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MH17 flight down in Ukraine Watch

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    (Original post by AlexKay99)
    Alright, its possible but they don't generally fly at such high altitudes?
    The military plane they shot down was coming in for landing so my example doesn't really apply, so my apologies. I would assume that military transports would fly equally as high as passenger planes (maybe a little lower to avoid collisions) to avoid the possibility of missile lock.

    EDIT: I'm no pilot so I may be completely wrong in my assumptions.
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    (Original post by AlexKay99)
    Alright, its possible but they don't generally fly at such high altitudes?
    Well the AN 26 was flying at 6000 when it got shot down.

    MH17 is 10000 metres.

    The operator would need to know the service ceiling of an AN to distinguish the two.
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    (Original post by Monsieur Gamma)
    What? ... dude America funding the Mujahadeen to get rid of Russia during the Afghani war was YEARS ago ... this is NOW, after numerous amounts of peace treaties and the UN.

    The only thing the USA is doing now is sanctioning Russia.
    And so you are saying that, since then, the USA has NEVER done it and the Russians have consistently done it?
    Any proof?
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well the AN 26 was flying at 6000 when it got shot down.

    MH17 is 10000 metres.

    The operator would need to know the service ceiling of an AN to distinguish the two.
    I suspected so. Even though it was (as I'm told) landing. Military planes generally fly low because it is their function.
    I mean, there is no way of knowing what the operator knew but I figure if he knows how to operate a BUK then he probably could distinguish between jets. I could be wrong.
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    (Original post by AlexKay99)
    I just heard some info that the video/call which allegedly shows two separatists discuss the crash was created on the 16th BEFORE it even happened
    ye thats why they quickly deleted it, it clearly had the date on. someone wants a war.
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    The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) released recordings of intercepted phone calls between "terrorists":

    “Greek”: Well, what do you have there?
    “Major”: In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.
    “Greek”: Are many people there?
    “Major”: Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).
    “Greek”: What kind of aircraft?
    “Major”: I haven’t ascertained this. I haven’t been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.
    “Greek”: Is there anything left of the weapon?
    “Major”: Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.
    “Greek”: Are there documents?
    “Major”: Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.
    Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It’s a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this. They say on TV it’s AN-26 transport plane, but they say it’s written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine’s territory?
    Nikolay Kozitsin (a Cossack commander): That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on.
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    (Original post by interact)
    ye thats why they quickly deleted it, it clearly had the date on. someone wants a war.
    Its horrifying.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And so you are saying that, since then, the USA has NEVER done it and the Russians have consistently done it?
    Any proof?
    Urgh. End of conversation, this ain't going anywhere.
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    (Original post by Monsieur Gamma)
    Urgh. End of conversation, this ain't going anywhere.
    So, you can't?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Some of the Russian people appear to have descended into a sort of routine of thuggery and viciousness, as can be seen in many cases amongst the separatists and their military supporters. (People like this already have a long and barbaric track record in places like Chechnya.) I am sure though that the majority of Russian people are decent and humane. This is about their government, a singularly corrupt one, which has captured the reigns of power through deceit and trickery and false promises.

    We need to stop dealing with Putin as if he is some normal political leader. He clearly and absurdly obviously isn't.
    It's a difficult and thorny issue. We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

    Corruption is not limited to Russia though and in the west, we all know power is firmly rooted with the owners of multi-billion dollar global enterprise and media moguls. Unlike Putin, for the most part, they can hide from the public gaze. Doesn't make them any less corrupt or culpable on the scale of human suffering and misery though.

    And governments on both sides will certainly capitalise on current events to justify immediate and future defence expenditure etc.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The Russian state has just killed 9 of our citizens and over 80 children from around the world, as well as scores of leading academics.

    I'm not sure how we should react to this, but I'm quite certain that Europe shouldn't be trading with Russia any more. We shouldn't be accommodating their tax exiles in luxury in London and we shouldn't be encouraging them with international sporting events and other signs of respectability.

    They have become a rogue and terrorist state and should be treated as such.
    I feel that you are coming at Russia from a very strong bias remember that there is more than one side to this story.
    1) You want Europe to stop trading with Russia but that wouldn't just shatter the Russian economy it would also harm Europe due to our strong dependency on their natural gas and other trade agreements.
    2) I would like to refer you to a few articles to read just so that you can maybe understand the Russian side. This was written by an AMERICAN professor so please don't dismiss it as 'Russian propaganda'.
    http://www.thenation.com/article/180...evs-atrocities
    http://www.thenation.com/article/179...without-debate
    There are some other interesting articles on there if you are interested.
    3) Just an interesting fact, the current anti-terror campaign that is under way by the Kiev authorities, which calls its own people terrorists and uses it as an excuse for killing innocent women and children as well as armed rebels is unacceptable. Did you know that Abraham Lincoln never called his own people terrorists during the Civil war, he referred to them as "My fellow Americans" and yet this government is calling its OWN citizens terrorists. Make of that what you will.


    finally I would like you to remember that the world isn't black and white as the media wants you to believe, there is no good and evil side, and I would remind you that EVERY state and every country has committed atrocities in its history and many countries continue to do so, lets hear the other side out first before branding them as rouge terrorist states currently the UK and the USA remind me of a book I read once called '1984', so not every country is wholly good or evil.


    RIP to all those on board flight MH17, lets hope that the crisis in Ukraine doesn't escalate further and that ALL sides reach a peaceful agreement.
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    I honestly don't understand the position of the Obama administration in this whole crisis.
    I mean i understand the involvement of the USA and what they want from Ukraine but who put these warmongers in power?
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    (Original post by Monsieur Gamma)
    The only thing the USA is doing now is sanctioning Russia.
    I doubt that. The US is at the very least supplying weaponry to Israel and probably a whole host of other groups


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    (Original post by Petrue)
    The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) released recordings of intercepted phone calls between "terrorists":

    “Greek”: Well, what do you have there?
    “Major”: In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.
    “Greek”: Are many people there?
    “Major”: Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).
    “Greek”: What kind of aircraft?
    “Major”: I haven’t ascertained this. I haven’t been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.
    “Greek”: Is there anything left of the weapon?
    “Major”: Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.
    “Greek”: Are there documents?
    “Major”: Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.
    Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It’s a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this. They say on TV it’s AN-26 transport plane, but they say it’s written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine’s territory?
    Nikolay Kozitsin (a Cossack commander): That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on.
    "They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on" He has a point.

    This was actually quickly deleted because it was shown to be made on the 16th, BEFORE the crash. (I think it was this call)

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    Just out of interest, how many of you actually believe what you hear on the news? be it BBC, the guardian, CNN, RT or whatever.
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    (Original post by AlexKay99)
    I suspected so. Even though it was (as I'm told) landing. Military planes generally fly low because it is their function.
    I mean, there is no way of knowing what the operator knew but I figure if he knows how to operate a BUK then he probably could distinguish between jets. I could be wrong.
    Well. The BUK can automatically lock onto targets for the operator to fire at. So if it was an inexperienced Russian rebel then I think it is possible.

    Also, aircraft can operate above their service ceiling so it really isn't a hard rule.
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    (Original post by AlexKay99)
    "They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on" He has a point.

    This was actually quickly deleted because it was shown to be made on the 16th, BEFORE the crash. (I think it was this call)

    According to who.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    According to who.
    According to a few news outlets who reported that someone already determined, using a computer program that it was made on the 16th. I just heard it on the news.
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    (Original post by AlexKay99)
    According to a few news outlets who reported that someone already determined, using a computer program that it was made on the 16th. I just heard it on the news.
    Ok. So name a news outlet then.
 
 
 
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