Should women earn as much as men? Watch

musti123
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Should women be paod as much as men? Simple answer NO (everybody seems to think yes, so i thought id disagree for the sake of disagreeing)
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Shask
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"Should women earn as much as men?"

They should if they do the same job to the same standard. But, for example, a woman regularly having babies and having to stay off for extended periods of time shouldn't be paid the same as a man working constantly.
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Bornstubborn
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I cannot understand how people can find maths dull and English interesting. Maths is by far the most interesting topic you can study.

Sometimes i wish i was doing only maths instead of engineering.
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musti123
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init maths and physics, so much more interesting than 'reading books' and talking about them endlessly, over analysing teh use of a comma etc.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Reblet)
It's funny how earlier in this thread you were convinced of IQ's ability to test intelligence but now you're not so sure. Haha. You find it convenient I have a higher IQ than you? I find it difficult to believe you scored over 130 in an IQ test but there you go. If you have to know numbers I took one when I was quite young and got 148 and took one a few years ago and got 154 but they were different IQ tests so obviously the scores are subject to the scale. Which IQ test did you take out of interest? Or was it an internet one... Nobody seems to get less that 120 on those things. haha.

No answer is right actually in English. That's the fun of it! You have to convince someone of your theories. Why would dropping out to get a job be a competition? I want the best for me and so far I've got that, dropping out is possible as I was offered a decent job this year but you have to stick with one company really if you haven't got a degree and I don't like being tied down. But it's shooting yourself in the foot, especially as uni is all about the experience as well as the degree.

Yes my career options are more open than yours. I don't see how that's such a surprise. My degree, like most, qualifies me for nothing and everything. It doesn't lead me in a certain direction but it does meet the basic entry requirements for most graduate jobs so it's all about interview/experience from then on. Your reference to Ally McBeal might mean something to someone who watches chic TV... like yourself for example, but it means nothing to me. If you're mocking law then you really are more idiotic than I first thought.

And why would I be angry? You're expressing your opinion and I'm disagreeing. Out of interest what exact degree are you doing and where?
To be honest i find it odd that someone who disregards the value of IQ tests seems to have so much pride in such a high IQ score. You can believe what you wish about my IQ score, curiously i find the idea that you scored as high as a genius to be a joke. I have learned that when discussing on the internet its best to take what you hear with a pinch of salt. Afterall you are hardly a genius. If you were such a genius you wouldn't be on such a soft course.

English literature is a joke of a subject. All you have to do is interperet a poem and no answer is wrong. Its known as a soft subject for a reason.

Your career options are more open than mine, sure you can get a job as a secetary, or work in a call centre, or as a PA, or write for a magazine etc However your job opportunities are no where near the level mine will be.
It really does qaulify you for nothing, you're right. Maybe you can become my PA one day.

My comment about Ally Mcbeal is a joke about how popular law has become with girls. Curiously that applies to you aswell. Do i sound like the guy who watches trashy womens tv? I listen to thrash metal.

I am doing Mechanical Engineering at a top 3 uni for the subject. Thanks.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Mata)
An answer is not 'right' or 'wrong' but will be respected if it is an intelligent theory, written well, with evidence taken from a close, perceptive reading of the text. Literary theory and practical criticism are more challenging than one would expect and you can't just get away with throwing random ideas around, attaching long words and pretending you know what's going on. Certainly not at a good university.

And there is a wide range of high-paying jobs one can enter into, from an English degree. From the more predictable teachers, arts administrators, journalists, publishers, editors, people working in any and every type of media etc to ... lawyers, bankers, marketing managers and accountants (a weirdly large amount of accountants work for accountancy firms these days - I know one person who literally breezed his way into Deloitte).

Not defending women there, merely English Literature as a degree. And maybe making the point that a woman who chooses English Literature as a degree isn't being 'soft' or going for the 'easy' option. Personally I saw it as an opportunity to go to the university I wanted to go to, do the degree that I would enjoy, and still be a viable candidate for high-paying city jobs. Sweet deal.

Edit: Reblet got there before me, so this basically echoes her sentiments.
So like i said; in English lit every answer is right as long as its presented in the right way. So your whole course consists of learning how to present an opinion. Wow, i am jealous. You must really feel like you're getting value for money.

You're not fooling anyone by saying English lit students become bankers and accountants.
''teachers, arts administrators, journalists, publishers, editors, people working in any and every type of media etc''

They are English lit jobs. Perhaps law if they take a conversion course.

I am sorry English lit is a soft subject. Sure the odd english lit student gets a good job, that is not the rule. English lit is a soft subject, and the high amount of women doing it results in women getting paid less in the work place.

You are kidding yourself if you think Enlish lit is better than engineering.
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flump
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
So like i said; in English lit every answer is right as long as its presented in the right way. So your whole course consists of learning how to present an opinion. Wow, i am jealous. You must really feel like you're getting value for money.

You're not fooling anyone by saying English lit students become bankers and accountants.
''teachers, arts administrators, journalists, publishers, editors, people working in any and every type of media etc''

They are English lit jobs. Perhaps law if they take a conversion course.

I am sorry English lit is a soft subject. Sure the odd english lit student gets a good job, that is not the rule. English lit is a soft subject, and the high amount of women doing it results in women getting paid less in the work place.

You are kidding yourself if you think Enlish lit is better than engineering.
Things aren't as clearcut as you seem to think. I have a member of staff with a physics degree from a top university who is doing unskilled work (hasn't been able to cut it at anything else) I have a friend with a 2.2 in history from a rather lower institution who is earning lots of money in banking. I don't understand why you feel the need to be so superior to Mata and Reblet. If you are happy and confident in what you are doing why are you so worried about them?
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ffrann
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[QUOTE=curiouslyorange1989]lol i would support the idea of contractual arrangments for things like maternity leave and such, though i would be wary as to where it could lead (the ramifications of no preggers clauses etc).

I wouldn't support contracts that say 'I will not get pregnant', I would support 'In the event of my pregnancy I will take no more than 3 weeks maternity leave' and ' In the event of my partner getting pregnant I will take no more than 3 weeks paternity leave'.
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life is beautiful
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I think it is clear to all logical minds that men pursue education that will lead to more profitable careers, they are willing to work in dangerous environments, they will work more hours, travel further

Discuss.
this might have been the case 50 years ago but not now cause women have started doing all kinds of works including most dangerous ones

(Original post by Bornstubborn)
they will not be taking 9 months off everytime they feel broody.

Discuss.
well if they donot do that then there wouldnot be any human race and also donot forget the fact that Men also have a equal responsibity in making the women Broody


How do you say that men are more profitable to companies? what kind of evidences do you have?


(Original post by Bornstubborn)

I have never heard of people arguing in favour of certain ethnic groups getting paid more, even though there is a clear distinction between the salary's of certain ethnic groups.

Discuss.
ya here is a valid point i appreciate your point here
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Mata
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
So like i said; in English lit every answer is right as long as its presented in the right way. So your whole course consists of learning how to present an opinion. Wow, i am jealous. You must really feel like you're getting value for money.

You're not fooling anyone by saying English lit students become bankers and accountants.
''teachers, arts administrators, journalists, publishers, editors, people working in any and every type of media etc''

They are English lit jobs. Perhaps law if they take a conversion course.

I am sorry English lit is a soft subject. Sure the odd english lit student gets a good job, that is not the rule. English lit is a soft subject, and the high amount of women doing it results in women getting paid less in the work place.

You are kidding yourself if you think Enlish lit is better than engineering.
At no point did I say English Lit is better than engineering. It is so painfully obvious that I didn't say it. Geez.

I am now going to quote directly from the Cambridge careers service. What an English degree will give you:

'the ability to

Work independently
Meet deadlines
Be self-directing
Prioritise
Take a broad and a detailed view
Absorb and retain complex information
Keep a flexible, open mind
Sift/select relevant material; see the wood for the trees; identify key issues
Analyse and evaluate critically; discriminate and judge between points of view
Understand people
Perceive and identify meaning (including hidden and multiple meanings)
Understand complex abstract statements
Use imagination and creativity; formulate an individual line, angle, opinion
Think logically
Synthesise coherently
Structure an argument
Write clearly, persuasively, concisely, to the point'


Sooo ... if I was an employer with a candidate who displayed even half these qualities, I'd be chuffed. And, looking through the graduate destinations part of the website I have found: two lawyers, two international management accountants, a strategy consultant for businesses, a psychotherapist, a director of corporate management etc etc. That is as well as loads of people going into publishing, television and radio, several of whom have become executives on big enterprises.

There is no such thing as a typical 'English Lit job' - and I do feel I get value for money. I have a huge range of lectures available to me every day, 1-on-1 supervisions every week and am taught by some of the country's (and the world's) authorities in my subject. I will graduate with a good degree, great experience and the opportunity to apply for jobs in a wide range of sectors. Disbelieve me if you want, but I know that this degree was the cleverest option for me to take.
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munchie_rox
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I garee with what someone else said previosuly, until you get out of education and start looking for jobs, you dont realise.

A degree (a good degree) may get you an interview, but you have to have so many other things to get the job. With employers able to pick from millions of graduates, its really not the be all and end all it once was.

I think its more important to do a degree you have a passion for since that shows through when you go for interview. Worked for me anyway!!

Oh, and to Mata, English Lit is a blinking good degree, you will have a lot of options when you are done!
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OhNO!
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I am sorry English lit is a soft subject. Sure the odd english lit student gets a good job, that is not the rule. English lit is a soft subject, and the high amount of women doing it results in women getting paid less in the work place.
english literature is one of the most popular and in-demand courses in the whole country. second only perhaps, to medicine. if an english lit graduate with a decent job is the exception and not the rule, then what are these vast swathes of the graduate population doing with their time?

You are kidding yourself if you think Enlish lit is better than engineering.
I couldn't give two ****s about engineering. english lit is much better.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Mata)
At no point did I say English Lit is better than engineering. It is so painfully obvious that I didn't say it. Geez.

I am now going to quote directly from the Cambridge careers service. What an English degree will give you:

'the ability to

Work independently
Meet deadlines
Be self-directing
Prioritise
Take a broad and a detailed view
Absorb and retain complex information
Keep a flexible, open mind
Sift/select relevant material; see the wood for the trees; identify key issues
Analyse and evaluate critically; discriminate and judge between points of view
Understand people
Perceive and identify meaning (including hidden and multiple meanings)
Understand complex abstract statements
Use imagination and creativity; formulate an individual line, angle, opinion
Think logically
Synthesise coherently
Structure an argument
Write clearly, persuasively, concisely, to the point'


Sooo ... if I was an employer with a candidate who displayed even half these qualities, I'd be chuffed. And, looking through the graduate destinations part of the website I have found: two lawyers, two international management accountants, a strategy consultant for businesses, a psychotherapist, a director of corporate management etc etc. That is as well as loads of people going into publishing, television and radio, several of whom have become executives on big enterprises.

There is no such thing as a typical 'English Lit job' - and I do feel I get value for money. I have a huge range of lectures available to me every day, 1-on-1 supervisions every week and am taught by some of the country's (and the world's) authorities in my subject. I will graduate with a good degree, great experience and the opportunity to apply for jobs in a wide range of sectors. Disbelieve me if you want, but I know that this degree was the cleverest option for me to take.
Half of those qaulities could apply to any course at unviversity. Get real.

English lit is known as a soft subject. Don't get upset at me because your course doesn't really teach you anything.

That is problem with this country people from soft subject backgrounds getting jobs they clearly are not qaulified for. Its not what you know its who you know. A shame really.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by OhNO!)
english literature is one of the most popular and in-demand courses in the whole country. second only perhaps, to medicine. if an english lit graduate with a decent job is the exception and not the rule, then what are these vast swathes of the graduate population doing with their time?



I couldn't give two ****s about engineering. english lit is much better.
The hardest and most worthwhile subjects are some of the least popular. The soft subjects are the most popular. Its pretty logical to understand some students are going mroe for a university experience than gaining real qaulifications.

Engineering is not only a lot more interesting its also a lot more worthwhile with better grad prospects. English lit is a bit of a joke subject.
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OhNO!
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
The hardest and most worthwhile subjects are some of the least popular. The soft subjects are the most popular. Its pretty logical to understand some students are going mroe for a university experience than gaining real qaulifications.
the soft subjects are more popular? what, like medicine and veterinary medicine?

english lit is more popular because a broader range of people find it interesting and worthwhile. it's a subject that's accessible on many levels, which is why it's taught to everyone from the very beginning of your school career, and upwards. your last experience with studying english literature might be pre-GCSE, I can assure that it does continue to increase in difficulty and depth of study, just as it increased in difficulty from age 5 to age 14.

Engineering is not only a lot more interesting its also a lot more worthwhile with better grad prospects. English lit is a bit of a joke subject.
interesting and worthwhile according to whom? you?
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Ethelred the Unready
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In response to the question: Not necessarily.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by OhNO!)
the soft subjects are more popular? what, like medicine and veterinary medicine?

english lit is more popular because a broader range of people find it interesting and worthwhile. it's a subject that's accessible on many levels, which is why it's taught to everyone from the very beginning of your school career, and upwards. your last experience with studying english literature might be pre-GCSE, I can assure that it does continue to increase in difficulty and depth of study, just as it increased in difficulty from age 5 to age 14.



interesting and worthwhile according to whom? you?
English literature was a complete waste of time, it really taught me nothing. I guess it did teach me how pretentious of a subject english lit is and perhaps some of its students. They should have spent more time with us working on technical writing.

Engineering runs the world. You wouldn't be comunicating to me over your computer without engineering. Its worthwhile because you are almost gauranteed a good job.
I wonder if the world would be any worse off if English lit ceased to exist as a subject.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
English literature was a complete waste of time, it really taught me nothing. I guess it did teach me how pretentious of a subject english lit is and perhaps some of its students. They should have spent more time with us working on technical writing.
I disagree, in fact I really regret taking a set of A-levels too much down the science tract. Partially why I have now decided to take a few politics modules in the midst of a science degree.
Engineering runs the world. You wouldn't be comunicating to me over your computer without engineering. Its worthwhile because you are almost gauranteed a good job.
I wonder if the world would be any worse off if English lit ceased to exist as a subject.
Actually it was Mathematics where the whole lot came out of pretty much, engineers merely built some of the infrastructure. Though I hope you are not going to be allowed to build anything other than fences, given your own chronic lack of linguistic ability and therefore ability to follow instructions properly, I fear anything larger, and you will become a killer, as opposed merely sticking a nail in your hand.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
I disagree, in fact I really regret taking a set of A-levels too much down the science tract. Partially why I have now decided to take a few politics modules in the midst of a science degree.

Actually it was Mathematics where the whole lot came out of pretty much, engineers merely built some of the infrastructure. Though I hope you are not going to be allowed to build anything other than fences, given your own chronic lack of linguistic ability and therefore ability to follow instructions properly, I fear anything larger, and you will become a killer, as opposed merely sticking a nail in your hand.
Don't you want to work in politics?

Mathematics is engineering. Engineering is basically applied maths.

I actually used to build fences for the railway. I quite enjoyed that job. I am good at engineering, i got a first for last year grade point 15. You are just unfamiliar with the 8 different forms of intelligence, all sorts of different people learn differently and excel at different subjects.
I do well in maths based subjects. My dad was a maths teacher and when i was 6 i was doing GCSE maths, but he stopped teaching me due to work. I find maths very easy, i almost got a perfect maths score on my exams last year. I need to work on my writing, i am planning on taking a course to improve my writing next year.

I am going to a top eng university, with lots of private school educated kids.

Don't underestimate me.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
Don't you want to work in politics?
Its a possibility, I might get there and decide otherwise.
Mathematics is engineering. Engineering is basically applied maths.
Engineering applies a very small area of maths, compared to the whole body. In fact computer science was carried out in Mathematics departments up until recently. Nothing at all do with engineering. Engineers merely put the cables up and printed the circuit boards. The actually original and intelligent part came from mathematicians. To be short, there is a difference between designing a car and screwing it together.
I actually used to build fences for the railway. I quite enjoyed that job. I am good at engineering, i got a first for last year grade point 15. You are just unfamiliar with the 8 different forms of intelligence, all sorts of different people learn differently and excel at different subjects.
The 8 forms of intelligence is another bit of poor educational theory that is built on the nonsense idea that everyone can succeed and do well academically. Some people just cannot. Asides building fences makes you a mechanic, not an engineer really.
I do well in maths based subjects. My dad was a maths teacher and when i was 6 i was doing GCSE maths, but he stopped teaching me due to work. I find maths very easy, i almost got a perfect maths score on my exams last year. I need to work on my writing, i am planning on taking a course to improve my writing next year.
GCSE maths is how difficult exactly? I would regard passing it as nearly meaningless, given you only need 15% its not too hard to teach a 6 yo to do it. Though its rather pointless.
I am going to a top eng university, with lots of private school educated kids.

Don't underestimate me.
Lots of people go to top universities. It doesn't mean that all of them are going to be any good, or even get through the course. You should see the wastage rates for some science courses, engineering included.
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