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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    ​That's not what I was getting at. People ignore warnings, people end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. All conflicts have some civilian deaths, so there will always be some civilian deaths, however they won't be as high as they are now.
    Whataboutery does you no favours at all.

    Will you stop ignoring my questions? You've been ignoring this question for days now, trying to bring in any possible bull**** argument to stray from it.
    Why is Hamas not firing from empty fields but from civilian areas when it knows that logically this will lower the civilian count?

    Or are you saying that Hamas doesn't care about its civilians and they're at the mercy of how much importance Israel places on the opinion of the International community? I'd like to here your take on this.
    You seem most concerned about the Palestinian death toll as does Israel with their constant need to imply media bias and justification for the high death toll in Gazze.

    I suggest to you, and to all those who wish to go down this route that if Israel does not want to explain the high death toll, then they simply hold fire. The solution is not to blame the other side for an action which you think they are engaging in which as not definitively, nor conclusively been proved.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    .
    ​Why is Hamas not firing from empty fields when it has the chance to but prefers to fire from busy cities?

    ​If you are incapable of responding to the above question, please refrain from pointing fingers elsewhere in order to deflect from the original point. What is that, red herring? Whataboutery? Maybe even both?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    When was the last time Israel actually took peace seriously (or Hamas for that matter)? Or, more importantly, when did they both take peace seriously enough to try to make peace?
    Is Israel not getting this wonderful distraction for the international community via Gaza so people forget that they are illegally settling the west bank? And does a nation not have the right to defend its interests? Israel is attacking Gaza for the rocket fire, Gaza is now attacking Israel via the rocket fire for, among other things, the blockading of Gaza.
    I feel like we are somewhat getting somewhere, you finally acknowledged Hamas are not orientated towards peace and to some extent Israel have not helped matters either.

    I will continue supporting Israel in this debate until people admit to the faults of Hamas because for sure Israel are not completely innocent but Hamas should equally share the blame.

    The blockade is an important issue which should be discussed more. So Israel has controlled the movement of goods, people and recourses yes. They to some degree control the economic and demographic climate of the Gaza Strip. This sounds bad until we look more into the other side of the argument. Gaza houses a terrorist network which has widely used suicide bombers for example so can you blame Israel for being weary of who it let's pass into their land? Do we not take similar precautions over our borders? Secondly a large proportion of building materials and recourses have gone to the construction of these illegal tunnels into Israel. Even Palestinian officials outside of the organisation say Hamas have starved Gaza of new and updated infrastructure because as we now know they focused the stocks on the tunnels ect. Can we blame Israel for being weary of what it lets into Gaza considering the intentions of Hamas? Thirdly the influx of natural recourses and arms has been used by Hamas for the likes of rockets and military arms. The UN has stated that their is Iranian and Syrian armed goods being sent to Gaza. My overall point is can we hate Israel for taking precautions whether they are extreme or not to protect to their people? It's a tricky situation to be in and whatever route they take either their people or the people of Gaza will suffer.
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    ​Why is Hamas not firing from empty fields when it has the chance to but prefers to fire from busy cities?

    ​If you are incapable of responding to the above question, please refrain from pointing fingers elsewhere in order to deflect from the original point. What is that, red herring? Whataboutery? Maybe even both?
    I have absolutely no idea. Maybe you should email them or tweet to them with your suggestion.

    It'de be fascinating to receive a response from an "actual real live terrorist", wouldn't it?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    I have absolutely no idea. Maybe you should email them or tweet to them with your suggestion.

    It'de be fascinating to receive a response from an "actual real live terrorist", wouldn't it?
    Of course you don't. Because it makes no logical sense at all for them to do this. Unless they want to do everything possible to put their civilians at risk. But you won't concede to that because that would mean accepting the fact that Hamas isn't a group of freedom fighters conquering the evil oppressor as the extreme leftist and Hamas would have us believe.

    Was that sarcastic comment at the end an attempt at saving face? Tsk, bitterness does not become you.
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    An important question is what do you think would happen if Israel pulled back from everything they are doing?

    Do you really think that will prevent anymore fighting especially in the future?

    This is a region where fighting will exist until either side wins so what do you anti-Israeli people think pulling back will achieve?
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    (Original post by miavdbt)

    Ooh, okay, well Hamas might not fire from empty fields, but what about the evil Israel that hits civilians anyway? Isn't that the whataboutery that you like to accuse us of?


    Right. So you won't answer the question. Israel is not complaining and whining about civilian losses. Gaza is complaining and whining about civilian losses.

    You refuse to answer the question because you can't. Because you know what I said is perfectly logical. Tell me why Hamas won't fire its useless rockets from fields instead of busy cities! You can't?

    I'll tell you why. Because if Hamas fires and stores its rockets far away from civilians, Israel will be unlikely to hit any. As a result, the Hamas media war will fail. And that's all they have to rely on, International sympathy. Agree or disagree and why?

    Hamas puts its rockets in civilian areas because if they were out in the open they would be destroyed in short order by the IDF, it's as simple as that. Without the rockets Hamas doesn't exist, even though they are little more than an annoyance to Israel, they are about the only bargaining chip the Gazans have. If Israel offered an incentive to disarm, maybe the insanity could be stopped... but they won't, they make it impossible for the Gazans to accept their conditions.

    So Hamas's choice is to unilaterally disarm to a neighbour that wants to destroy them and is holding an entire population hostage, or to fight on and accept horrendous consequences. It's a hopeless situation for the Gazans and Israel's treatment of them is inhumane and utterly shameful. The hard right's hold on Israel has made the world a much more dangerous place.
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    Israeli Official Calls For Concentration Camps In Gaza

    http://www.worldbulletin.net/world/1...-camps-in-gaza

    I will not be surprised if the next step of the Zionists is to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip, as they have done in the past to other Palestinian territories. It's only a matter of time before these blood-thirsty animals go one step too far (although to be fair, they have already gone pretty far, so far). How will anyone be able to stop them when they are so hungry for Land and Arab Blood. They even bite the hand that feeds them (The USA who provides £3bn a year in aid) via means such as spying and threats.
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    (Original post by HCubed)
    Hamas puts its rockets in civilian areas because if they were out in the open they would be destroyed in short order by the IDF, it's as simple as that.
    .

    Hamas can fire its rockets from farm land as opposed to hospitals and schools.

    The fact that its rockets will be destroyed if they don't store them in civilian areas is ludicrous and still does not justify the fact that they do in any way.

    Hamas should have planned for this, since in its constitution it states it wants to destroy Israel. If this was indeed the case, they should have built military bases far away from civilians, or hidden their rockets underground in empty fields (for instance). Seems they're good at building tunnels, why not digging holes to hide their rockets?

    Also, you can't justify them hiding their weapons amongst civilians because then the IDF would be less willing to hit them, because in that case you're effectively saying that using human shields is justifiable. That's what human shields are, if you didn't know.
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    Israel calls for a truce, Hamas disagrees is all the news you need to hear really.
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    Of course you don't. Because it makes no logical sense at all for them to do this. Unless they want to do everything possible to put their civilians at risk. But you won't concede to that because that would mean accepting the fact that Hamas isn't a group of freedom fighters conquering the evil oppressor as the extreme leftist and Hamas would have us believe.
    Apparently you derived all of that from "I have absolutely no idea".

    As I have maintained, the Israeli's should not attempt to justify the high Palestinian death toll on HAMAS. It is Israeli ammunition, Israeli shells and Israeli missiles which are doing the killing.

    On that note, Qassam have released a new "HOMEMADE" sniper rifle and named it "Ghoul"....

    I don't know. It just looks like a regular Steyr HS 50 with a modified barrel. It can apparently take up to 14.5mm rounds as well as go 2KM.

    Was that sarcastic comment at the end an attempt at saving face? Tsk, bitterness does not become you.
    "Saving face"? Ironic that you mention that given the events over the weekend and the subsequent decision by Bibi to withdraw ground forces...
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    I wasn't working out the life expectancy. I was showing the impact of a small number of extreme changes to a large sample size.

    You know, if you're right it should be fairly easy to demonstrate it. Go right ahead, I'd be very interested to see the maths.

    And of course all of this is entirely beside the point which, if you can recall that far back, was that the conditions in "open air prison Gaza" are evidently not as terrible as people might like to think if the life expectancy there is higher than in Glasgow.
    It's fine if Hamas murder 2000 Israelis because the life expectancy in Israel is higher than that of Glasgow?
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    (Original post by MASTER265)
    An important question is what do you think would happen if Israel pulled back from everything they are doing?

    Do you really think that will prevent anymore fighting especially in the future?

    This is a region where fighting will exist until either side wins so what do you anti-Israeli people think pulling back will achieve?
    So you want Gazze to be completely taken over by Israel?
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    ​Why is Hamas not firing from empty fields when it has the chance to but prefers to fire from busy cities?

    ​If you are incapable of responding to the above question, please refrain from pointing fingers elsewhere in order to deflect from the original point. What is that, red herring? Whataboutery? Maybe even both?
    Wherever they shoot from, Israel will always intentionally target civilians as outlined in their glorious Dahiya Doctrine.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Israel calls for a truce, Hamas disagrees is all the news you need to hear really.
    Israel would ever call for a truce to rearm and get more ammunition.
    Ps discuss the topic at hand rather than putting your head in the sand.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    So you want Gazze to be completely taken over by Israel?
    No, peace would be the best course of action but who are we kidding if Sunni and Shia can't have peace, if Kurd and Arabs can't, what hope is there for peace between Hamas and the Jewish population or zionists as you guys put it.

    All I'm trying to say is it's ok to say Israel should do this or that but in reality what will be achieved until one side wins.

    it is a sticky situation, what do you propose for long term peace for a region currently in hell with ISIS, Syria, Gaza and more recently Lebanon if you have seen the news.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Apparently you derived all of that from "I have absolutely no idea"

    You do have an idea though. You're so good at speculating otherwise, why not speculate a little bit as to why right now?


    As I have maintained, the Israeli's should not attempt to justify the high Palestinian death toll on HAMAS. It is Israeli ammunition, Israeli shells and Israeli missiles which are doing the killing.

    And as I have maintained, the discussion was about where Hamas could fire its rockets from, not whether its Israeli ammunition that hits Gazans or not. You're the one intent on changing the debate in order to suit your needs before fully addressing the issue at hand.



    On that note, Qassam have released a new "HOMEMADE" sniper rifle and named it "Ghoul"....

    I don't know. It just looks like a regular Steyr HS 50 with a modified barrel. It can apparently take up to 14.5mm rounds as well as go 2KM.



    "Saving face"? Ironic that you mention that given the events over the weekend and the subsequent decision by Bibi to withdraw ground forces...
    Except you're not debating with Bibi, you're debating with me. I am not Israel, you're not Gaza. We're two individuals who take different sides on a conflict. I hope you realize that, because it's a little worrisome if you don't...
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    You knew what happened today? Israel promised to hold the fire for 7 hours which allows palestinians to enter their houses and then Israel bombed the houses and killed 33 palestinian!
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    It's fine if Hamas murder 2000 Israelis because the life expectancy in Israel is higher than that of Glasgow?
    I didn't write anything remotely like that. Please go back and read my posts on this issue before weighing in. This will stop you saying silly things like you just did.
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    ​Why is Hamas not firing from empty fields when it has the chance to but prefers to fire from busy cities?

    ​If you are incapable of responding to the above question, please refrain from pointing fingers elsewhere in order to deflect from the original point. What is that, red herring? Whataboutery? Maybe even both?
    Have you tried looking at a map? Where are the fields? Where are the targets? How far away are they? What is the range of most of the weapons? There're your answer.
 
 
 
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