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The Arsenal Thread XXII watch

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    (Original post by EddyP)
    Actually I support Arsenal, I'm just sick of the fans who think we need to sack Wenger (and replace him with who?) and spend a load of money on superstar players (as if paying £30m+ for a reputation is a guarantee that a player will be great, see Di Maria, Falcao, also Ozil and Bale to an extent) after something doesn't go our way. If we had progressed in the CL, we'd just get beaten by a monster like Real or Bayern and then we'd have the same pissing and moaning over how Wenger (who was instrumental in persuading Ozil and Sanchez to sign) can't take us any farther and how we're £200m worth of players from the CL trophy (as if we can ever compete financially with clubs from hilariously unbalanced leagues like Germany and Spain).

    My favourite Arsenal players aren't Ozil and Sanchez (I like them though), but players like Giroud, Cazorla, Monreal - not players with world-beating reputations, but players who didn't cost a bomb and didn't come in with a massive reputation, but who have worked hard and have visibly gotten better over their time here (undoubtedly in part due to Wenger's coaching) and who are now getting the credit they deserve. Take Monreal - he's not getting into the side on the back of his reputation and price tag, like Ozil and Sanchez (needs to be dropped to get some rest, even if he wouldn't like it) to a certain extent, but because he's worked hard, developed as a player, taken his chances and is now the best LB in the squad. When I see Cazorla tackle someone twice as big as him, I'm on cloud nine, because it's not something he would have done a couple of years ago. So when Arsenal lose and I see the usual BS about installing a managerial revolving door and filling the team with overpriced ready-made superstar players with egos to match, I get a little pissed off. Sure, I'm happy if we win trophies. But I'm also happy when an underrated/written off Arsenal player works hard, becomes a better player and gets the respect they deserve.

    Rant over I guess?

    Agree 110%. And bolded part brings tears to my eyes, beautiful. A lot of fight in the little guy Cazorla too.

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    (Original post by AR_95)
    I wasn't the one posting shots earlier anyway
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    Favourite 5 Arsenal players?

    For me:

    5: Rosicky/Arteta/Coquelin/Welbz (can't decide)
    4: Hector
    3: Koscielny
    2: Ramsey
    1: https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/BxCl1d7IgAEyRZM.mp4
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    How do you post a gif on here?
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    (Original post by EddyP)
    Actually I support Arsenal, I'm just sick of the fans who think we need to sack Wenger (and replace him with who?) and spend a load of money on superstar players (as if paying £30m+ for a reputation is a guarantee that a player will be great, see Di Maria, Falcao, also Ozil and Bale to an extent) after something doesn't go our way. If we had progressed in the CL, we'd just get beaten by a monster like Real or Bayern and then we'd have the same pissing and moaning over how Wenger (who was instrumental in persuading Ozil and Sanchez to sign) can't take us any farther and how we're £200m worth of players from the CL trophy (as if we can ever compete financially with clubs from hilariously unbalanced leagues like Germany and Spain).

    My favourite Arsenal players aren't Ozil and Sanchez (I like them though), but players like Giroud, Cazorla, Monreal - not players with world-beating reputations, but players who didn't cost a bomb and didn't come in with a massive reputation, but who have worked hard and have visibly gotten better over their time here (undoubtedly in part due to Wenger's coaching) and who are now getting the credit they deserve. Take Monreal - he's not getting into the side on the back of his reputation and price tag, like Ozil and Sanchez (needs to be dropped to get some rest, even if he wouldn't like it) to a certain extent, but because he's worked hard, developed as a player, taken his chances and is now the best LB in the squad. When I see Cazorla tackle someone twice as big as him, I'm on cloud nine, because it's not something he would have done a couple of years ago. So when Arsenal lose and I see the usual BS about installing a managerial revolving door and filling the team with overpriced ready-made superstar players with egos to match, I get a little pissed off. Sure, I'm happy if we win trophies. But I'm also happy when an underrated/written off Arsenal player works hard, becomes a better player and gets the respect they deserve.

    Rant over I guess?
    Solid post.


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    In all seriousness Wenger needs to go ASAP. Seems to me that he has no authority in the dressing room, meek characters with no heart playing for the team. Can you imagine a SAF Manchester United team or Mourinho's Chelsea returning to the dressing room after what your lot did at 2-1 against Monaco. They wouldn't be aloud in. You read a lot of quotes from those manager's players who see them as father figures, they would lay down their life for these men. Wenger isn't the same. His refusal to lambast them in public is an issue too, don't think shielding these meek men makes a difference. Slate them, rile them up and get some fire in their stomachs. These players don't play with any fear of their manager, Arsene just doesn't command it. I don't think players care if they lose, you look at a man like Mertesacker cowering from the ball at corners and it's laughable. It's Wenger's fault, make no bones about that. The sooner he goes the sooner you can progress. In the words of Rafa Benitez: "I am talking about FACTS"
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    There are only two ways to win the CL. Be in that select group of clubs who can afford £150k/week players in basically every outfield position +GOAT level players like Messi, Ronaldo, Robben or have a very very astute and tactical manager who knows how to motivate and execute flawless collective performances(Simeone and Klopp and in the past Ferguson and Mourinho have the ability to do that).

    Arsenal are not in the former group, we are where the likes of Juventus are in that we can afford 3/4 of those grade A players and therefore can expect SF in a very good season and QF as roughly parity. When Wenger leaves, if we want to compete beyond that we'll need someone like Klopp to try and bridge the gap to that big4 of clubs.


    In the meantime, picking up Cups here and there and maintaining CL status is not a disaster by any stretch of the imagination. The average age of the club is good and we should keep improving.
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    (Original post by angelfox)
    How do you post a gif on here?
    Just click on the insert image box above or you put the link in between these [img] [/img] same way you'd insert a standard image


    Solid posts above, arguement can go either way. But for now, until the day he leaves. Wenger is the manager and there's just nothing that can be done about it. The abuse the man gets sometimes is unfathomable. Be real.
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    (Original post by Depleted)
    In all seriousness Wenger needs to go ASAP. Seems to me that he has no authority in the dressing room, meek characters with no heart playing for the team. Can you imagine a SAF Manchester United team or Mourinho's Chelsea returning to the dressing room after what your lot did at 2-1 against Monaco. They wouldn't be aloud in. You read a lot of quotes from those manager's players who see them as father figures, they would lay down their life for these men. Wenger isn't the same. His refusal to lambast them in public is an issue too, don't think shielding these meek men makes a difference. Slate them, rile them up and get some fire in their stomachs. These players don't play with any fear of their manager, Arsene just doesn't command it. I don't think players care if they lose, you look at a man like Mertesacker cowering from the ball at corners and it's laughable. It's Wenger's fault, make no bones about that. The sooner he goes the sooner you can progress. In the words of Rafa Benitez: "I am talking about FACTS"
    Nonsense. Wenger has complete control and respect of every dressing room, bar none, that he's had at Arsenal. Not a single ex-player has a bad word to say about that.

    And what if the next manager comes in, rants and raves and is able to pull out the kind of performances you're on about but we find he isn't 1/10th the coach Wenger is and we go on extended periods of awful performances and drop out of the top4? What's happening at Man Utd for instance, months and months of awful performances which are not put right through coaching would simply never happen under Wenger.

    You speak as if the things Wenger does on the training ground and in the transfer market are easy, he is an exceptional manager in so many ways that what you gain in the half time dressing room you will surely lose elsewhere, and then some.

    If you think about the mess Utd, Liverpool, Spurs etc are making of a top4 place for years now despite spending £100m every summer, and then consider Wenger did it without failure whilst actually selling his best players, then you begin to realise what an exceptional coach he is.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Arsenal are not in the former group, we are where the likes of Juventus are in that we can afford 3/4 of those grade A players
    I do think you will improve though. Your current level of investment is going to pay dividends. Players like Ramsey and Kos show you don't need 11 sets of that kind of spend, and with Ozil and Sanchez you're getting in some top quality year after year. If Wenger can combine that with some development. I think you can assemble a very good side in 2-3 seasons.
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    It'll be a sad day when Wenger leaves but it will also be a good day. When that day comes and Wenger moves on we will lose those who are Wenger fans as they will likely follow him to whichever club he manages next and we will be left with the actual arsenal fans. A fans loyalty is to his club not to the manager just as a citizens loyalty is to his country not to the president or prime minister of the country.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Nonsense. Wenger has complete control and respect of every dressing room, bar none, that he's had at Arsenal. Not a single ex-player has a bad word to say about that.

    And what if the next manager comes in, rants and raves and is able to pull out the kind of performances you're on about but we find he isn't 1/10th the coach Wenger is and we go on extended periods of awful performances and drop out of the top4?

    You speak as if the things Wenger does on the training ground and in the transfer market are easy, he is an exceptional manager in so many ways that what you gain in the half time dressing room you will surely lose elsewhere, and then some.
    Of course he's a magnificent coach and the issue isn't respect, its authority. Let's be honest, how can he look a man like Mertesacker in the eye again after what he did against Monaco? Or Liverpool? Or Stoke? What kind of message does it send out? I think players should fear repercussions if they play badly or gift a game away. It's evident in Jose's teams, it's evident in Pep's team and it was evident in SAF's teams. It's not in Arsene's. His coaching is some of the best in the world, but the fact he surrounds himself by weak men (if you can even call them men) and fails to instill that determination and grit within the players is his downfall. He's weak
    Mentally mate, I'm sorry to tell you.
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    How about just kidnapping Messi? .....noo??
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    I do think you will improve though. Your current level of investment is going to pay dividends. Players like Ramsey and Kos show you don't need 11 sets of that kind of spend, and with Ozil and Sanchez you're getting in some top quality year after year. If Wenger can combine that with some development. I think you can assemble a very good side in 2-3 seasons.
    I think so as well. Wenger is more long term than anyone really and he tends to put his sides together bit by bit in a very subtle way. The 2011 side of RVP, Nasri, Cesc etc appeared like that and I think this current cycle will be better than those. The age of the current team implies quite a nice squad, assuming a few £30m additions, in 2016/17, which will probably be Wenger's last season incidentally.

    But while I think it's certain we'll improve the necessary disclaimer is that AW will never pick the low hanging fruit to take us to that title winning level. The dodgy goalkeeper will never be upgraded or we'll at some stage find a 18 year old playing RB for extended periods .
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    (Original post by Depleted)
    Of course he's a magnificent coach and the issue isn't respect, its authority. Let's be honest, how can he look a man like Mertesacker in the eye again after what he did against Monaco? Or Liverpool? Or Stoke? What kind of message does it send out? I think players should fear repercussions if they play badly or gift a game away. It's evident in Jose's teams, it's evident in Pep's team and it was evident in SAF's teams. It's not in Arsene's. His coaching is some of the best in the world, but the fact he surrounds himself by weak men (if you can even call them men) and fails to instill that determination and grit within the players is his downfall. He's weak
    Mentally mate, I'm sorry to tell you.
    Maybe. But on the other hand maybe this is why he's such a great coach. Aaron Ramsey would have crumbled under Jose 100% but AW knew he had a good player. The likes of Koscielny in the current squad have become top top players because of that belief imo.

    I do agree that the current squad lacks leaders and that the reason for the early success of Wenger was those big characters we had. Wenger just needs to sign one or two big characters I feel and the team would be resolute. Then you have the best of every world!

    Agree on Mertesacker though, that guy annoys me alot these days. He talks a much better game than he delivers.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    I think so as well. Wenger is more long term than anyone really and he tends to put his sides together bit by bit in a very subtle way. The 2011 side of RVP, Nasri, Cesc etc appeared like that and I think this current cycle will be better than those. The age of the current team implies quite a nice squad, assuming a few £30m additions, in 2016/17, which will probably be Wenger's last season incidentally.
    This is what has landed us in the position we are in, lack of such building. You need that perennial investment and improvement, and I think Arsenal are improving at a faster rate than just maintenance.

    But while I think it's certain we'll improve the necessary disclaimer is that AW will never pick the low hanging fruit to take us to that title winning level. The dodgy goalkeeper will never be upgraded or we'll at some stage find a 18 year old playing RB for extended periods .
    I guess you will just have to hope for a bit of luck in that respect, perhaps that belief will be well founded or certain players will have a top quality season.
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    (Original post by Numan786)
    It'll be a sad day when Wenger leaves but it will also be a good day. When that day comes and Wenger moves on we will lose those who are Wenger fans as they will likely follow him to whichever club he manages next and we will be left with the actual arsenal fans. A fans loyalty is to his club not to the manager just as a citizens loyalty is to his country not to the president or prime minister of the country.
    No, not really. I love the club and will carry on supporting the club and the new manager. I love Wenger and will carry on supporting Wenger wherever he goes. I dislike a large section of the fans though, and I hate sitting next to the type of prawn sandwich brigaders that fill the Emirates these days (same with most clubs up the table these days). I cannot afford to go to every match these days, one or two games tops a season these days.
    Honestly? It is not a nice experience at the Emirates, in fact, it is **** being sat next to those people. £120 or so for return train tickets (I am North London born and raised so this ****ing hurts even more than it does to the pocket as it is a kind of nostalgic homesickness and longing for the past), highest ticket prices I believe in the league. And I am sat next to *****. Twice a season.

    Away games are nicer and more rational even if they are Wenger out but then again they happen to be a different breed of fans in the club.

    Do I have to love the fans to support the club? No. Granted, I have friends who happen to be Arsenal fans, but I think we get a lot of deserved stick because we have a large bulk of unbearably unpleasant fans.


    Funnily enough, I believe Piers Morgan is not a parody or even a caricature. He is a very real example of the type of fan we have.
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    (Original post by Numan786)
    It'll be a sad day when Wenger leaves but it will also be a good day. When that day comes and Wenger moves on we will lose those who are Wenger fans as they will likely follow him to whichever club he manages next and we will be left with the actual arsenal fans. A fans loyalty is to his club not to the manager just as a citizens loyalty is to his country not to the president or prime minister of the country.
    No no, I don't agree with that. So because some fans choose not to obliterate Wenger at every opportunity we care about him more than the actual club? This guy is the manager of Arsenal FC thus meaning he is a part of the same club we all love. When he moves on, we support the next manager that comes in, why? Because he's a part of OUR club. If the next manager also does **** all I'm sure he'll be shown the door, I don't get why we have to abuse the man at every defeat to come across as 'real fans' to half of you lot.

    Seriously now, none of us are saying Wenger is the answer but whilst we've got him what can we do about it. Let me know if any of you are head of HR at the club, be sure to print his p45 on quality paper, it's the least he deserves.
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    (Original post by EddyP)
    Actually I support Arsenal, I'm just sick of the fans who think we need to sack Wenger (and replace him with who?) and spend a load of money on superstar players (as if paying £30m+ for a reputation is a guarantee that a player will be great, see Di Maria, Falcao, also Ozil and Bale to an extent) after something doesn't go our way. If we had progressed in the CL, we'd just get beaten by a monster like Real or Bayern and then we'd have the same pissing and moaning over how Wenger (who was instrumental in persuading Ozil and Sanchez to sign) can't take us any farther and how we're £200m worth of players from the CL trophy (as if we can ever compete financially with clubs from hilariously unbalanced leagues like Germany and Spain).

    My favourite Arsenal players aren't Ozil and Sanchez (I like them though), but players like Giroud, Cazorla, Monreal - not players with world-beating reputations, but players who didn't cost a bomb and didn't come in with a massive reputation, but who have worked hard and have visibly gotten better over their time here (undoubtedly in part due to Wenger's coaching) and who are now getting the credit they deserve. Take Monreal - he's not getting into the side on the back of his reputation and price tag, like Ozil and Sanchez (needs to be dropped to get some rest, even if he wouldn't like it) to a certain extent, but because he's worked hard, developed as a player, taken his chances and is now the best LB in the squad. When I see Cazorla tackle someone twice as big as him, I'm on cloud nine, because it's not something he would have done a couple of years ago. So when Arsenal lose and I see the usual BS about installing a managerial revolving door and filling the team with overpriced ready-made superstar players with egos to match, I get a little pissed off. Sure, I'm happy if we win trophies. But I'm also happy when an underrated/written off Arsenal player works hard, becomes a better player and gets the respect they deserve.

    Rant over I guess?
    I want Wenger out 100%. Mourinho was right about him he really is a specialist in failure. My favourite player is Abou Diaby.
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    As a young 'un, Wenger has always been virtually synonymous with Arsenal to me. He has always been at the helm, and I was lucky to see the glory years during his reign and escape without delusions that the success of those times is easily replicable. Once Wenger retires, I doubt he'll move to another team, he will probably just move up to the board, but even if he did manage another club, of course I will start watching them AS WELL. I won't say '**** it, no wenger no bueno', Arsenal is and always will be my club, but luckily I am in a position where I can watch multiple games from multiple teams in multiple leagues.
 
 
 
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