideds might be...
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Except the main reason the numbers are so wildly off is because most people have no grasp of context and relative figures for these areas. In most cases they're literally just winging a random number, but it's not like only 5% of the UK population being EU immigrants rather than 15% is okay to them.
    I've heard Green voting pacifists claiming the UK spends trillions on defence and fighting wars. They were still Green voting pacifists once I'd finished explaining how wildly exaggerated and inflated their figures were.
    Yeah, but it's the cumulative impact of repeated misrepresentation and lying that distorts people's judgement. The media constantly play into the right wing game of hysteria over immigration numbers, creating a national myth which forms the basis of voting for large numbers of people. Only today we heard the "quarter of a million a year if we stay in" figure from Migration Watch, faithfully reported on the BBC, as if they are some sort of credible research body, whereas in fact they have repeatedly been exposed as a bunch of right wing stooges for UKIP and the far right of the Tory Party, their 'research' and 'forecasts' always take the most extreme possible interpretation of the facts and they are entirely self-appointed with no academic or research credibility.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Dr Johnson has a statue in Lichfield.
    Must be a stone statue cos if was made of copper the immigrants would have knicked it long ago.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Having no control over the number of immigrants able to come to live here if they feel like it, clearly IS a bad thing.

    The population of the EU is 500 million and every single one of them could come to live here and we could do nothing about it. In fact it would be illegal under EU law to do anything to stop it.

    Do you deny this?

    Net migration last year was 333,000, 50,000 more than the population of Newcastle and six times the number of Huguenot immigrants in total. Once regarded as the largest single immigration in English history. That is for one year.

    If there are 37 countries in the world with a higher figure, fine. It seems surprising, but I believe you. So what? That hardly helps US in our challenge to build the houses they need to live in, the schools their kids need, and to hire the new GP's they need to visit.

    The most important point though is far more profound than that. There won't be an England in any recognisable sense, in a few years if we don't curtail current levels of immigration. The culture of a thousand years will have been wiped out in a single generation.

    I get that you couldn't care less about that. But a lot of English people do, and that is why immigration has become the hottest topic in politics. And will continue to be, whatever the result of this Referendum.
    Don't worry,

    There will be areas of England where the culture you refer to will survive for many many years regardless of the result.

    Where I live I'm completely surrounded by foreigners. It's so bad that when I moved house* and my Asian next door neighbour came round to say goodbye,he said,without any irony whatsoever ,"this areas unrecognisable since all the Eastern Europeans arrived "

    But I'm really really lucky.

    Because I've always hated the English.They are without doubt the most poorly educated ,rude,aggressive,arrogant people in the Western world.

    Anyway yeah, I admit that English culture has disappeared from my part of London but there will as I say be hundreds of villages and even the odd town where it will survive.

    * I only moved a few minutes away
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    (Original post by generallee)
    The whole world seems to have moved to my suburb already. I don't need to keep the curtains closed, I can see it whenever I walk to the shop or drive down the nearby streets. And we are not talking the inner city here, but a small English town.

    It is a fascinating cultural phenomenon actually. If you were observing it as an anthropological experiment rather than living it.
    Any idea what it is about your town that is attracting them?

    Is there a lot of wildlife ?
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    (Original post by moggis)
    Any idea what it is about your town that is attracting them?

    Is there a lot of wildlife ?
    Are you trying to be obnoxious, or does it just come naturally?

    Either way you are very good at it.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Are you trying to be obnoxious, or does it just come naturally?

    Either way you are very good at it.
    Well I don't think I'd know if I was obnoxious let alone whether I was good at it.

    I'm not even sure what it means but whatever it is I don't think I was trying to be it.
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    (Original post by moggis)
    Don't worry,

    There will be areas of England where the culture you refer to will survive for many many years regardless of the result.

    Where I live I'm completely surrounded by foreigners. It's so bad that when I moved house* and my Asian next door neighbour came round to say goodbye,he said,without any irony whatsoever ,"this areas unrecognisable since all the Eastern Europeans arrived "

    But I'm really really lucky.

    Because I've always hated the English.They are without doubt the most poorly educated ,rude,aggressive,arrogant people in the Western world.

    Anyway yeah, I admit that English culture has disappeared from my part of London but there will as I say be hundreds of villages and even the odd town where it will survive.

    * I only moved a few minutes away
    What an evil and generalising thing to say about the English.

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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Yeah, but it's the cumulative impact of repeated misrepresentation and lying that distorts people's judgement. The media constantly play into the right wing game of hysteria over immigration numbers, creating a national myth which forms the basis of voting for large numbers of people. Only today we heard the "quarter of a million a year if we stay in" figure from Migration Watch, faithfully reported on the BBC, as if they are some sort of credible research body, whereas in fact they have repeatedly been exposed as a bunch of right wing stooges for UKIP and the far right of the Tory Party, their 'research' and 'forecasts' always take the most extreme possible interpretation of the facts and they are entirely self-appointed with no academic or research credibility.
    There is no "national myth." According to the 2011 Census 45% of London's population is "White British" and 53% of Birmingham's.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ack-Straw.html
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    (Original post by moggis)
    Must be a stone statue cos if was made of copper the immigrants would have knicked it long ago.
    Immigrants do seem to be more cultured than Brits.
 
 
 
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