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    (Original post by Adorno)
    To me statements like that are merely emotional libertarian blackmail and should have no place in rational socialist thinking. There is a reason why people smoke and drink when people are poor - that is what we should try to change, not exclaim that taxes on these items should go down because the majority of people who consume them are poor. Attitudes not taxes need to change.
    Heh, i agree with you there. Did want to see your opinion though.

    However, atm increasing taxes and saying it's for deterrence is stupid, the amount of people smoking is going down quite steadily - people are realising that smoking is a waste of money and informative measures have caused this.
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    I have a feeling that taxes have very little effect on alcohol and cigarette consumption, and this is infact why the gov't taxes them so highly (i.e. endless revenue stream). The economic cost of something is only one part of a complex pattern of social forces governing why people do it - look at, say, footbinding in China, which effectively made it impossible for half hte population to work but was carried on for centuries.
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    (Original post by paperclip)
    However, atm increasing taxes and saying it's for deterrence is stupid, the amount of people smoking is going down quite steadily - people are realising that smoking is a waste of money and informative measures have caused this.
    Well ... people have realised that smoking is a waste of money once they're above a certain income bracket but are not rich enough that smoking becomes a lifestyle choice. For many people on low incomes, the suppression of hunger that comes from nicotine addiction is a relatively desirable consequence and because processed foods are cheap enough and bland enough (smoking destroys your sense of taste after all) for them to not notice then those kinds of considerations aren't at all relevant.
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    When I smoked for a little bit it didn't suppress my appetite at all.
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    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    When I smoked for a little bit it didn't suppress my appetite at all.
    My dad was a smoker until a few years ago, he said it himself that he didn't feel as hungry as he does now and he was alot slimmer than he is now.

    There is also medical research into the idea that it makes you less hungry than non-smokers.

    But I think as you say you never experienced this feeling, I think it applies more to people who are addicted to cigarettes.
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    Smoking inhibits the hunger receptors, so it's supposed to make you less hungry. However, if i have a fag when i'm starving i just get more hungry
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    Similar to what I've posted in the Socialists' thread, to what extent do TSR Labour believe the difference between them and the Socialists is down to whether you believe in a regulated and higher-tax market-based economy or a truly planned economy? I ask this after reading a couple of posts from smalltownboy and lotsofsnails:

    (Original post by davireland)
    I could have sworn you were in the Socialist party, so I got a shock when i saw you were in Labour, arent you further left than TSR Labour party?
    (Original post by lotsofsnails)
    Oh no I'm not like mega mega left, I still believe market forces are the best way. I'd just like capitalism to be different to how it is at the moment, for the system to be more compatible with fairness and equality of opportunity.
    (Original post by davireland)
    That surprises me a little cos I thought you were more socialist than most of the Socialists :P.
    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    I don't want to completely control the finances of the people; I believe in a heavily regulated market and high taxation. I don't believe in a planned economy ffs.
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    Similar to what I've posted in the Socialists' thread, to what extent do TSR Labour believe the difference between them and the Socialists is down to whether you believe in a regulated and higher-tax market-based economy or a truly planned economy? I ask this after reading a couple of posts from smalltownboy and lotsofsnails:
    Just a quick note to say I haven't forgotten your question and will get around to answering it.
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    Similar to what I've posted in the Socialists' thread, to what extent do TSR Labour believe the difference between them and the Socialists is down to whether you believe in a regulated and higher-tax market-based economy or a truly planned economy? I ask this after reading a couple of posts from smalltownboy and lotsofsnails:
    I think that we would believe in a more market-based system is one difference, but I think the biggest difference is that we would generally have a more pragmatic approach whereas theirs is more sweeping/idealistic. I'm not being denigrating there that's just my observation, I dunno how else to put it. Bills like their maximum wage bill are the kind of differences we have. We both want more equality and fairness but have different preferred methods of reaching it.
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    (Original post by lotsofsnails)
    I think that we would believe in a more market-based system is one difference, but I think the biggest difference is that we would generally have a more pragmatic approach whereas theirs is more sweeping/idealistic. I'm not being denigrating there that's just my observation, I dunno how else to put it. Bills like their maximum wage bill are the kind of differences we have. We both want more equality and fairness but have different preferred methods of reaching it.
    I think this is definitely true of you, as, for example, your recent post in the Maximum Wage Bill thread shows. Would you say this is true across TSR Labour though? My impression, years ago when I was a member, was that it was still quite idealistic and less practical. If this has changed then I look forward to working with you guys!
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    I think disregarding us as ideological and not pragmatic is to devalue some of our genuinely important and beneficial ideas. Yeh, some of them are radical, but workable. And we do have pragmatists who oppose our more radical bills (*cough*)
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    This has slipped back some pages on our thread, so I'll say it here - broadly, I view the Socialist party as much more accomodating of anti-capitalist/anti-market/left anarchist elements than the Labour Party, where these sorts of people would find it difficult to find a home or a hearing...
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    And needless to say ... I disagree with Alasdair on this one. Anarchists are contrary to the very principles of democratic socialism.
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    I think this is definitely true of you, as, for example, your recent post in the Maximum Wage Bill thread shows. Would you say this is true across TSR Labour though? My impression, years ago when I was a member, was that it was still quite idealistic and less practical. If this has changed then I look forward to working with you guys!
    I think it's worth remembering that a few years ago there was no TSR Socialist Party, so as the only left-wing party, Labour may well have been housing quite a few radical socialists. Over the last couple of years, we have lost notable members to the Socialists and some of the more idealistic members have left us. That isn't to say we have no ambition, but we are taking a more pragmatic approach to real life problems.
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    What do the TSR Labour party think of this move? (slowly making my way through the party question threads a bit )
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    What do you think about the RL Labour party?
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    (Original post by dances with poodles)
    What do the TSR Labour party think of this move? (slowly making my way through the party question threads a bit )
    Personally, it would be stupid to reduce benefits for those who most need them at such a time. I think Brown needs to go. He's doing the RL Labour Party no good and he's become a bit of a scape-goat for the other parties who aren't doing too much better either.
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    (Original post by Afcwimbledon2)
    What do you think about the RL Labour party?
    At the moment, if I could vote, and there was an election, I'd rather not vote than vote for Labour with Brown as leader.

    That's just my opinion though and as always we maintain that TSR Labour and RL Labour have not got the same policies.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    And needless to say ... I disagree with Alasdair on this one. Anarchists are contrary to the very principles of democratic socialism.
    In what ways, exactly? Apart from the rather obvious pro-state/no-state divide?
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    (Original post by sohanshah)
    Personally, it would be stupid to reduce benefits for those who most need them at such a time. I think Brown needs to go. He's doing the RL Labour Party no good and he's become a bit of a scape-goat for the other parties who aren't doing too much better either.
    From my understanding of it it isn't really reducing benefits in the usual fashion. Currently if a tenant receiving housing benefit manages to secure a lower rent payment they get to keep the difference. This would prevent that. (sorry if I read that wrong).
 
 
 
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