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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    [/B]

    Yes, but the difference is that the US would be going against North Korea, not China.

    This is exactly why neither the US or China will not go to war against each other - I thought I'd made that clear earlier. Both nations realise that their economies are so interlinked together that warring against each other would ensure mutual destabilisation and downfall.

    Also, this isn't so much East vs. West anymore - such relationships have softened a lot since then. These nations (i.e. US, China, Russia) are "friendlier" towards each other now due to money, trade etc etc.
    If theres no way the US would go to war with China, and China makes it clear that war with NK would mean war with China, the US wont go to war with NK will they? Of course in order for this to act as sufficient deterrent they would have to mean it. You think US army strategists are planning on those tanks being there for refugees? Or planning a trip to China's new casino with their Chinese friends after this is done with?
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    If theres no way the US would go to war with China, and China makes it clear that war with NK would mean war with China, the US wont go to war with NK will they? Of course in order for this to act as sufficient deterrent they would have to mean it. You think US army strategists are planning on those tanks being there for refugees? Or planning a trip to China's new casino with their Chinese friends after this is done with?
    And if NK attacks SK/US/Japan?
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    And if NK attacks SK/US/Japan?
    Same would apply to them. Lets just hope nobody gets assassinated.
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    (Original post by advice_guru)
    I don't see why everyone is passing off North Korea as a joke when it comes to their threats.

    1) They have nuclear weapons around 5-7 kilotons, this is small for a nuclear weapon but large enough to use in an EMP
    2) North Korea can hit the US, they launched a satellite into space. If you can get a satellite into Space you can hit the US.

    Now for people not aware of what an EMP does, let me explain. EMP or Electro Magnetic Pulse is generated when a Nuclear Bomb is denoted high up in the atmosphere. An EMP can wipe out ALL ELECTRONICS.

    So an EMP detonated over the US would wipe out the National Grid, your Mobile Phones, your TV, your Cars (supposedly the car battery would be effected).


    This ultimately would lead to mass looting and a breakdown of society in general.

    Lool I stopped at point 2, what do you want us to do about it ? The people who need to be taking it serious ( Politicians and The army, defence minstry etc) are probably taking it seriously. This is probably one of those decisions thats shouldn't involve the mass population of a country and just those who are assigned to deal with it in the correct manner.

    Also i'm pretty sure, no matter what N Korea has the US will have IMMENSE ANTI Ballistic Missle capability.....And actual nuclear weapons themselves.
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    (Original post by Calpurnia)
    I'm constantly amazed/surprised/scared by the popular notion that the reflex of the US, in the face of such an attack, would be to massacre an entire country. I'm pretty sure that's not how the world works, and certainly not how it should work.

    I think if the situation called for it, they'd do it; remember japan to two bombs there destroyed a city of innocent people.(That's not me passing judgement)

    However they'd probably try and destroy infrastructure first and try to "level" the country.
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    (Original post by ss_s95)
    Well I highly doubt they'll nuke border areas (they might seize control but certainly won't nuke them, that's where victims of the North's status system are - as well as labour camps), if they're going to deploy nukes it'll most probably be within Pyongyang, where many kim-supporting government loyalists reside, as well as the fatso himself.

    Nuclear radiation in Pyongyang shouldn't go as far as Chinese border towns up north, or the DMZ down south.
    If you honestly believe that then you really haven't read about Chernobyl and that was an accident...

    The explosion [Chernobyl] at the power station and subsequent fires inside the remains of the reactor resulted in the development and dispersal of a radioactive cloud which drifted not only over Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine, but also over the European part of Turkey, Greece, Moldova, Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Poland, Estonia, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, Ireland, France, and Corsica.), Canada and the Kingdom (UK).
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    (Original post by intstud29)
    This is a very naive analysis on your part.

    1) Minimum loss of life for whom? The U.S. ?

    USA would have absolute air supremacy after a few days. The problem is, what North Korea can do after 3-4 days? The answer is, a LOT of damage.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Lates...ar-study-finds

    2) North Korea
    har between 180,000 and 200,000 Special Forces. They are Kim's private elite guard. In addition to another 1 million soldiers, North Korea has between 6 to 7 million strong paramilitary force.

    So even though the U.S. and South Korea can repel any North Korean attempt taking Seoul, that doesn't mean that North Korea can't do a lot of damage to civilian infrastructure. Remember, North Korean forces are 50 kilometers (31 miles) north of Seoul.

    South Korean forces are about 140 kilometers from Pyongyang.

    3) Most citizens in Pyongyang are the most regime-loyal ones. In order to get permission to live in Pyongyang, you have to be one of the most loyal ones. As North Korean citizen, you can't just move to Pyongyang. You would need permission to do so. In order to get permission, you need to prove yourself over a period of several years.

    Furthermore, there is nothing that indicates that any North Korean citizen would "roll out the red carpet" for any U.S. or South Korean forces. This never hapened in Somalia, it never happened in Afghanistan, it never happened in Iraq and it's not happening in Libya either. On the contrary, extremist groups are gaining ground. That's no wonder since U.S. is bombing their country to hell.

    Based on the U.S./Western interventions since early 1990s, there is not one single country that is "working" properly as a country.

    The Balkans, Haiti, Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, Libya, and now Mali - none of them are working properly. And there is no indication that Syria or North Korea will work "properly" after the West kills Assad or Kim.

    4) China does not want U.S./South Korea troops near it's borders. That itself can definitely provoke an attack.

    China might not defend North Korea, but China might easely be forced to create a buffer zone a few miles across the North Korean border, in order to still keep some kind of buffer against U.S. and a "new Korea". There is nothing U.S. can do to stop China creating such a smaller buffer zone, close to Chinese border.

    I wish people stop using the word "trade". Countries are not more peaceful, just because they are trade partners. It's a matter of national security and "trade" will always LOSE against that, and trade will lose against geo-strategic interests.

    I think your comment about the invaded counties are unfair, I think it will take possibly the best part of a 3 generations to determine whether invasion has worked.

    I think our western countries maybe have been naive to think that quick start demcracy would work anywhere because is simple doesn't....Democracy takes time, it takes population learning from its mistakes to realise collectivily that certain routes shouldn't be take, and that can take the best part of a century, this century is something countries like Britain have has and arguably our system isn't perfect.

    But I believe this people have a better future under demcoracy where they are the power than under dictatorship where individuals control everything.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    Same would apply to them. Lets just hope nobody gets assassinated.
    No. I said and what if NK attacked - clearly the country that is attacked will have the right to retaliate and China would clearly see that, no?
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    (Original post by StudyingHelp)
    I think if the situation called for it, they'd do it; remember japan to two bombs there destroyed a city of innocent people.(That's not me passing judgement)

    However they'd probably try and destroy infrastructure first and try to "level" the country.
    Interestingly, President Truman was aware of Japanese desires to surrender months before the bombs were dropped. Instead, the US continued the war and dropped the bombs anyway. (http://consortiumnews.com/2012/08/17...torical-truth/)

    So, perhaps you're right! My assumptions are only really based on me liking Obama for the most part, and thinking he's much cooler than George W. Bush and his pre-emptive self-defence rubbish.
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    There's no immediate threat from them. It's all about status for them right now.
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    (Original post by Calpurnia)
    Interestingly, President Truman was aware of Japanese desires to surrender months before the bombs were dropped. Instead, the US continued the war and dropped the bombs anyway. (http://consortiumnews.com/2012/08/17...torical-truth/)

    So, perhaps you're right! My assumptions are only really based on me liking Obama for the most part, and thinking he's much cooler than George W. Bush and his pre-emptive self-defence rubbish.
    That article seems to confuse various points. There's a very good coverage of the detail of it on Wikipedia. It's not hidden from history that Japanese peace proposals asking for the Soviets to act as intermediaries from Feb 1945 were put to the Americans and rejected. At that time the Allies had already confirmed their policy of unconditional surrender and the Japanese attempt contained many unnacceptable (to the Allies) terms of surrender. In addition, it is doubtful that they were more than an attempt to get the Soviets to leave them alone in the North. After the war, some members of the Suzuki government claimed they had been involved in peace talks that were ignored with the A-Bomb drops, but most historians believe this was a distortion of the facts.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrend...ese_leadership

    There are other issues in that article, like the deliberate suppression of the Smithsonian exhibition about Hiroshima and Nagasaki by right wing politicians including Gingrich, that are perfectly accurate and also quite depressing. There is US propaganda about the Japanese nuclear raids. In the past, the US government distorted accounts of how the decision to drop the weapons was taken. It now appears to have been much less considered than such a momentous decision should have been in some ways.
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    (Original post by ss_s95)
    I was honestly hoping the US had a way of controlling the dispersion of the nuclear attack...
    It would be impossible to predict the meteorological conditions during and after the nuclear blast. Wind speed and the direction will affect arrival time of fallout anywhere including China and precipitation could wash fallout from the atmosphere. Therefore the U.S will not launch a nuclear strike on Pyongyang.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    That article seems to confuse various points. There's a very good coverage of the detail of it on Wikipedia. It's not hidden from history that Japanese peace proposals asking for the Soviets to act as intermediaries from Feb 1945 were put to the Americans and rejected. At that time the Allies had already confirmed their policy of unconditional surrender and the Japanese attempt contained many unnacceptable (to the Allies) terms of surrender. In addition, it is doubtful that they were more than an attempt to get the Soviets to leave them alone in the North. After the war, some members of the Suzuki government claimed they had been involved in peace talks that were ignored with the A-Bomb drops, but most historians believe this was a distortion of the facts.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrend...ese_leadership

    There are other issues in that article, like the deliberate suppression of the Smithsonian exhibition about Hiroshima and Nagasaki by right wing politicians including Gingrich, that are perfectly accurate and also quite depressing. There is US propaganda about the Japanese nuclear raids. In the past, the US government distorted accounts of how the decision to drop the weapons was taken. It now appears to have been much less considered than such a momentous decision should have been in some ways.
    I appreciate the thorough post! Although definitively trying to assess the peace talks/motives of Japanese sounds like it may just devolve into a he-said-she-said thing

    I suppose the main idea remains the same regardless though, the bombs were dropped, in theory, because invasion would've been so costly to US forces. I feel that it would take an actual nuclear launch for anyone to want to try to invade/attack North Korea, because it would just get so messy/they have always made threats.
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    Back to the funny side
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    I know this is a very serious issue, and I think some seemingly kimpossible decisions need to be made by several countries.
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    North Korea may be readying for missile test, South says

    A top South Korean national security official said Sunday that North Korea may be setting the stage for a missile test or another provocative act with its warning that it soon will be unable to guarantee diplomats’ safety in Pyongyang. But he added that the North’s clearest objective is to extract concessions from Washington and Seoul.

    North Korea’s warning last week followed weeks of war threats and other efforts to punish South Korea and the U.S. for ongoing joint military drills, and for their support of U.N. sanctions over Pyongyang’s Feb. 12 nuclear test. Many nations are deciding what to do about the notice, which said their diplomats’ safety in Pyongyang cannot be guaranteed beginning this Wednesday.

    Tensions between Seoul and Pyongyang led South Korea’s Joint Chiefs of Staff to announce Sunday that its chairman had put off a visit to Washington. The U.S. military said its top commander in South Korea had also cancelled a trip to Washington. The South Korean defence minister said Thursday that North Korea had moved a missile with “considerable range” to its east coast, possibly to conduct a test launch....

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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    North Korea may be readying for missile test, South says

    [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
    Yeah so that if the test fails they can redesign all the rest really quickly in time for the war. Perhaps its NK's cunning plan to call up the US and tell them that they're about to test a missile so there's no need to shoot it down. We are so screwed.
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    Meanwhile at the pentagon:

    "Ah yes, as we expected the North Koreans are testing a missile. Get on with your work everyone."

    "Sir its coming this way"

    "Oh the rotters."
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    Yeah so that if the test fails they can redesign all the rest really quickly in time for the war. Perhaps its NK's cunning plan to call up the US and tell them that they're about to test a missile so there's no need to shoot it down. We are so screwed.
    What do you mean by the phrase in bold?
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    BREAKING - North Korea: 'Signs' Nuclear Test Being Prepared


    North Korea is showing "signs" it is preparing to carry out a fourth nuclear test, a South Korean minister has said.

    Amid media reports of increased activity at the North's main atomic test site, Ryoo Kihl-Jae told parliament: "There are such signs."

    The minister declined to comment further.

    The JoongAng Ilbo newspaper said intelligence reports had noted a sharp increase in activity at the Punggye-ri nuclear test site since last week.

    "We are closely monitoring the ongoing situation, which is very similar to the situation seen ahead of the third nuclear test," the newspaper quoted a senior government official as saying.

    "We are trying to figure out whether it is a genuine preparation for a nuclear test or just a ploy to heap more pressure on us and the US," the unnamed official added.

    Intelligence reports also suggest Pyongyang has readied two mid-range missiles on mobile launchers on its east coast.

    More follows...

 
 
 
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