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    (Original post by teenhorrorstory)
    Lmao. I suggest you educate yourself on the item actually being discussed before coming here to embarrass yourself.
    Lol embarrass myself. I couldn't give a **** what any of you think. I came on here to discuss some of the stupid comments being posted about racism. I don't give 2 shits about burkinis. ''Educate myself''... yeah learning about burkinis is so productive. Lol the idiots on here.
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    (Original post by Student167)
    Lol embarrass myself. I couldn't give a **** what any of you think. I came on here to discuss some of the stupid comments being posted about racism. I don't give 2 shits about burkinis. ''Educate myself''... yeah learning about burkinis is so productive. Lol the idiots on here.
    Then leave the thread if you don't care about the topic matter. You're not exactly gracing us with even an ounce of intelligence or anything substantial
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Thanks, I will continue to have the sheer nerve of continuing to travel and enjoying the vast world out there while being Black
    That's fine while you country shop for a better deal I will stay make my country a better place for me, my family and community (but we are not talking about travel so your travel plans are as irrelevant as your opinion on this issue).

    But again your race is irrelevant to me but it seems rather a big deal to you (which if roles were reversed would be rather racist would it not)
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    (Original post by teenhorrorstory)
    How does the burkini ban free Muslim Women from abuse? 50 mark question
    It doesn't. But it limits the abuse ^^ it makes it clear that it is not acceptable to force women to be covered up at every moment of their life; if they choose to do so, whatever. Nobody would care. But clearly that it not always the case. Stop them wearing Islamic dress in public = stop them being forced to wear Islamic dress. It's quite simple really. If their husbands don't let them leave the house because of that then that is altogether a different problem (and requires yet further tinkering to prevent). I'm quite in support of harsher sentences against abuse, education in schools, classes for migrants etc. But as I've said lots of times on this thread, many are quick to criticise the ban yet provide no alternatives. Either people have no better ideas or else do not care about the victims. I'm not sure. Either way, it saddens me when I see women forced to wear something they do not want to or do not think it necessary - what a terrible home life to have. So I'm passionate about wanting to put a stop to that. If I see a better solution that makes more sense to me, then sure I'd probably support it.

    What alternatives can you suggest? 51 mark question ;D
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    It doesn't. But it limits the abuse ^^ it makes it clear that it is not acceptable to force women to be covered up at every moment of their life; if they choose to do so, whatever. Nobody would care. But clearly that it not always the case. Stop them wearing Islamic dress in public = stop them being forced to wear Islamic dress. It's quite simple really. If their husbands don't let them leave the house because of that then that is altogether a different problem (and requires yet further tinkering to prevent). I'm quite in support of harsher sentences against abuse, education in schools, classes for migrants etc. But as I've said lots of times on this thread, many are quick to criticise the ban yet provide no alternatives. Either people have no better ideas or else do not care about the victims. I'm not sure. Either way, it saddens me when I see women forced to wear something they do not want to or do not think it necessary - what a terrible home life to have. So I'm passionate about wanting to put a stop to that. If I see a better solution that makes more sense to me, then sure I'd probably support it.

    What alternatives can you suggest? 51 mark question ;D
    Dipping into foreign cultures and shouting out how its 'immoral' based on a skim-read of the situation is a bigger problem tbh.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    If you're not wearing it for religious purposes then you should have no problems wearing something else.

    I honestly agree that it would be preferable not to ban anything of the sort - but Islamic dress is used repeatedly as a tool to abuse and dehumanise women, I think protecting people from abuse is more important than pandering to notions that everyone must be free to do everything. That's one of the reasons why I support the ban (and the closest to my heart specifically). Admittedly it is not a particularly efficient tactic, though I see no alternatives offered. But doing something is better than nothing.

    I wonder how many people that do not support the ban also do not support bans on prostitution. Some women do it of their own choice; some are forced into it and abused. Yet a lot of people think a way to protect the victims is an outright ban - in other places it is legalised in an effort to protect the victims. There are plenty of parallels to draw here.
    There is a philosophical issue with banning the burka in order to free women. To an Amazonian tribesperson, the social pressure on Western women to cover their breasts might seem restrictive and oppressive. Is there a categorical difference between banning the burka and banning upper body clothing for women? Would you consider yourself freed if the latter took place?
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Dipping into foreign cultures and shouting out how its 'immoral' based on a skim-read of the situation is a bigger problem tbh.
    Any situation where women are forced to stay indoors, forced to wear only one certain 'approced' item of clothing and beaten up by their husbands is immoral and if you think otherwise then frankly, I'm disgusted.

    I am not claiming that every Muslim I've ever met is abused. On the contrary, some of them have wonderful family and social lives but equally I know some girls that don't. There is a real problem out there and ignoring it makes it worse.

    I just think all human beings deserve equal status. If that makes me immoral in your eyes, I really don't care ^^
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    There is a philosophical issue with banning the burka in order to free women. To an Amazonian tribesperson, the social pressure on Western women to cover their breasts might seem restrictive and oppressive. Is there a categorical difference between banning the burka and banning upper body clothing for women? Would you consider yourself freed if the latter took place?
    FREE THE NIPPLE! The Amazonians have it right actually. Why can men whip em out and we can't eh?

    And yes, there is a difference, because upper body clothing (in particular bras) actually help you physically.Burkas represent female submission in Islam and are often associated with abuse of women by the men in their lives. Sure, not everyone who wears them are forced, but we need to protect those who are.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    That's fine while you country shop for a better deal I will stay make my country a better place for me, my family and community (but we are not talking about travel so your travel plans are as irrelevant as your opinion on this issue).

    But again your race is irrelevant to me but it seems rather a big deal to you (which if roles were reversed would be rather racist would it not)
    "Country shopping" like you casually mentioned your mother-in-law does without an ounce of disgust. Wonder why....

    It's a big deal when people use racially charged insults or attempts at them.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Any situation where women are forced to stay indoors, forced to wear only one certain 'approced' item of clothing and beaten up by their husbands is immoral and if you think otherwise then frankly, I'm disgusted.

    I am not claiming that every Muslim I've ever met is abused. On the contrary, some of them have wonderful family and social lives but equally I know some girls that don't. There is a real problem out there and ignoring it makes it worse.

    I just think all human beings deserve equal status. If that makes me immoral in your eyes, I really don't care ^^
    Yes, Islam has primitive tenets. But the solution is not to jump around criticising the collective Muslim community because evidently it is having a negative effect. Instead, we should work to deal with corruption in the Middle East and work to improve integration of Muslim communities, and to properly distinguish them from terrorists, and naturally over the next few decades - these Muslim countries will adopt better human rights laws.

    But going around crying about it is offering no solutions and a waste of time.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Laughable.
    why?
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    (Original post by Retropattern)
    why?
    Why do you think so called "modesty" is a good thing, and why on earth should we adopt it in the west when it is exactly what we got rid of years ago? Something you read in a book, maybe?

    Human bodies, faces, arms, legs, hair, and all are not things to be frightened of and hidden away. It is not sexual or threatening to society to whip 'em out.
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    (Original post by richpanda)
    I can sum up this thread very quickly:

    Mostly British Muslims who don't understand how important secularism is in France calling it 'ridiculous'
    Why are Jewish kippahs allowed on the beach then? And Christian crosses?
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Why do you think so called "modesty" is a good thing, and why on earth should we adopt it in the west when it is exactly what we got rid of years ago? Something you read in a book, maybe?

    Human bodies, faces, arms, legs, hair, and all are not things to be frightened of and hidden away. It is not sexual or threatening to society to whip 'em out.
    Oh right, you're one of those feminazi liberals. I'm done talking to you, now skip along naked whilst your bitten to death everywhere (and yes everywhere) by mosquitoes and your paper thin skin is scratched and grazed by almost anything and you freeze to death at night. Bye bye now.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    "Country shopping" like you casually mentioned your mother-in-law does
    You are very dishonest.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    You are very dishonest.
    Says the one who wants to suppress the human rights and freedom of speech of immigrants

    "I'm simply saying as an immigrant your opinion has less relevance than someone born in the country "
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    You are very dishonest.
    You said she has lived abroad, as I have. Why is it "country shopping" when I do it but it's not when she does?
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    FREE THE NIPPLE! The Amazonians have it right actually. Why can men whip em out and we can't eh?

    And yes, there is a difference, because upper body clothing (in particular bras) actually help you physically.Burkas represent female submission in Islam and are often associated with abuse of women by the men in their lives. Sure, not everyone who wears them are forced, but we need to protect those who are.
    Okay, but I think that's beside the point I'm making. The social value of covering up female nipples exists independently of the support given by the clothing. If the clothing was forcibly taken away, I suspect that women's immediate concern would be that their tits would be on show, with a secondary (or at least unrelated) pragmatic concern about the lack of support.*

    As it happens I agree with you re free the nips, in the sense that women should have the choice to bare them if they wish, but we're talking about actually forcing people to be half-naked (which is the equivalent, in my hypothetical, of banning the burka).
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    Why are Jewish kippahs allowed on the beach then? And Christian crosses?
    Yes, but being fully naked (presumably) isn't, which is more analogous in this situation given the burkini is the polar opposite of being fully naked.

    Do you think nudists should be able to cite their ideological beliefs as a reason for being allowed to walk around this beach fully naked?
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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    Yes, but being fully naked (presumably) isn't, which is more analogous in this situation given the burkini is the polar opposite of being fully naked.

    Do you think nudists should be able to cite their ideological beliefs as a reason for being allowed to walk around this beach fully naked?
    Except you are allowed to do that on nudist beaches.. If this was REALLY about secularism, they'd ban kippahs and crosses too. They allow people to wear wet suits, they allow men to cover up, but God forbid that this wet suit sounds Muslamic. They don't care if it's something to do with non Muslims...
 
 
 
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